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Is it possible . . .


G Man

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 . . . that the sides on my '53 J50 are laminate?  I ask because there is a bubble in the wood down near the end pin that when I press it I can feel it hitting what feels like another layer of wood.    Doesn't concern me either way, just wondering if this is a documented thing.

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58 minutes ago, G Man said:

 . . . that the sides on my '53 J50 are laminate?  I ask because there is a bubble in the wood down near the end pin that when I press it I can feel it hitting what feels like another layer of wood.    Doesn't concern me either way, just wondering if this is a documented thing.

Isn't there a block of wood by the end pin which is where the hole for the end pin is and adds support? The sides come over it and is glued to it. Maybe its delaminating. 

Edited by Sgt. Pepper
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Gibson, of course, had been building guitars with a laminate back and rim since the 1930s.  But at least prior to the 1960s I have never even heard of anything but maple laminate being used.  The early-1950s though was transition period.  Between 1951 and 1953 the builds got heavier while design aspects such as the side supports and tapered headstocks disappeared.   I have read or heard though they may have also started experimenting with laminate sides on the J45/50.  Whether this was based on surviving examples or pure speculation who knows.  Book learning has never been the best way to go about getting a handle on Kalamazoo-built Gibsons.  Anway, maybe your guitar is the proof that Gibson did turn out J45s with a laminate rim.  Or maybe not.

Edited by zombywoof
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The guitar sounds phenomenal, so its construction doesn't bother me in the least.  The bubble is too far away from the end block to have that be the resistance I'm feeling.  I'll try to capture it in pics next week, out of town for the weekend right now.

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9 hours ago, G Man said:

The guitar sounds phenomenal, so its construction doesn't bother me in the least.  The bubble is too far away from the end block to have that be the resistance I'm feeling.  I'll try to capture it in pics next week, out of town for the weekend right now.

Look forward to zoom in on this issue 👍

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Tried to grab a picture of the bubble this morning, but its really hard to capture, surprise surprise.  Anyway, here's my first attempt, I'll try to get a better shot after work today.  You can kinda make out the "bubble" in the bent light/shadow in the wood.

xLSd7eDeJf0DVo_heEcqBHvVBX75EdamcIiPzWHY9KEj8PcCY4dpIuE13gnFhRmxeapBG2PF-H8Hys_MYp8Jdd9HZGxFlq5k8STSgv71JPoMFGhRUGpZzhPZsNaaUJgUVybd59NDvgWHSaTEU_OsjkbhgIy4VTlX_q08x70xe69dglvZApIK7eiLNU_N3Y19lZ5XXxnq1RUGjs7QK4OZAghjy5EqGhJipdcZ08R738APp-3B4OPjk0CR98f_RlLP_U6MZeLDCdIe7LFOC0IDPPbQC4jSP2YpzNsW1KbvvU8lf7WsQE38DXPCk5MxBVJ_hIClwZcut25-ue4_ye7HvThDrad_7bjDutICgvN19EXCw7ZKSEWbV1iHGf6pRVXKk-Ny8O7B6_4arskEKUg-rbYI87gcrHyuPTqTl0VzId3IAtTLF0RG-xhOqUvvaPKxSxoMD6TgEQ07ExY4xclIMDryjyK4jhw7BKeWva7Bp2Am7-mYTnFsJ7LtGkq03JJP9De4daMJjxWoi5tPAWi5hcasyOQsgIR4SDjv1TvL6zGI06YMm5Knkw-Wm-77kpXv3bV22Q3UFH8nCvsgJChRRpu6ZQVOtyxeIDkc5YZBSPkgfFniwS_ZGThrKBx2HxCIl_CxcBx-0IB3XkYi9EGjhQDN3eLwiQ79FfIdIfUImUQnU8Iw7GQE4wvzZFD2iBLQtX7wKTganruijR9H01rLt-hcmJkmw-cADGYfhkDCj7SDKMbAFHB6AtmE1Ie25e2yNIJ3AAIm0vjZRS8X9pYkmzHIeUwKjBKVHvTOwgzm5iA8i7L8prL4-s72WQuERcsinnrGYt1qpeUR7HjeUo9Dmhz8zJ2-9MrerQjmxYIbSvth9lFxD3Gy4Ct_BcPJbi5_3UXjIvOLz-7v4kJLixY79D6g4ArKN8oCa_IsOJt1EFiT=w500-h1058-s-no?authuser=0pzBPY4CLHhKBHpHHQkS8233aQkiGC7axYA01VypTPojp-BOA_eHHohn5MRMi519F9CQEZBeUzolIGjekZPQmTTX-bYr10aLKTmRWmB3oWPdh_Iom_M9WulQfJtGTQi0gytImyCRN5tnvQlKuWBAV5lGVPBEgpqxQBln-1T_s4DlEtSwYWyp9nsgaB0Znttmy0_IOtZfIqxriSVi4IAyU_vQwN25VWylQ1gPXUS3_HhX9UcAFPuB-yQktDIkmtmbkQzEIWvzHTmYtU9O0N8gMb2Uo2mR5cxClH3xe6zrgdhD8Cdds6SGctMT6fV_gWZoRP3XrW-GWl7WkwXJkaqVkeu1g9Nyaa21HHutWeMSZDZiKLScFBrjAEBmth6lBYzesJsiKAkTFgAvyGj0bUY3vlhb_uoRFpxp7fOp6w55l3AzV5n5Fw_CA7tN9NQ04l6jGwIFI9TyEuwQthq3kCeuS6vSefRpopsVz6tukv4YImHmkn6UuvgNuTZ7smAz4qqabWHWFmIgAfUHbczZ5wyZPJXEzMiIpLsacQb8DTbX_ODB4a8rwNIkJn3cPwXx6B7LzD8Qu2wRtdOFg2CBkYWL6KsC0YEdLom3tqwksL1kAnuwyh4mNUw1k738g4LhHe8qw9RrVoFDUkgXI7fZWPxgXQ0s0fN_z_NREF2s6DsYfp5-H0XIEq6AfifEcX8rZ1n1h2F7VAQ0MdESM_AgA_h_Dk5LX1jNwzXEqMnLSU4h4Cxd1W84X7TtXlELhE_RQXmkP9IRSzKNx7B2sPQbzPHwakoP8PMGaKu2-ITQ_fqsNCsjFiGT2z6fRjz6pA0NXQzyBOe_PLp74JrRwTK3wHChEPvLgZGnV82BXVbEWcbAOqQczbo6GMbaB8VkDRZhVpz-IlrfoVEJDtmmqQxv0LRhsu_L2xRJU1kB25UQnn0yrhi8v=w1920-h909-s-no?authuser=0

 

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The photos are visible on my computer. The bubble can be seen - according to my interpretation, you can clearly see the warping of the reflection of the frame of the picture hanging on the wall.
But how can a solid frame form such a bump? It's not easy to explain even with a frame made of plywood, since the bubble would have to be very thin, being made of only one or a few layers of wood or veneer.

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As mentioned earlier, when I gently push on that bump, I can feel it bottom out against the next layers of wood, there is resistance.  I'm going with a laminate side, otherwise I shouldn't feel any resistance when pushing on the bubble.

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3 hours ago, docr said:

The photos are visible on my computer. The bubble can be seen - according to my interpretation, you can clearly see the warping of the reflection of the frame of the picture hanging on the wall.
But how can a solid frame form such a bump? It's not easy to explain even with a frame made of plywood, since the bubble would have to be very thin, being made of only one or a few layers of wood or veneer.

Gibson did not build with "plywoood" meaning some cheap filler wood like poplar sandwiched in between two layers of a nice veneer.  They made their own laminate which was even slices of the same wood glued together.  Personally, I have never got why more builders do not go with a laminate rim which increases the natural stiffness the curves give the sides.

Edited by zombywoof
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2 hours ago, G Man said:

And being a 53, the first year without the side support straps, (or whatever they are called,) it would make sense if they experimented with laminated sides for strength. 

My understanding is those fabric and wood side supports were used to help prevent the rim from splitting under the pressure of having the top and back attached.  The only two models I can think of which continued to sport that feature after 1953 were the J200 and CF100.

Specs though did not change at the stroke of midnight of any given year.  My take on it is these features disappeared gradually between 1951 and 1953.  But I have never seen them on a guitar built from 1953 on.  Does not mean that this or that feature could not still be found.  Just that I have never seen them.  With Kalamazoo-made Gibsons it is best to never to say never.

Edited by zombywoof
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