new goldtop

[campfire]

Just picked up a year 2000 LP goldtop'56 Historic in ALL gold finish. I really like the all gold, it's really starting to grow on me. This guitar is nearly mint, I don't think it was ever played. Frets are like new. It just sounds amazing! (and plays like butta') The stoptail is screwed all the way down, and the strings are inserted backwards, wrapped around the tailpiece, then over the bridge. Makes for a real loose tension-but I like it. Bends are effortless, I could probably get away with 11's. (10's as of now) I will post pics as soon as I have time to take some photos. I'm very happy!

 

Larry

[TinFish]

Pictures!

[NeoConMan]

56 with P-90's?

Yeah Baby!!!

 

I LOVE P-90's!

 

Good job, enjoy it.

 

I screw the tailpiece all the way down on all my Gibsons anyway.

I don't bother with top-wrapping, for a number of reasons.

[campfire]

neoconman,

 

Would you mind sharing what are your reasons for not top-wrapping? Thanks!

 

Larry

[Corrosion of conformity]

nice guitar, I love goldtops!

[Silverbursted]

Umm, where are the pictures???

[Silverbursted]

Umm, where are the pictures???

[NeoConMan]

Would you mind sharing what are your reasons for not top-wrapping?

This is one of those beasts that just won't die....

:-)

 

First' date=' it places undue stress on the tailpiece studs.

The higher the strings are in relation to the top of the guitar, the more leverage they apply.

I've seen a few posts actually start to lean toward the bridge as the wood around them crushes.

Rare, but I've seen it - usually as a result of the tailpiece being raised up on the studs too far from the body.

 

Second, it seems to be fashionable trend immitating some pro players out there - with little in the way of reality for merit.

 

Third, the notion that it saves string breakage is bogus.

With my tail all the way down and the strings bending over the back of the bridge, I've never had a string break [i']there[/i].

Look at the sharp turns they make at the tuning post - that's where your breakage usually occurs.

 

Fourth, it scratches the hell out of the tail piece.

 

Fifth, saying there is "less string tension" with it top wrapped is baloney.

If there was less tension, the pitch would be lower, eh?

 

Sixth, the only way bends are easier this way (a common reason cited) is that the strings are sliding back and forth thru the saddle when you bend up. Sliding on a sharp saddle means broken strings for sure, eh?

 

Seventh, this means less downforce is being applied to the bridge. Less downforce on the bridge is believed to be detrimental to sustain - by Gibson. One of the reasons the headstock angle is 17 degrees (instead of straight like a Fender) is to increase downforce on the headstock end.

 

Gibson used that little factoid to distance themselves from the Fender designs 50 years ago, and they still do today.

 

 

 

Try it yourself, if you like it then go for it.

I doubt you would do any harm to the guitar, those posts are set pretty deep in hard Maple.

 

Still I remain a skeptic after all these years, and 90% of the claims in favor of top-wrapping don't make sense to me.

I figure Gibson knows what they're doing the way they string 'em up at the factory, I'll follow their lead.

[campfire]

NCM,

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the stringing method. You have many valid points. Although, #5 is debatable. Just because a guitar has less (or more) string tension has nothing to do with it's pitch. Two guitars with different tensions can be tuned to the same pitch, regardless of the reason for the difference in tensions.

That being said, I've gone back to the standard way of stringing (w/bridge all the way down) and I notice very little (if any) difference. Thanks for the replies, pics coming soon!

 

Larry

www.larrycamp.com

[SHO]

Although' date=' #5 is debatable. Just because a guitar has less (or more) string tension has nothing to do with it's pitch. Two guitars with different tensions can be tuned to the same pitch, regardless of the reason for the difference in tensions.

[/quote']

 

Please define what you mean by string tension. To me, the term 'string tension' has everything to do with the string pitch, i.e. to me, 'string tension' is what you manipulate when using the guitar tuners.

 

The speed of propagation of a wave through a string (v) is related to the tension of the string (T) and the linear mass of the string (µ) as: v=sqrt(T/µ).

 

The frequency (f) can then be determined with the length of the string (L) as follows: f=v/(2L)

 

In short, on a guitar, with string mass being constant, along with the scale length being constant as well, string tension is what decides the pitch for the open non fretted string.

 

Since I haven't tried this stringing method myself, I can only guess that what you are experiencing is a difference in the force you would need to bend the string when you play. I guess that such a difference is possible. The total length of the string, beyond the saddle and nut would effectively be a little bit longer when going around the tailpiece. The length of the string beyond the nut and saddle might come into play when bending if the string can slide through them without too much friction. Then the little bit of extra length might make the string appear as being a little bit more elastic and therefore easier to bend. This could possible also influence the resistance you feel when picking the strings. Then tension of the string would still be the same though. But yeah, I'm just guessing here. It is early and I haven't had my coffee yet! So I'm open for critique.

 

 

And I just registered to these forums. Been lurking for a while and decided that now was the time, as the part of Campfire's post had me both a bit intrigued as well as confused. And that's as good a place to start as any, right? I'll go see about making a introduction post sometime during the day. So yeah.. um, hello!

[campfire]

I am no physicist, or even good at math. Take 2 guitars. One has a scale length of 25 1/2" and one has a shorter scale length of 24 3/4". Tune them both to pitch. (A=440) The one with the longer scale length will "feel" a little stiffer, and harder to bend notes on. It will also have a more defined bass response on the lower strings, and a little more punch. Same pitch and tuning...different tension and feel. Whether correct or not, this is how I am defining "tension". I should have said: There are other factors other than pitch that determine string tension, rather than: "string tension has nothing to do with it's pitch."

 

Larry

[SHO]

Yes, for two guitars of different scale lengths you're absolutely correct. However, on your LP, going through or around the tailpiece, the scale length remains constant, meaning the length the string can vibrate, as in the length between the nut and the saddle. So, a string tuned to, say E will have the same tension to it, wrapped around the tailpiece or not, which I think is what NeoConMan meant in his post.

 

I am open to the idea that the strings elasticity is affected though, due to the string becoming longer from the ball at one end to the knot at the tuner end, affecting the way the string feels when bending or strumming.

 

Sorry if I'm not able to explain this very clearly. English isn't my first language.