JRabb78 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I know you guys get this question ALL the time. I have an old Gibson 12 string acoustic guitar that belonged to my uncle. It was his very favorite possession in this world. When he died in 1979 my mother kept his guitar and has had it all these years since until this year she decided that I should have it and keep it and one day pass it along to my kids. Anyway the unique features of this guitar are: The headstock has a mother of pearl inlay that reads "The Gibson" the lettering is slanted. Also, inlayed is a large Fleur-de-lis on the headstock. The tuning keys are gold colored (fading now) Grover keys. The fret inlays are all what I believe they call clamshell, kinda flat on bottom and rounded on top. The fretboard is rosewood. This guitar has a tortoise shell looking pickguard which also has a Fleur-de-lis inlayed on it. I really don't know how to describe the rest of this guitar other than its very large even for an acoustic, but then again every 12-string I've ever seen was a good sized instrument. The serial number was stamped or inked on the back of the headstock and is extremely difficult to read, but as best I can tell it is "950084" right under the serial # are the words "Made in the USA" this also looks to have been ink stamped as it is nearly impossible to read. Directly under that is what appears to me to be initials added after the fact since they are actually scibed or punched into the headstock, "L.G.N." I have 4 not so great pictures of this guitar and I will try to add them to this post, but in case I can't figure out how just let me know and I will gladly look for any markings or email pictures etc. if it will help me figure out what this guitar actually is. I really appreciate any help any of you can give. Thank you. Hope that works.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 It's got an SJ body. SJ200-12? maybe. That's just a GUESS at a model number. Nifty heir loom. How's the action? i.e. how high are the strings above the fingerboard. Take a measurement at the 12th fret, or take a profile close-up of that area.. When was the last time it was played? Just curious, does anyone know what that cigarette sized box is on the case lid at the button end? Padding? humidifier? I've never seen the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 According to the 'Fabulous" book there was an Artist 12 made in 1970 and it roughly matches this, but only in the jumbo body and 12 fret neck; otherwise it's nowhere near. The headstock is stamped "BGN" which means it was either so severely screwed up (probably not the case here) that it got sold to an employee (which was the fate of 'BGN' guitars).... OR since it was an oddball model to begin with, an employee might have completed a set-aside unfinished guitar. That would readily explain the lack of serial number and some of the odd features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Wow! Whatever else that may be it sure is a great looking old 12-string! Looks like a great piece of Brazilian on the back, which, as I understand, began to disappear from production instruments in the late 60's. Unusual pickguard for a Gibson........rosewood also? Very cool piece from the look of it! Going by just the serial number it could be from 1968. I know the stamped (impressed) Made In USA began in 1972........don't know about such a mark being inked on. Set that beauty up and play it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Have you tried contacting Gibson in Bozeman directly? That is where they are currently making the acoustics and know the most about them. My guess is someone there will be able to fill you in. Maybe it is some kind of custom shop model. Was your Uncle a performer? Whatever it is, I agree with everyone else, get it setup and looked at by a good luthier/tech (Please not someone at a Guitar Center or the like) and then play it. What a great gift! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Have you tried contacting Gibson in Bozeman directly? That is where they are currently making the acoustics and know the most about them. My guess is someone there will be able to fill you in. Maybe it is some kind of custom shop model. Was your Uncle a performer? Whatever it is' date=' I agree with everyone else, get it setup and looked at by a good luthier/tech (Please not someone at a Guitar Center or the like) and then play it. What a great gift! [/quote'] That's sound advice. Call Montana. I've never seen one of those. But she's incredible. Priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert plays a SG? Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Woooooooooooooooooow!!! Call Gibson. They'll tell you! I think it is from the sixties also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Adj. bridge marks it out as being mid '60s-early '70s. The rest marks it out as being the most godforsakenly stunning 12 string I have ever seen. My jaw is literally on the floor. How beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRabb78 Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Wow! all of you guys are great. I guess I should have clarified a few things first, unfortunately the bridge on this guitar seems to be loosened over the years and when/if you were to tune it up it would bow the front of the guitar and fully crack the front face, body of the guitar. Apparently this has already happened and caused two cracks approx 3 inches long above and below the bridge. Since in my possession I have not tried to tune it for fear of damaging it further. The reason I started looking into its origins was to hopefully have it repaired/restored at some point so that maybe I could play it again. I played this guitar once when I was a teenager (prior to the bridge issue) and remember it being the most full sounding guitar I had ever played. I am not a great guitar player, but I do enjoy playing. At any rate thank you all for the advice. I have already sent an email to gibson directly inquiring about the specifics and haven't heard back from them yet. Does anyone know where to get the number to speak to someone direct? As for the questions the cigarette pack sized box on the case lid appears to be just padding. Very interesting information about the "BGN" stamped in the back. Mine appears to say "LGN". do you think the remainder of the "B" was just not completely stamped? I have included another picture where u can almost make out the serial if you look hard above the LGN (or BGN). I am not sure about the wood on the back though it has a unique stripe inlay that looks really cool. I'm not sure about the pickguard wood either. As for it being a custom, it may well be, it does have a custom plate on the neck but I guess it could have been added at any time. My uncle was a performer, not professionally but maybe coffee shops or something like that. By all accounts (family) he was pretty good, he played several instruments. I've added a few more photos. I am going to find a number and call directly. I appreciate the help and we'll see what they say it is. Thanks for the enthusiastic replys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Wow im amazed...you know gibson restores guitar as well...http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/ProductSpotlight/RepairAndRestoration/ Go to that link if you want the best repair/restoration for your guitar dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 What a terrific find! The issues of which you speak sound fairly easy for a good luthier to fix (the loose bridge and top cracks). They would undoubtedly check for brace integrity as well. Once it is fixed, it should sound glorious. Lovely instrument. PS: Please snip off all those loose string ends past the tuners. They could scratch the guitar or put an eye out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I second Drath, the top and bridge issues should be easy for a skilled luthier to remedy. If the top cracks are too severe you could always have the guitar re-topped with a nice Adirondack table treated with aging toner...if done right, you'd never notice the difference aesthetically, and you'd have a top built, braced and thickness-sanded to modern specs and thus less likely to give bellying or cracking probs in the future. If you were going that way I'd have the adj. bridge replaced with bone, too. That would give you an incredible player of a guitar, and something that will still be playable and sound amazing in 50yrs time. Having said that, that is only one school of thought. Of course you may well want to keep it as original as possible, have the cracks cleated and the braces repaired to sort out the top belly, and have a light resto job done. Can anybody chime in on the value of a one-off, BGN stamped late '60s J200-12? This could be the deciding factor. It could be said, though, that as a player and performer, your uncle may well have chosen, at this point, to go for a full restoration in order to bring that beauty back to life and get it singing once again. I just can't stop looking at the pics. It is quite possibly the most beautiful guitar I have ever seen. Those clamshell fretboard inlays are very reminiscent of those found on the glorious '60s Epiphone Excellentes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Those clamshell fretboard inlays are very reminiscent of those found on the glorious '60s Epiphone Excellentes. I'm tellin' ya its an employee-finished guitar. That explains all non-std parts and inlays. It was unfinished and an employee finished it "his way". After he/she finished it, it could have been sold or traded or given away with no record anywhere. My time machine doesn't want to start this morning, but if it would spark up I'd prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-200 Koa Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Gotta go with ksdaddy on this one. The inlays look a bit out of place... more like Epiphone. I would venture to guess it is a employee reclamation or restoration project. Way cool regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanfender Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 What a great guitar. It needs some love but if you give it, you will definitely receive it back. Please keep us up-to-date about information from Gibson and repair progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Foote Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 FYI ... the best luthier I have ever seen for repairs is Randy Hughes, at Hughes Stringed Instruments. He showed me a Brazilian Rosewood guitar he had just finished yesterday. The owner shipped the guitar to Randy from Rio de Janeiro, and is currently flying up to pick up the instrument. The guitar had been dropped dead center on the bottom, which drove the end block up into the guitar, and caused the sides to shatter. Randy said that the right side was so badly damaged the wood looked like fingers. The left side had split half-way up, and the binding had come off. Afterwards ... I could not, under close examination, even begin to tell where the repairs had been done. Randy encouraged me to take a light and a magnifying glass to examine the inside, and I could not detect the repair, not matter how hard I looked. Even the kerfling was perfect (including internal stains, to stay with the age and condition of the guitar) ... it was as if the damage had never occurred at all. I can't begin to tell you how impressed I am with Randy's skill. He often takes on repairs that other luthiers would immediately dismiss, and it keeps him incredibly busy ... but he still spends all the time that is necessary to do the job right. That's his motto. I teased him about how no one could find his shop on the Web, and that my new GPS (which was up-to-date with current maps) still left me about 100 yards shy of his address. He explained that his website is still under construction (the tech/friend building it has some personal issues that are complicating matters), and that it was alright that his address is a bit hard to locate, since he is already so extraordinarily busy! But hey ... regardless, this man is a gem, and his work is absolutely amazing, so I couldn't resist the urge to pass on this information about him. If any one could repair this guitar, Randy is the guy. He just finished installing new rosewood bridge pins w/pearl tops for me, and a LR Baggs Dual Source. I've never heard anything better from an acoustic with a small setup. I am truly blessed that he is fifteen minutes from my house. Contact him ... you won't regret it. Hughes Stringed Instruments LLC Randy Hughes 44 Witch Hazel Way Fairview, NC 28730 (828) 628-9777 hughesrkmw@aol.com P.S. He also the authorized Gibson repair technician in my area. He's not exactly in your backyard, but if a man can ship a guitar from Brazil to Randy, shipping from Louisiana to North Carolina doesn't sound out of the question, IMHO. ... JT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Those fret inlays are called 'cloud inlays' in some books and Gibson did use them on some special models including some archtops. That goes for the fleur-de-lis inlays as well. "The Gibson" on the headstock - man that seems like a Gibson mandolin thing. And 12 clear frets is kind of unusual. ksdaddy might be right. At any rate, thanks for posting the pics - it's a beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Just curious... It could be the achille's heel of this guit tar is the top may not have been designed as a 12 stringer. Does anyone know what the inside bracing of a 12 string should look like? Is it more, bigger bracing and / or a thicker bridge plate? This would be an ineresting rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Just curious... It could be the achille's heel of this guit tar is the top may not have been designed as a 12 stringer. Does anyone know what the inside bracing of a 12 string should look like? Is it more' date=' bigger bracing and / or a thicker bridge plate? This would be an ineresting rebuild. [/quote'] I don't know about the bracing but since it is a 12 fret model the top won't have the same kind of tension pattern as if it were a 14 fret. The bridge is in a different place on the top. I bet it is a cannon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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