Another Pro Stating There Is No Best Guitarists

[Sgt. Pepper]

3 hours ago, sparquelito said:

The Mike Douglas Show had Jimi Hendrix on as a guest at a time when Hendrix had become the toast of the town.
Douglas asked Hendrix: “What’s it was like to be the best rock guitarist in the world?”

Jimi then beautifully responded: “I don’t know, you’ll have to ask Rory Gallagher”. 

Jimi also had great affection for Billy Gibbons, and once told him "you're my favorite guitar player". 

Is there a difference between "the best" and "my favorite"?
Sure. 
Sometimes they are one and the same, but it'll all subjective.

Just don't ask Rolling Stone magazine. 
Those guys are full of ****. 

😐

 

Isn’t the Rolling Stone now just a political magazine run by a corporate entity, that has one or two articles on today’s music? Everything they started out not to be.

Rory Gallagher was so damn good. 

Edited May 19 by Sgt. Pepper

[Pinch]

4 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Isn’t the Rolling Stone now just a political magazine run by a corporate entity, that has one or two articles on today’s music?

That's every magazine today, sadly.

[Larsongs]

I agree with Vince.. There’s no such thing as the greatest.. That description is Promo Hype!!! Although, there many “Greats”!

[Dub-T-123]

I guess I need to check out whatever ZZ Top album was available while Jimi was alive. Gibbons seems like he’s alright but I’ve never heard anything that made me think he’s even remotely one of the greatest

[Ceptorman]

30 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

I guess I need to check out whatever ZZ Top album was available while Jimi was alive. Gibbons seems like he’s alright but I’ve never heard anything that made me think he’s even remotely one of the greatest

I know I'll catch some chit for this, but that's what I've always thought about Jimi. I keep waiting to hear something from him that puts him above everyone else. Isn't he a one hit wonder?!

[Karloff]

Best, best of, who's better than who lists and discussions while entertaining are a waste of time.  It all boils down to personal taste.

[IanHenry]

Best guitarist is a subjective thing.  There are so many great guitar players out there and they all fall into different categories, you couldn't compare Christopher Parkening with Jimi Hendrix it's like comparing Apples and Pear's, Jimi couldn't do what Christopher does and vice versa.

One thing I often wonder is how much technical knowledge the greats from the past, your Jimi, Peter Green etc  actually have, or did they just play what sounded right to them?

 

[merciful-evans]

18 minutes ago, IanHenry said:

 

One thing I often wonder is how much technical knowledge the greats from the past, your Jimi, Peter Green etc  actually have, or did they just play what sounded right to them?

 

Well, specifically I wouldn't know, but they learned during the 60s mostly and there wasn't much help around. I started in 1970 and I knew other players but everybody did their own thing. People were playing weird stuff that I've never seen since those times. So I would say they just played by ear mostly and as you said - just play what sounded right to them

[Pinch]

1 hour ago, IanHenry said:

Best guitarist is a subjective thing.  There are so many great guitar players out there and they all fall into different categories, you couldn't compare Christopher Parkening with Jimi Hendrix it's like comparing Apples and Pear's, Jimi couldn't do what Christopher does and vice versa.

One thing I often wonder is how much technical knowledge the greats from the past, your Jimi, Peter Green etc  actually have, or did they just play what sounded right to them?

 

You mean theory? It's an interesting question. You always see players who claim to hardly know any theory, and yet they play like they absolutely do.

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, Pinch said:

You mean theory? It's an interesting question. You always see players who claim to hardly know any theory, and yet they play like they absolutely do.

That makes total sense to me. Theory is just the technical explanation of “why” it sounds right.  It isn’t the music.  You don’t need to know it to play notes and a rhythm that sounds “right.”  Knowing theory can sure save time and an immense amount of trial and error, (I wish I knew more) but you can still create music without having any clue about what scale or interval or time signature you are playing in.

I was playing classical music at the top of my class as a kid without reading music or knowing scales.  I got finally got busted by my piano teacher when she realized I was copying what she was playing.  I quit when she started making me learn the music by score.  It was too hard, I couldn’t make heads out of all those lines and squiggles.  (Finally learned in grad school I had some pretty intense dyslexia that no one had caught on about, chuckle. I had just been intensely compensating all those years.)   

It’s kinda like you don’t need to know how the physics behind angles, energy, and force to use a knife to cut a tomato. 

Edited May 20 by PrairieDog

[Pinch]

33 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

That makes total sense to me. Theory is just the technical explanation of “why” it sounds right.  It isn’t the music.  You don’t need to know it to play notes and a rhythm that sounds “right.”  Knowing theory can sure save time and an immense amount of trial and error, (I wish I knew more) but you can still create music without having any clue about what scale or interval or time signature you are playing in.

I was playing classical music at the top of my class as a kid without reading music or knowing scales.  I got finally got busted by my piano teacher when she realized I was copying what she was playing.  I quit when she started making me learn the music by score.  It was too hard, I couldn’t make heads out of all those lines and squiggles.  (Finally learned in grad school I had some pretty intense dyslexia that no one had caught on about, chuckle. I had just been intensely compensating all those years.)   

It’s kinda like you don’t need to know how the physics behind angles, energy, and force to use a knife to cut a tomato. 

Oh yeah, I totally agree. I'm just jealous, is all 🙂

[Californiaman]

Regarding theory.... players who have earned their reputation by touring with other musicians, ensembles, bands, and the such, usually pick up theory from more accomplished, seasoned players.  They learn what works and the theory behind it.

Phil X, on a recent Rick Beato podcast, was demonstrating simple theory of one of his typical solos when he started calling out all of the flat fifths he used as he worked his way up the neck.  This is because his solo was based on the blues scale.  The blues scale or minor blues scale as some call it, is a hexatonic scale which consists of 1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7.  X was simply calling out the position and use of the flat five as he played a blues scale right up the neck from the first position to somewhere beyond the 12th position.  Lots of people understand bits and pieces of theory which helps them figure out the why.  Using this blues scale with 7th chords works because of the b7 of the scale.  So there's a double dose of theory for you.

Stacking thirds is how guitarists can end up playing right sounding chords.  For instance here's the Em scale: E, F#, G, A, B, C, D, E. Stacking thirds simply refers to moving three notes up the scale each time.

Em scale, with a i, iv v (all minor chords) chord progression. Simply start with the Em.  To form the root chord it's E, G, B (Em).  Moving to the iv chord we stack A, C, E (Am). See how I started with the fourth position of the scale?  For the fifth chord (it starts with the fifth note of the scale) we play B, D, F# which is a Bm.

Another bit of theory that relates to this is using either the Em pentatonic (1, b3, 4, 5, b7) to solo with or the Em Blues Scale again a hexatonic scale (1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7). 

Em Pentatonic:   E, G, A, B, D

Em Blues Scale:  E, G, A, Bb, B, D

Most of you probably already know this in the first position on the neck.  Learn the caged system here: Em Blues Scale for Caged System.

The first position is a classic rock riff for "Baby Please Don't Go"

Good luck.

[MissouriPicker]

I can’t believe that no one has mentioned me on the list.>………. Seriously, I think Vince Gill is 1000% correct.    For me, a lot of it depends on the kind of music you like..  For me it’s folk and country.  I can appreciate guys like Hendrix, but I love the playing of Roy Clark and Glenn Campbell.  How do you judge the skill levels between Hendrix, Campbell, Clark , Stevie Ray Vaughan, Doc Watson,, etc.,  or many of the lesser-known and unknown pickers that are just part of a band.   I love the,fingerpicking of Gordon Lightfoot and Peter Yarrow.  I love the driving guitar of Bonnie Raitt, Ronnie Wood and Keith.  I love Cash’s gentle picking or heavy rhythm guitar.   And what about the incredible musicians (like Glen Campbell) who rotated in-and-out of The Wrecking Crew?  No matter what intrument they played, they were awesome.  Anyways, that my three cents worth……Now of I’ve got to  get back to sulking about not being on anyone’s list.

[Californiaman]

Missouri you’re absolutely right about Roy Clark and Glenn Campbell. They were mighty men when it comes to picking and playing guitar. 

[Karloff]

15 minutes ago, Californiaman said:

Missouri you’re absolutely right about Roy Clark and Glenn Campbell. They were mighty men when it comes to picking and playing guitar. 

Roy Clark was the 1st guy that made me sit up and take notice that something very good was happening. I was just a kid watching him & Buck Owens on Hee Haw. my attention was quickly diverted to the Hee Haw Honeys though ...

I remember watching the Glen Campbell show. mid 60's you couldn't turn a radio on and not hear him.

[OrdinaryNimda]

2 hours ago, MissouriPicker said:

I can’t believe that no one has mentioned me on the list.>………. Seriously, I think Vince Gill is 1000% correct.    For me, a lot of it depends on the kind of music you like..  For me it’s folk and country.  I can appreciate guys like Hendrix, but I love the playing of Roy Clark and Glenn Campbell.  How do you judge the skill levels between Hendrix, Campbell, Clark , Stevie Ray Vaughan, Doc Watson,, etc.,  or many of the lesser-known and unknown pickers that are just part of a band.   I love the,fingerpicking of Gordon Lightfoot and Peter Yarrow.  I love the driving guitar of Bonnie Raitt, Ronnie Wood and Keith.  I love Cash’s gentle picking or heavy rhythm guitar.   And what about the incredible musicians (like Glen Campbell) who rotated in-and-out of The Wrecking Crew?  No matter what intrument they played, they were awesome.  Anyways, that my three cents worth……Now of I’ve got to  get back to sulking about not being on anyone’s list.

I never heard of Doc Watson before. The other day I caught "Deep River Blues" on YT from the sixties. Those fingers really doing magic, great camera work too.
(Originally I knew the song from Emmanuel and Jason Isbell, and Google helped me find Doc Watson)

[Karloff]

Jorma Kaukonen

[Sgt. Pepper]

On 5/19/2024 at 4:35 PM, Ceptorman said:

I know I'll catch some chit for this, but that's what I've always thought about Jimi. I keep waiting to hear something from him that puts him above everyone else. Isn't he a one hit wonder?!

I catch hell for it all the time. Jimi was great and a game changer, but THE BEST? No one is. There are many exceptional players out there. He only made  a total of 3 studio albums while living. 3, AYE, Axis and Ladyland. Yet somehow he has released about 50 since he passed. They just keep milking a dead man. We just found 14 unreleased seconds of Jimi’s Strat feeding back. I think we can make an album from that. 

Edited May 21 by Sgt. Pepper

[jdgm]

On 5/18/2024 at 3:53 PM, Sgt. Pepper said:

It keeps popping up when I’m searching the net. And makes me laugh to think the day Jimi died no guitarist ever advanced past what he could do. That’s what I’m supposed to believe. Like technology. Did it grind to a stand still after the model T was made? 

No. The whole point is that he was technically gifted, obsessed and worked very hard as well as having an unique imagination.  And as important was the fact he was brought to England and only lasted 3 years or so.

He was ahead of many, and his death was what changed things. John McLaughlin already had a brains to hand connection and language which Hendrix was close to, but not in the same way.

Had Hendrix not died, it's inevitable that other guitarists would have assimilated his sound. The Sound. The first to do so was IMO Ernie Isley on the 'That Lady' solo.  When I finally saw Spirit in the early 80s, Randy California spent the second half of his set playing Hendrix.

Edited May 22 by jdgm

[jdgm]

On 5/19/2024 at 9:35 PM, Ceptorman said:

I know I'll catch some chit for this, but that's what I've always thought about Jimi. I keep waiting to hear something from him that puts him above everyone else. Isn't he a one hit wonder?!

May I respectfully request that you reread the post you are commenting on.  I presume you mean Hendrix and not Gibbons.   And listen closely to 'Stone Free', '51st Anniversary',  'The Wind Cries Mary' and definitely track down the Clark University live take of 'Purple Haze'.

Awed jazz musicians in the 1940s used to think Charlie Parker "came from the future".  He did not. But he had significantly faster reactions than they did and had developed and mastered a (sometimes repetitive) language on his instrument. That alone explains most of it.

Something slightly similar happened with Jaco Pastorius, and - very obviously - John Coltrane.

However, musical talent is still mysterious to this day.

Edited May 22 by jdgm

[jdgm]

On 5/20/2024 at 11:15 AM, IanHenry said:

Best guitarist is a subjective thing.  There are so many great guitar players out there and they all fall into different categories, you couldn't compare Christopher Parkening with Jimi Hendrix it's like comparing Apples and Pear's, Jimi couldn't do what Christopher does and vice versa.

One thing I often wonder is how much technical knowledge the greats from the past, your Jimi, Peter Green etc  actually have, or did they just play what sounded right to them?

 

I was fortunate enough to see Peter Green 3 times. Fleetwood Mac on my 15th birthday in1969, then after he had left them, jamming with Snowy White for a benefit in a small club, and finally with The Splinter Group in the early 2000s.  The first time was the most exciting day of my life up to that point, the second was a close-up view of a legend (he very definitely was NOT mentally ill then) but I had no guitar knowledge or way of assessing his very impressive playing; the legendary Les Paul through a Marshall.  The third time was awful, sad and he played almost not at all, using as far as I could see only the 1st and 3rd fingers of his fretting hand. All the solos that night were played by the other guitarist, Nigel Watson. It seemed obvious to me that Green didn't want to even be there. However when did play (basic 2-finger stuff a child could easily do) it was also very obvious he had a faint echo of the tone in his fingers, and had he wanted to, he could have got some of it back in a few months.

For me the absolute key Peter Green track is 'Bottoms Up', an 8-minute jam which opens the album 'The End Of The Game'. His phrasing and tone are near uncopyable on this, though I bet Kirk Hammett knows it.  

The jazz pianist Zoot Money (also on one or two tracks of 'The End Of The Game') was evidently well educated musically.  He described Green as 'inept'.

Edited May 22 by jdgm

[Sgt. Pepper]

9 minutes ago, jdgm said:

I was fortunate enough to see Peter Green 3 times. Fleetwood Mac on my 15th birthday in1969, then after he had left them, jamming with Snowy White for a benefit in a small club, and finally with The Splinter Group in the early 2000s.  The first time was the most exciting day of my life up to that point, the second was a close-up view of a legend (he very definitely was NOT mentally ill then) but I had no guitar knowledge or way of assessing his very impressive playing; the legendary Les Paul through a Marshall.  The third time was awful, sad and he played almost not at all, using as far as I could see only the 1st and 3rd fingers of his fretting hand. All the solos that night were played by the other guitarist, Nigel Watson. It seemed obvious to me that Green didn't want to even be there. However when did play (basic 2-finger stuff a child could easily do) it was also very obvious he had a faint echo of the tone in his fingers, and had he wanted to, he could have got some of it back in a few months.

For me the absolute key Peter Green track is 'Bottoms Up', an 8-minute jam which opens the album 'The End Of The Game'. His phrasing and tone are near uncopyable on this, though I bet Kirk Hammett knows it.  

The jazz pianist Zoot Money (also on one or two tracks of 'The End Of The Game') was evidently well educated musically.  He described Green as 'inept'.

I can’t get into The End Game. I think it was just jam sessions that were recorded and cut up to make the record. It goes nowhere for me.

I remember reading something Jimi said - people recreate my music to such accuracy they even recreate my mistakes.

[jdgm]

7 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I can’t get into The End Game. I think it was just jam sessions that were recorded and cut up to make the record. It goes nowhere for me.

I remember reading something Jimi said - people recreate my music to such accuracy they even recreate my mistakes.

I cannot disagree. Most of the record is unfocused and some is unlistenable. However he was really flying on the opening track, in the sense that he took the band where he wanted to go.

Edited May 22 by jdgm

[Ceptorman]

3 hours ago, jdgm said:

May I respectfully request that you reread the post you are commenting on.  I presume you mean Hendrix and not Gibbons.   And listen closely to 'Stone Free', '51st Anniversary',  'The Wind Cries Mary' and definitely track down the Clark University live take of 'Purple Haze'.

Awed jazz musicians in the 1940s used to think Charlie Parker "came from the future".  He did not. But he had significantly faster reactions than they did and had developed and mastered a (sometimes repetitive) language on his instrument. That alone explains most of it.

Something slightly similar happened with Jaco Pastorius, and - very obviously - John Coltrane.

However, musical talent is still mysterious to this day.

I believe I did read every post on here. I'm just not a huge fan of Hendrix. I never really heard anything that impressed me. Yea he was very good, especially for that time, but I don't think he was near as innovative as Jimmy Page. 

Another guitarist that was considered a god by many is Eric Clapton. He just seems boring to me. Like you know what note is coming, somewhat predictable. 

I am a fan of Jeff Beck. I saw him about 3-4 years ago. I was amazed at what he could do with that Strat. 

I know it's all subjective. And being your favorite might not mean you think think they are the best.

[Sgt. Pepper]

But but but it Jimi Hendrix man. He could play out of tune, pretend to “f” his amp, light his Strat on fire, and still play Purple Haze on 5 tabs of Owsley LSD. Thats why he’s the best. Well he’s the best at doing that. I’ll take Richard Thompson’s guitar work any day over his. 

Edited May 23 by Sgt. Pepper