dc3c46 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 What is torture and what is not? What do you think about the controversy of "torturing" terrorists? What should me the means of getting information out of terrorists in order to prevent future attacks on us? Do terrorists deserve to be treated with velvet gloves? How should we deal with scum who want to kill us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 One big problem with "enhabced interogation" is that you don't get good information. The ones being tortured will say what thwy need to to stop the torture. Ask John McCain. Another problem is that the torturing is used effectively by our "enemies" as a recruiting tool. They can foment hate towards the US by pointing out the fact that we torture. It doesn't seem worth becoming a human rights criminal for those two reasons alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowdiddley Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 When it comes to a KNOWN terrorist, imho there should be no limits to gather information that may provide beneficial. After we obtain all info from them run them through a chipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 One big problem with "enhabced interogation" is that you don't get good information. The ones being tortured will say what thwy need to to stop the torture. Ask John McCain. Another problem is that the torturing is used effectively by our "enemies" as a recruiting tool. They can foment hate towards the US by pointing out the fact that we torture. It doesn't seem worth becoming a human rights criminal for those two reasons alone. It is public record that the enhanced interrogation techniques worked on at least two occasions and were responsible for getting information used to stop imminent threats. It seems to me, that torture would be things like: Burning Pulling fingernails out Electric shock forced drugs Beatings Hangings Bone breaking etc. These are the things that the islamofacists do to their enemy as well as raping and beheading, which seem pretty torturous. It doesn't seem to me, that waterboarding (however scary it must be) or being forced into uncomfortable (but essentially harmless) positions, or the application of loud music and uncomfortable temperatures, should really be called torture. Past US Administrations have used these techniques with no threat of lawsuit or criminal action. These techniques may be rough, scary and a little bit shocking, but I have a hard time believing that the US government would be in the process of "torturing" people just for the hell of it...The intelligence analysts must see some value in the techniques being used or they wouldn't all have been doing it. Remember, the Congress passed a new law in 2006 that prohibits the use of Waterboarding and some of the other techniques, and there is NO evidence that the US government continued those practices after they were outlawed. Since the techniques were only explicitly outlawed in 2006, they must not have been illegal prior to 2006. What kills me, is that the ship (America) is on fire and threatening to sink...and Obama and the rest of his lib cohorts want to pursue the past administration's policy and decision making as if it was criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callen3615 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Well when our troops get captured, they are decapitated. We put them in a box with a caterpillar and we violated its rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callen3615 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 How many lives do you think were saved from that????? Id say hundreds, or thousands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumpkin Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 The same way they treat us' date=' should be the same way to treat them. This also goes with criminals in the US; too many times the rights of the victim has been denied because of the rights of the accused. Poor poor little murderers and rapist, I often wonder if they were thinking cruel and unusual punishment when they were committing their crime. But all too often its those who are given the easy way out and not held accountable for their actions of murder and raping. Whats the purpose of having a death penalty if the person on death row dies of old age?[/quote'] :- put in an express lane to the death chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 If you're after revenge, torture fulfills that need. As far as the info obtain on the two aforementioned cases, the information was insignificant as far as stopping any real terror threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagabond Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 It is public record that the enhanced interrogation techniques worked on at least two occasions and were responsible for getting information used to stop imminent threats. It seems to me' date=' that torture would be things like: What kills me, is that the ship (America) is on fire and threatening to sink...and Obama and the rest of his lib cohorts want to pursue the past administration's policy and decision making as if it was criminal. [/quote'] 1) says who 2) Last I heard (which was watching CNN newsroom yesterday morning) was that the President was taking a "Forward looking" approach to this and NOT pursuing legal action against the previous administration an effort to not distract congress from more pressing issues such as the global economic crisis. Also, I want to know how waterboarding (defined as a method to simulate drowning) should not be considered torture. I don't think the CIA agents who carried out these "interrogations" should be prosecuted, but I do think this is a gross misuse of power by the previous American administration and shows a distinct lack of morality. Yes, I know "they do much worse to us," but that's why they are them and we are us. That's why we at war with these people isn't it? Because they treat their fellow humans inhumanely? It's hypocritical at best, criminal at worst, to say that we're going to go after these people because of their actions and then employ immoral and unethical techniques on them. It's the same reason we don't just nuke the whole area and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homz Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Why are we seriously considering this a viable option? Torture is against the laws of every civilized country in the world. IF YOU THINK IT A GOOD IDEA THEN MOVE TO JORDAN OR SAUDI. I live in one of those countries that actually wrote the Geneva Conventions and then became a primary signatory of it. Although it might make an interesting thought experiment or a form of mental masturbation to talk about, torture is not a real option. ANYONE who has used it should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. In the USA that I live in I hope my kids grow up with the freedom of conscious that over the last 8 years we have abandoned as a country. Torture is only done by the evil doers. GWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Why are we seriously considering this a viable option? Torture is against the laws of every civilized country in the world. IF YOU THINK IT A GOOD IDEA THEN MOVE TO JORDAN OR SAUDI. I live in one of those countries that actually wrote the Geneva Conventions and then became a primary signatory of it. Although it might make an interesting thought experiment or a form of mental masturbation to talk about' date=' torture is not a real option. ANYONE who has used it should be arrested and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. In the USA that I live in I hope my kids grow up with the freedom of conscious that over the last 8 years we have abandoned as a country. [i']Torture is only done by the evil doers. GWB[/i] What is torture? And for your information Homzy, the Geneva Conventions were written by Europeans,we are signatories on the treaty. No matter how obnoxious or angry you get, your word is not law on the matter....I'd prefer to stay here in America and have you move to France...;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homz Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 What is torture? And for your information Homzy' date=' the Geneva Conventions were written by Europeans,we are signatories on the treaty. No matter how obnoxious or angry you get, your word is not law on the matter....I'd prefer to stay here in America and have you move to France...;) [/quote'] Spoken like a true Chicken Hawk. My word is not the law the Geneva Conventions are part of US law. If you think we were not part of the drafts of the Conventions then your even more of a brainwashed idiot then I already think you to be. You know, how about in the future just talk to someone who cares to listen to your level of ignorance. I don't mind people who disagree with me, but KSG is just more stupid then I can deal with in a single sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Another brilliant post Homz! Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homz Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 You seem a bit disheveled lately. What's the problem? Can't do your own thinking without Neo to at least tell you what propaganda to copy/paste? Isn't there a third world country you could be exploiting right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Your in fine form today Homz! Your like an energizer dumba$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homz Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Your in fine form today Homz! Your like an energizer dumba$$. Got any clever pics to accompany that bit of wisdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymisterk Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 It is public record that the enhanced interrogation techniques worked on at least two occasions and were responsible for getting information used to stop imminent threats. It seems to me' date=' that torture would be things like: Burning Pulling fingernails out Electric shock forced drugs Beatings Hangings Bone breaking etc. These are the things that the islamofacists do to their enemy as well as raping and beheading, which seem pretty torturous. It doesn't seem to me, that waterboarding (however scary it must be) or being forced into uncomfortable (but essentially harmless) positions, or the application of loud music and uncomfortable temperatures, should really be called torture. Past US Administrations have used these techniques with no threat of lawsuit or criminal action. These techniques may be rough, scary and a little bit shocking, but I have a hard time believing that the US government would be in the process of "torturing" people just for the hell of it...The intelligence analysts must see some value in the techniques being used or they wouldn't all have been doing it. Remember, the Congress passed a new law in 2006 that prohibits the use of Waterboarding and some of the other techniques, and there is NO evidence that the US government continued those practices after they were outlawed. Since the techniques were only explicitly outlawed in 2006, they must not have been illegal prior to 2006. What kills me, is that the ship (America) is on fire and threatening to sink...and Obama and the rest of his lib cohorts want to pursue the past administration's policy and decision making as if it was criminal. [/quote'] I laughed out loud when I read this, Col. Bat Guano. Correction: the ship WAS on fire, and is finally in the process of being patched up. Remember this: If we torture, you can bet your a$$ they're going to torture our boys and girls right back, and how. You don't think simulated drowning is torture? Sleep deprivation? The reason that "intelligence analysts must see some value in the technique" is because they panicked, were scared sh*tless of another attack, and instead of taking a deep breath and using logic, they decided to punt on first down. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that the information (whatever it was) we got from torturing these detainees was accurate, or that it couldn't have been obtained by other means. I'm sorry, I do not take Darth Cheney's word for it. The U.S.A. is the leader of world; we need to set the example, not stoop to their level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 ...I laughed out loud when I read this' date=' Col. Bat Guano. Correction: the ship WAS on fire, and is finally in the process of being patched up. Remember this: If we torture, you can bet your a$$ they're going to torture our boys and girls right back, and how. You don't think simulated drowning is torture? Sleep deprivation? The reason that "intelligence analysts must see some value in the technique" is because they panicked, were scared sh*tless of another attack, and instead of taking a deep breath and using logic, they decided to punt on first down. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that the information (whatever it was) we got from torturing these detainees was accurate, or that it couldn't have been obtained by other means. I'm sorry, I do not take Darth Cheney's word for it. The U.S.A. is the leader of world; we need to set the example, not stoop to their level. [/quote'] Hey dipstick, they are already torturing our boys when they capture them...they are already torturing all of their enemies, and they really torture people, not what we did. And the ship IS ON FIRE, don't you watch the news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymisterk Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 put in an express lane to the death chamber. You can build three express lanes, if you want; you can install a drive-thru espresso stand. It won't do any good, as there is absolutely no evidence that capital punishment acts as a deterrent to people who commit these crimes. However, there is PLENTY of evidence that innocent people have been put to death, and some have been spared moments before they were to die because new evidence exonerated them. Proof? Look to the state of Illinois... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Heymisterk, Are you from Parma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymisterk Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Hey dipstick' date=' they are already torturing our boys when they capture them...they are already torturing all of their enemies, and they really torture people, not what we did. And the ship IS ON FIRE, don't you watch the news?[/quote'] Dipstick...I like that...Do I get dipped in oil or that powdery candy? I like grape. More importantly, again you point out the obvious. See the last sentence of my last post, something about America being a LEADER and setting an EXAMPLE. You know; all that stuff you apparently don't believe in. In the end, I think what feels like a raging inferno to you feels like a cool mist to me. And damn, it's mighty refreshing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heymisterk Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Heymisterk' date=' Are you from Parma?[/quote'] Fortunately, no. Incidentally, my family almost moved to Corpus Christi when I was a kid. To be civil for a moment: It's a nice place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Dipstick...I like that...Do I get dipped in oil or that powdery candy? I like grape. More importantly' date=' again you point out the obvious. See the last sentence of my last post, something about America being a LEADER and setting an EXAMPLE. You know; all that stuff you apparently don't believe in. In the end, I think what feels like a raging inferno to you feels like a cool mist to me. And damn, it's mighty refreshing... [/quote'] WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 What kills me' date=' is that the ship (America) is on fire and threatening to sink... [/quote'] That Arab oil is flammable stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pumpkin Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 You can build three express lanes' date=' if you want; you can install a drive-thru espresso stand. It won't do any good, as there is absolutely no evidence that capital punishment acts as a deterrent to people who commit these crimes. However, there is PLENTY of evidence that innocent people have been put to death, and some have been spared moments before they were to die because new evidence exonerated them. Proof? Look to the state of Illinois...[/quote'] oh great... dont give them any ideas. pretty soon there WILL be Starbucks available to prisoners. yes, innocent people have been incarcerated & put to death. but when you have a case where the criminal has confessed, DNA matched, etc etc etc, then i see no reason to house them longer than a day. and that day would only be for their families to say goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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