bajada Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Good evening, I purchased a Gibson Hummingbird at the Chicago Music Exchange back in 2008 and am trying to figure out its origin & value. I believe it's a 1963, and it's absolutely stunning. It has a 6 digit serial number (121867) and it says "Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA" on the sticker inside. Can't find this number using the Guitar Dater Project website.Any help and/or evaluations are welcome.Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Well I think the number dates to 1963. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malstewart Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I have a 2009 version of this guitar, it’s far and away the best acoustic guitar I have ever owned, the sound is fantastic . I don’t know enough about the PA system but I suspect the issue may not be the guitar at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Malstew - possibly your reply was for another thread? Maybe the Songwriter Deluxe Studio Feedback issue one ? Baja - value ? Prices have gone up substantially in the past year or two. Go to REVERB and search for your model, era. Look at recent sales for the best indication, not asking prices on ones that haven't sold. Condition is a subjective but important variable. G'Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Is it a label like this? They also used the 100,000 series in the early 70s, and this label is from that era. It would not have been used prior to about 1970. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) What did CME tell you? By 2008 it was not all that difficult to find such things out. If nothing ese the "Fabulous Flat-top Guitars" book which provides info on serial numbers had been in print since 1994. Easy enough to figure out though. If it is NOT stamped "Made in the USA" underneath the serial number it tells you the guitar rolled out of Kalamazoo before 1970. And everything I have seen places that serial number without the added country of origin stamp as 1963. Edited June 30, 2022 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajada Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 Here is a photo of it. I'll definitely check Reverb. But I haven't found one with these colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajada Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 ksdaddy : the label isn't like that...here is a photo of the serial number inside (I posted a link to a photo seeing as I can't seem to file drop it in this thread)https://ibb.co/nLsHXg1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajada Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, zombywoof said: What did CME tell you? By 2008 it was not all that difficult to find such things out. If nothing ese the "Fabulous Flat-top Guitars" book which provides info on serial numbers had been in print since 1994. Easy enough to figure out though. If it is NOT stamped "Made in the USA" underneath the serial number it tells you the guitar rolled out of Kalamazoo before 1970. And everything I have seen places that serial number without the added country of origin stamp as 1963. I don't remember much from what they said, other than it was a 1963 and that they had just finished getting it ready for the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I dont know if the early Birds came in a dark burst. I do remember my 61 have a light cherry burst. nice Bird you have though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, bajada said: I don't remember much from what they said, other than it was a 1963 and that they had just finished getting it ready for the floor. The label looks like the one on my '79 Dove.... not sure they used that label in 1963. Could it be made between 1970 - 1975? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Does the back of the headstock have "Made In USA" stamped in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, DanvillRob said: The label looks like the one on my '79 Dove.... not sure they used that label in 1963. Could it be made between 1970 - 1975? That looks like the correct label. Note there is no "union made" on it. But I also would expect a cherry burst. And as I noted above the OP should see it there is a "Made in the USA" stamp beneath the serial number. It obviously will not be there on a guitar built in 1963. Edited June 30, 2022 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Looking at your photo is that a plastic bridge? If so, I want to say the only year Gibson slapped those on HBs was 1963. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Just now, zombywoof said: That looks like the correct label. Note there is no "union made" on it. But I also would expect a cherry burst. And as I noted above the OP should see it there is a "Made in the USA" stamp beneath the serial number. It obviously will not be there on a guitar built in 1963. ZW, I've heard the "Union Made" topic come up before, but not sure of just what it means. We know the "Made In USA" started in 1970 with a few earlier guitars also having it....but none after 1970 that didn't have it, (I think)....so if it's there, we can rule out 1963. The serial numbers between 1970 and 1975 also started with a "1", I think, and were 6-digits, (but maybe had an "S" at the end?). Like most on here...not sure I have EVER seen a 'tobacco-burst' 'Bird! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, DanvillRob said: ZW, I've heard the "Union Made" topic come up before, but not sure of just what it means. We know the "Made In USA" started in 1970 with a few earlier guitars also having it....but none after 1970 that didn't have it, (I think)....so if it's there, we can rule out 1963. The serial numbers between 1970 and 1975 also started with a "1", I think, and were 6-digits, (but maybe had an "S" at the end?). Like most on here...not sure I have EVER seen a 'tobacco-burst' 'Bird! The label looks like that which is in my wife's 1960 J200 While I am far from a wiz kid when it comes to 1960s Gibsons, I believe Gibson went with labels stamped "union made" from around 1965 to 1969. But I also want to say their use in acoustics was not all that consistent so you will run into guitars for at least some of those years both with and without that union made stamp on the label. Best guess is Gibson was not about to go with the new labels until their supply of existing labels was used up. These labels though caused some confusion regarding the first offshore built Epiphones as in 1970 Gibson sent a bunch of leftover Kalamazoo Epi union made labels to Japan. The burst though makes me wonder if that guitar has been refinished as I have only ever seen '63 HBs with the cherry burst or a natural top. Does not mean they do not exist. Only that in some 50 years I have never run across one. Edited June 30, 2022 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 That label is the same as my 62. Measure the angle of the headstock. 13 degrees -- pre mid 1965 17 degrees -- post mid 1965 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 23 hours ago, slimt said: Well I think the number dates to 1963. Yes, not only the number points toward 1963 - so does the plastic bridge. The most controversial concept in acoustic guitar history. Hope you like the sound, bajada - I purchased a 1963 J-45 in 2017 with that same plast/ceramic combo and I lOVE it. Also have a 63 Southern Jumbo. Exactly the same burst as yours. Welcome to the Forum and enjoy your old square Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajada Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 7 hours ago, zombywoof said: Looking at your photo is that a plastic bridge? If so, I want to say the only year Gibson slapped those on HBs was 1963. I believe so, I'm no expert. So does anyone know how much she is worth? Should I be getting an appraisal? The "tobacco-burst" rarity seems quite exciting. That photo is quite low resolution, but it is a gorgeous piece of instrument and sounds exquisite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajada Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 minute ago, E-minor7 said: Yes, not only the number points toward 1963 - so does the plastic bridge. The most controversial concept in acoustic guitar history. Hope you like the sound, bajada - I purchased a 1963 J-45 in 2017 with that same plast/ceramic combo and I lOVE it. Also have a 63 Southern Jumbo. Exactly the same burst as yours. Welcome to the Forum and enjoy your old square Thanks friend. I love the guitar. But still have no idea how much it's worth. I see old Hummingbirds ranging from 5k to 23k... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 56 minutes ago, bajada said: Thanks friend. I love the guitar. But still have no idea how much it's worth. I see old Hummingbirds ranging from 5k to 23k... Well, only one thing to do then = Search the market and place yourself where it's reasonable. The plastic bridge may or may not have influence, probably will. Dings, repaired cracks, loose braces/bindings, fretboard craters, state of frets, state of bridge-plate etc. all play in. Start at the Bay, Reverb and Gbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 6 hours ago, bajada said: to 23k... That's Sal money, right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 "Thanks friend. I love the guitar. But still have no idea how much it's worth. I see old Hummingbirds ranging from 5k to 23k..." Baja - you can get an appraisal as you are considering - but I'm guessing you've learned here 95% of what you might get from one. If you've put together a large sample of 63 H'Birds with prices, focus only on those in the same condition ('Excellent, Very Good' ?) yours is in. Throw out the highs and the lows and take an average of those in the middle of the Bell Curve. I'd doubt it's 'worth' more than $10K, based on a quick search on Reverb. But, as you know, what it's 'worth' to you is what you can get just ONE person to pay for it - IE. what it's 'worth' to them. Unless you plan on selling it, what it's worth is moot. You can insure it for whatever you want - but in the event of a loss, the insurance company will not pay based on exquisite sound, sentimental value, or even what we say here. You'll be at the mercy of a Claims Adjuster who doesn't know squat about guitars. If you're thinking of selling in a market that's going up regularly, just list it on the high end and wait for someone to agree with your price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, E-minor7 said: Also have a 63 Southern Jumbo. Exactly the same burst as yours. Welcome to the Forum and enjoy your old square But how many cherryburst Southerner Jumbos have you seen? Point is the tobacco burst remained standard on the SJ. Not so the HB. Unless the finish was a special order or the wrong burst mistakenly shot and quickly caught, I would expect there to have been at least a run of them. But because of the oddity, the first thing I would have been asking CME was "is the finish original." And not being the trusting type I still might have gone over the guitar with a light and inspection mirror looking for any tell take signs that might clue me in on the guitar's back story. A luthier I know once determined a guitar had lost is original burst decades earlier when he found some remnants of it along the fingerboard extension as well as a bit of overspray hidden underneath a lot of dirt. I am not saying if all was not as it should have been I would have walked away from the guitar. But I would expect one heck of a discounted asking price. So again, when it comes to establishing value (which is not to be confused with playability and sound) it would be best to have a trained eye go over the guitar. And on another note, where are those folks willing to shell out $23K on a Hummingbird when I need them. Edited July 1, 2022 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 I think you all have figured it out, (save the finish issue). I fear bajada asked for the time, and we've told him hot to build a watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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