Thoughts on vintage Gibson J50 find and repair (thinking 1954)

[cdeelstra]

I have a vintage Gibson acoustic guitar I got from my brother. It was in terrible shape and needed repair. It has no FON or other numbers on or in it I can find. But there are definite signs that it is a legit guitar.  I believe it to be a 1948-54 Gibson J-50. I had my local "Gibson Authorized Repair Shop" (in Freehold, NJ) put her back into playing shape. I should’ve done my research first. I believed a local shop and got burned. They said 5 months repair time and that it needed a refret, and a bunch of crack repairs. I got the guitar back 8 months later, with no refret (just a level), cracks fixed, braces reglued, and the back resprayed—total cost almost $900. I was livid. I would not have authorized any respray. They wouldn't even give an opinion on the guitar either! Told me to go to Gruhns. Nice guys. So now I do not know if the repairs are correct and what it may be worth (and to be clear, im not a reseller, im a player so this hurts!).  I know it needs a PROPER nut replacement as they just left whatever was on the guitar already, which isn’t the correct size. It plays great, but I don’t know how to proceed. Before going any crazier than I already am, I figured I would post here and get some thoughts. Thank you in advance!

 

Edited August 21 by cdeelstra

[dhanners623]

When you dropped the guitar off, did they give you an estimate of the cost? If you drop it off and just say, “Repair what needs fixing,” you’re giving them a blank check. If you’ve got an estimate and something comes up that is going to drive up that price considerably, they should’ve given you a call.

Whatever you do, lose the tuners. Those Schallers look particularly ugly on the guitar and they’re not period-correct. Plus, the person who stuck them on did a lousy job.

[Dave F]

Ditto on the tuners.

I don't think belly down bridge is correct for this era.

They switched from no belly soap bar bridge to belly up in '50

They quit using fabric sides in '52

19 frets means pre '55

I like the vintage DeArmond pickup

I'd switch the tuners and go with it. If you want a new nut, they're easy to change.

 

[zombywoof]

Dave F is right about the bridge - should be a belly up.  And the J50 during these years sported a three-ply rosette.  The one on your guitar looks like a single ply but that could just be my old guy eyes.

What might figure in on dating the guitar is that while all Gibsons had FONS those made from later in 1945 into 1948 were notorious for not sporting them on the heck block.  But those stamps, of course, also faded.  And the Dearmond pickup is the second version easily identified by the exposed B pole.  I have been using those pickups since the 1960s and still have a couple laying around.

 

[Dave F]

4 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

Dave F is right about the bridge - should be a belly up.  And the J50 during these years sported a three-ply rosette.  The one on your guitar looks like a single ply but that could just be my old guy eyes.

What might figure in on dating the guitar is that while all Gibsons had FONS those made from later in 1945 into 1948 were notorious for not sporting them on the heck block.  But those stamps, of course, also faded.  And the Dearmond pickup is the second version easily identified by the exposed B pole.  I have been using those pickups since the 1960s and still have a couple laying around.

 

I don't think that back looks right either. No seam or book matched.

[Dave F]

14 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

..  And the J50 during these years sported a three-ply rosette.  The one on your guitar looks like a single ply but that could just be my old guy eyes.

....

 

Nothing wrong with your eyes

 

 

[Dave F]

Here's a shot of a '54 J50 I had, Looks like a WBW three-ply rosette.

 

 

[Dave F]

Here's the back of my '54. I don't know what I'm looking at on the OP's

 

[slimt]

29 minutes ago, Dave F said:

Here's the back of my '54. I don't know what I'm looking at on the OP's

 

I had a 52 that was just like yours. But the back was a lighter finish.   Mine had no FON or Serial number. So it was going by the details to get the year.   The OPs looks off by a bit. 

[cdeelstra]

I agree about the rosette, and the bridge. There was a make-shift truss rod cover on it that looked like it was made out of a broken piece of rosewood, maybe it was from the original. Unless its a 1948, I hear from 1943-48 they had belly down bridges floating around on several models. I figured as much. And the tuners obviously. The thing is, its been played and had mods done decades ago. Including a refret with jumbo wire. Who knows why people do what they do? They could've peeled off the rosette rings and refinished the back completely years ago. I don't know. I do know it has 19 frets, the correct logo with the tipple close to the G for the period, and the pickguard is original due to the material and the shrinkage from being on so long. My best guess is it was a workhorse someone "fixed up" in the 70s or 80s. The other guitars in the collection were the same, like a time warp, including a 73 Tele mint in the case and a Gibson banjolin from the 20s. Players grade through and through, plays great though. I think the tuners aren't a big deal for me as long as it stays in tune. Lastly, you were probably right. I was too loose with the leeway on repairs, and they just ran with it to keep their price up. Yes, they should have called first though. In a few weeks im bringing it to Buzzy at Lark Street Music in Teaneck NJ. He seems well respected, actually knows what hes talking about, and sells guitars like this (probably in better shape though) everyday. I have not had any luck in Monmouth County or the Jersey Shore area.

Edited August 22 by cdeelstra

[zombywoof]

2 hours ago, cdeelstra said:

 Unless its a 1948, I hear from 1943-48 they had belly down bridges floating around on several models. 

There were no J50s shipped after early-1943. The only Banner Gibson jumbo to sport a belly bridge was the Southerner Jumbo which acquired a belly down bridge sometime in 1942 although rumor has it that they appeared now and then on the late-1945 J45s.  The belly-up bridge starts popping up on the J50 in 1948 but did not become a standard feature until 1949. That pretty much mimics the J45.

By the way I play a 1942 J50.  It was pretty much a basket case player grade instrument when I stumbled upon it.  There had been rumors floating around about it for years but nobody seed to be able to come up with the name of who owned it.  Then one day I got a call from a friend who owns a small music shop saying guess what just showed up.  I think I was walking through his front door before he even had hung the phone up.  The guitar spent a full year in the shop literally from one Columbus day to the next.  But I was overjoyed with it when Keith George (who is a second-generation luthier) finally put it back in hands.  This guy was an absolute wizard whom the vintage Martin guys used to call "Doc."

[cdeelstra]

23 hours ago, zombywoof said:

There were no J50s shipped after early-1943. The only Banner Gibson jumbo to sport a belly bridge was the Southerner Jumbo which acquired a belly down bridge sometime in 1942 although rumor has it that they appeared now and then on the late-1945 J45s.  The belly-up bridge starts popping up on the J50 in 1948 but did not become a standard feature until 1949. That pretty much mimics the J45.

By the way I play a 1942 J50.  It was pretty much a basket case player grade instrument when I stumbled upon it.  There had been rumors floating around about it for years but nobody seed to be able to come up with the name of who owned it.  Then one day I got a call from a friend who owns a small music shop saying guess what just showed up.  I think I was walking through his front door before he even had hung the phone up.  The guitar spent a full year in the shop literally from one Columbus day to the next.  But I was overjoyed with it when Keith George (who is a second-generation luthier) finally put it back in hands.  This guy was an absolute wizard whom the vintage Martin guys used to call "Doc."

Thank you for the reply, and not being snarky about it! I like your story, this type of stuff never happens anymore. I have a brother that is an electrician that was working on a house of a gentleman whom passed away. His family was there throwing everything away without a care. The home owner actually asked my brother to help bring a few guitars to the road for garbage. He mentioned that I played guitar, and she said, "here take them all". One was a mint 1973 Fender Telecaster in case, a 1920s Gibson Banjolin, 1960s Kalamazoo SG, and this vintage Gibson acoustic im posting about here today. It looks like they were all loved up until the 80s when they were left to rot in a corner. I felt so awful about someone's collection being thrown away by family without a care. It was like watching a movie, the emotions are no joke. I made sure the other instruments went to people who would not only take care of them, but play them. The tele was bought by a semi famous studio musician, the Banjolin went to Pittsburg to be restored, the Kalamazoo is being played, etc.. I plan on playing this Gibson acoustic as much as I can. I just hope to find more info about it. Chances are it was refinished sometime before being left to get dusty and dry for decades. Have a good day.

[cdeelstra]

On 8/21/2024 at 5:23 PM, dhanners623 said:

When you dropped the guitar off, did they give you an estimate of the cost? If you drop it off and just say, “Repair what needs fixing,” you’re giving them a blank check. If you’ve got an estimate and something comes up that is going to drive up that price considerably, they should’ve given you a call.

Whatever you do, lose the tuners. Those Schallers look particularly ugly on the guitar and they’re not period-correct. Plus, the person who stuck them on did a lousy job.

Yes, they said between 700-1000. I said to make it playable, they said they are not doing any "restoration work" as far as paint etc, but then did just that without a notice. But it seems it was probably redone once before, could be why the back is so light idk. For all I know it was a sunburst converted to natural in the 70s like people liked to do when sunburst fell out of fashion. I found out that the repair shop has a repair school as well, so I think I may have been the victim of a undisclosed "painting lesson" for all I know. Even though they did make it very playable, and have a good reputation, I will never go back there.

[zombywoof]

Not sure what there is to be "snarky" about.

But regarding finishes there are ways to check what is original and what is not.  As a starting point Gibson shot the finish after the neck, bridge, and all had been slapped on.  So, if the guitar had originally or at any time sported a burst there might be evidence of it not only from some overspray inside the guitar but along say the fingerboard extension.  Other than that, a blacklight will reveal much.  But sometimes a guitar just likes being elusive about its past.  They just sit there and taunt you to figure them out. 

On yours, you know it dates from 1947 to 1954 (or thereabout as Gibson did not change specs precisely at the stroke of midnight on Jan. 1).   Other things such as the presence of wood or fabric side supports and a tapered headstock would narrow it down to before 1953 although as those changes occurred gradually between 1951 and that year it will not tell you anything definitively.  So not a whole lot of help.  That though may be the best you will be able to do.

[MorristownSal]

How about emailing Rich and Dave at Brothers in Wind Gap PA. They’ve done hundreds of these  Gibson restorations. Maybe thousands. They are honest and can tell you your options, and I bet fix your gal right up. be aware. They have six months wait list.

 

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