Dave F Posted October 25 Posted October 25 (edited) Ran across this one at Fullers. J35 faded. List $2199 and they have a sale going on at 15% off (code FALL15) so get it for $1869.15. If you're outside of Texas, free shipping and no taxes. SPECIFICATIONS BODY Body Styles Round Shoulder Body Shape J-45 Body Material Mahogany Top Sitka Spruce Back Mahogany Side Mahogany Bracing Traditional Hand-scalloped X-bracing Binding Multi-ply Top, Single-ply Back Body Finish Satin Nitrocellulose Lacquer NECK Profile Rounded Scale Length 628.65 mm / 24.75 in Fingerboard Material Rosewood Fingerboard Radius 304.8 mm / 12 in Fret Count 19 Frets Standard Small Crown Nut Material Bone Nut Width 43.815 mm / 1.725 in Inlays Mother of Pearl Dots Joint Compound Dovetail Neck-to-body Joint; Hot Hide Glue HARDWARE Bridge Rectangular, Closed Slot Saddle Material Bone Tuning Machines Grover Open Back Pickguard Advanced Jumbo Truss Rod Adjustable Truss Rod Cover Black and White ELECTRONICS Under Saddle Pickup LR Baggs VTC Controls Soundhole Mounted Volume and Tone Output Jack 1/4" Endpin Jack Preamp LR Baggs VTC MISCELLANEOUS Strings Gauge .012, .016, .024, .032, .042, .053 Case Hardshell Case Edited October 25 by Dave F Quote
Larsongs Posted October 25 Author Posted October 25 Interesting Guitar. How do I get out of paying California Sales Tax? We used to be able to but it’s been several years since they changed that. I’ve bought several Guitars out of State in the past few years & they always charge California Sales Tax. Several being from Sweetwater. Some Used ones off Reverb too. 1 Quote
Dave F Posted October 25 Posted October 25 18 minutes ago, Larsongs said: Interesting Guitar. How do I get out of paying California Sales Tax? We used to be able to but it’s been several years since they changed that. I’ve bought several Guitars out of State in the past few years & they always charge California Sales Tax. Several being from Sweetwater. Some Used ones off Reverb too. You can put my address down 🙂 Just go to Fullers and put it in cart and see if they tax you. That's what I did while checking it out. Quote
PrairieDog Posted October 25 Posted October 25 26 minutes ago, Larsongs said: Interesting Guitar. How do I get out of paying California Sales Tax? We used to be able to but it’s been several years since they changed that. I’ve bought several Guitars out of State in the past few years & they always charge California Sales Tax. Several being from Sweetwater. Some Used ones off Reverb too. In 2018 the rules were changed so that online retailers are now required to collect the sales taxes that would be due based on the buyer’s address. Technically, it had always been the buyers responsibility to report and pay any state sales taxes owed on a sale if they weren’t collected by the vendor. Of course, we all turned a blind eye to that little tax nicety, chuckle. Some smaller/maverick online retailers still try to skirt the issue and leave it to the buyer to report the tax, or use creative “discounts” to avoid the hassle of tracking it all. I do think most of the big online sellers conform now. Quote
Larsongs Posted October 26 Author Posted October 26 20 hours ago, PrairieDog said: In 2018 the rules were changed so that online retailers are now required to collect the sales taxes that would be due based on the buyer’s address. Technically, it had always been the buyers responsibility to report and pay any state sales taxes owed on a sale if they weren’t collected by the vendor. Of course, we all turned a blind eye to that little tax nicety, chuckle. Some smaller/maverick online retailers still try to skirt the issue and leave it to the buyer to report the tax, or use creative “discounts” to avoid the hassle of tracking it all. I do think most of the big online sellers conform now. I wonder if any out of State Music Stores charge California Sales Tax then rewrite the paperwork internally & show the tax rolled into the Sale price with no Tax? Then take the Tax as profit. Quote
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 26 Posted October 26 20 minutes ago, Larsongs said: I wonder if any out of State Music Stores charge California Sales Tax then rewrite the paperwork internally & show the tax rolled into the Sale price with no Tax? Then take the Tax as profit. If its legal or if they can get away with it, I would not doubt it for a second. Quote
PrairieDog Posted October 26 Posted October 26 18 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: If its legal or if they can get away with it, I would not doubt it for a second. Uh no, there is a thing called a paper trail… The tax is collected on the gross sale, so it wouldn’t matter if they recorded it internally as tax or profit. The sale amount ties out to the cash receipt, and that is what the tax is figured on. The calculation assumes the collected tax was included in the deposit. I know it’s more fun for you to just be cynical. But believe it or not, most businesses prefer to stay in business. And they do that by following the rules. There are the accounting programs, in-house accountants preparing the books and filing the returns, outside auditors, and state agencies tracking their cut that make sure of that. Quote
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 26 Posted October 26 (edited) 33 minutes ago, PrairieDog said: Uh no, there is a thing called a paper trail… The tax is collected on the gross sale, so it wouldn’t matter if they recorded it internally as tax or profit. The sale amount ties out to the cash receipt, and that is what the tax is figured on. The calculation assumes the collected tax was included in the deposit. I know it’s more fun for you to just be cynical. But believe it or not, most businesses prefer to stay in business. And they do that by following the rules. There are the accounting programs, in-house accountants preparing the books and filing the returns, outside auditors, and state agencies tracking their cut that make sure of that. There all sorts of good people are in jail for following the rules, huh. In this state I’m a criminal if I get pulled over with an ounce of weed in the car. In Michigan it’s totally fine. 2 sides to every story. I wonder just wonder if Gibson ever did any unethical business practices? The Feds don’t knock on your door to give you a dozen doughnuts cause your nice people. Ask Sean P Diddy Puffy Combs. They usually have something called evidence against you. Edited October 26 by Sgt. Pepper Quote
fortyearspickn Posted October 26 Posted October 26 Those should be flying off the shelves, like hotcakes! I'm half tempted myself and I need another guitar like a hole in my head. Which, my wife would put there. alongside the last one. Quote
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 28 Posted October 28 On 10/26/2024 at 12:24 PM, fortyearspickn said: Those should be flying off the shelves, like hotcakes! I'm half tempted myself and I need another guitar like a hole in my head. Which, my wife would put there. alongside the last one. If those are the same as a J-45 just in a natty finish, why wouldn't you get one (if in the market) and pay almost half of the price. Quote
Larsongs Posted October 28 Author Posted October 28 The Gibson 30’s faded J-45 lists at $2199.00, the 50’s faded J-45 lists at $2499.00 & the Gloss J-45 Std lists at $2999.00. The 30’s has 19 frets & 50’s has 20. They’re almost the same Specs. Except the # of Frets, Pickguards & slightly different Tuners. Am I missing anything? The J-45 Std has Gloss finish, Slim Taper Neck & Tusq Nut. Plus, slightly different Gotoh Tuners. The 30’s seems like a heck of a good buy. Especially for my intended use. I want to play a couple of these. There are a couple other contenders but aren’t Gibson so I didn’t think I should post them here. I didn’t want to muddy the water so to speak. Quote
PrairieDog Posted October 28 Posted October 28 51 minutes ago, Larsongs said: The Gibson 30’s faded J-45 lists at $2199.00, the 50’s faded J-45 lists at $2499.00 & the Gloss J-45 Std lists at $2999.00. The 30’s has 19 frets & 50’s has 20. They’re almost the same Specs. Except the # of Frets, Pickguards & slightly different Tuners. Am I missing anything? The J-45 Std has Gloss finish, Slim Taper Neck & Tusq Nut. Plus, slightly different Gotoh Tuners. The 30’s seems like a heck of a good buy. Especially for my intended use. I want to play a couple of these. There are a couple other contenders but aren’t Gibson so I didn’t think I should post them here. I didn’t want to muddy the water so to speak. Quick note, the 30s is a J-35 and is a less expensive guitar to start with. It is not the same build as a 45, otherwise it would be priced the same as one, or at least as the Faded 50s J45 or the Studio J-45 both of which make some compromises off the Standard to get to the lower price points. Gibson isn’t building charity guitars, much as we might wish they were, chuckle. Not saying there aren’t folks out there that don’t love their 35s, but most say they do sound different than a J45. But it is still a good guitar for the price. Also, be sure to note, they now make a Faded 50s (lower priced than the Standard) and an Original 50s (slightly higher priced) just to mess with us. So be very careful which “50s” model you are looking at. (I did play a 50s Original, and thought it sounded great. The faded 50s not so much on the one I tried.) 1 Quote
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 28 Posted October 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, PrairieDog said: Quick note, the 30s is a J-35 and is a less expensive guitar to start with. It is not the same build as a 45, otherwise it would be priced the same as one, or at least as the Faded 50s J45 or the Studio J-45 both of which make some compromises off the Standard to get to the lower price points. Gibson isn’t building charity guitars, much as we might wish they were, chuckle. Not saying there aren’t folks out there that don’t love their 35s, but most say they do sound different than a J45. But it is still a good guitar for the price. Also, be sure to note, they now make a Faded 50s (lower priced than the Standard) and an Original 50s (slightly higher priced) just to mess with us. So be very careful which “50s” model you are looking at. (I did play a 50s Original, and thought it sounded great. The faded 50s not so much on the one I tried.) Oops 1/3 off. I thought J-45’s were 4k. Edited October 28 by Sgt. Pepper Quote
Dave F Posted October 28 Posted October 28 I compared the specs to the 50's faded which is $300 higher Different bridge, pickguard, fret shape, no burst, 19 frets. Everything thing else spec'd the same. Quote
PrairieDog Posted October 28 Posted October 28 24 minutes ago, Dave F said: I compared the specs to the 50's faded which is $300 higher Different bridge, pickguard, fret shape, no burst, 19 frets. Everything thing else spec'd the same. The reviews I saw about the 30s J-35 were using terms like jangly, and bright over a Standard. Besides the bridge I wonder if the woods they use are maybe a different grade and that could make a tonal difference? I did think the Faded I tried (with the disclaimer every one is different of course) was a little “weak and brittle” sounding, compared to the Standard and the 50’s Original. If it’s the exact same specs as the downmarket faded 45, it would have been simpler to just call it a “j-45 50’s Natural” instead of the “30s J-35.” That just clutters up their catalog even more, chuckle. I understood j-35s were introduced as an “economy” Jumbo during the depression, so folks could still afford a Gibson, aka *only* $35.00. And then the j45 was built differently which was why they became such a big deal. Quote
Larsongs Posted October 29 Author Posted October 29 5 hours ago, Dave F said: I compared the specs to the 50's faded which is $300 higher Different bridge, pickguard, fret shape, no burst, 19 frets. Everything thing else spec'd the same. As I mentioned above the 30’s J35 & the 50’s J45 have build Specs almost identical to a J45 Std. from what I’m reading. The J45 Std has fancier cosmetics & gloss finish. Pretty much the same materials & actual Guitar build from what I can see. Unless there’s something missing from the Specs. The 30’s has 19 frets & 50’s has 20. They’re almost the same Specs. Except the # of Frets, Pickguards & slightly different Tuners. Am I missing anything? The J-45 Std has Gloss finish, Slim Taper Neck & Tusq Nut. Plus, slightly different Gotoh Tuners. The 30’s & 50’s have Bone Nuts. Otherwise it appears to be the same build of Guitar. Please let me know if there are significant differences other than what I mentioned. Quote
Larsongs Posted October 29 Author Posted October 29 2 hours ago, Dave F said: Rounded neck shape Right. The new J-45 Std has a slim Taper neck from the Specs I see. The 30’s J35 & 50’s faded J45 have rounded Necks. That does make a difference. The Nut is 1.724” on the J45 Std as opposed to 1.725” on the 30’s J35 & faded 50’s J45. Quote
PrairieDog Posted October 29 Posted October 29 (edited) The 50s Faded is the budget Standard. The 30s 35 has still more compromises from the 50s Faded. So, comparing two guitars to each other, and trying to say they are the equivalent of the flagship Standard 45 is a red herring. They are not all exactly the same animals. Otherwise why would they be priced differently, and named to distinguish them? All I’m trying to say, is if it were built, played and sounded the exact same as a Standard J-45, then 1. Why would they continue to build the Standard? 2. Obviously no one would ever pay the price of a Standard if they can get the exact same sound for 800 bucks less. The only criteria is whether you like the sound and feel of the 30s. Trying to compare it to other guitars that are not it is kinda futile. It is a good guitar “for the price.” Just don’t think you are outwitting the system and scoring a Standard on the cheap. Now, you could modify bridges, frets, nuts, tuners, etc (the neck might be hard)… but then by, you could have just popped for the real thing. Edited October 29 by PrairieDog Quote
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 29 Posted October 29 (edited) 43 minutes ago, PrairieDog said: The 50s Faded is the budget Standard. The 30s 35 has still more compromises from the 50s Faded. So, comparing two guitars to each other, and trying to say they are the equivalent of the flagship Standard 45 is a red herring. They are not all exactly the same animals. Otherwise why would they be priced differently, and named to distinguish them? All I’m trying to say, is if it were built, played and sounded the exact same as a Standard J-45, then 1. Why would they continue to build the Standard? 2. Obviously no one would ever pay the price of a Standard if they can get the exact same sound for 800 bucks less. The only criteria is whether you like the sound and feel of the 30s. Trying to compare it to other guitars that are not it is kinda futile. It is a good guitar “for the price.” Just don’t think you are outwitting the system and scoring a Standard on the cheap. Now, you could modify bridges, frets, nuts, tuners, etc (the neck might be hard)… but then by, you could have just popped for the real thing. Why would someone pay what a JP EDS-1275 cost to hang it on their wall and never play it. It’s an instrument. People spend $ on stuff cause it’s their $. Who needs a Lamborghini to get to work when a Honda Civic gets you there too? I like natural finished guitars. I like to see the wood grain the tree gave up for my instrument, not some black and yellow paint on the top, sides and back, Edited October 29 by Sgt. Pepper Quote
PrairieDog Posted October 29 Posted October 29 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Why would someone pay what a JP EDS-1275 cost to hang it on their wall and never play it. It’s an instrument. People spend $ on stuff cause it’s their $. Who needs a Lamborghini to get to work when a Honda Civic gets you there too? I like natural finished guitars. I like to see the wood grain the tree gave up for my instrument, not some black and yellow paint on the top, sides and back, That’s nice for you. That’s not the point of my comment. It costs money for a company to make different products and hold extensive different inventories. They wouldn’t do it just so “folks could buy them.” As soon as folks figure out there is a cheaper identical item, MOST folks would take the savings. to compare: A Lamborghini is appointed and performs entirely differently than a Prius. So do you insist your Prius drives and rides the same as a Lambo just because they are both cars made of metal with steering wheels? That is my point. There are tangible reasons one guitar is $800.00 more, and it’s not all just in the paint job. Edited October 29 by PrairieDog Quote
Sgt. Pepper Posted October 29 Posted October 29 (edited) 50 minutes ago, PrairieDog said: That’s nice for you. That’s not the point of my comment. It costs money for a company to make different products and hold extensive different inventories. They wouldn’t do it just so “folks could buy them.” As soon as folks figure out there is a cheaper identical item, MOST folks would take the savings. to compare: A Lamborghini is appointed and performs entirely differently than a Prius. So do you insist your Prius drives and rides the same as a Lambo just because they are both cars made of metal with steering wheels? That is my point. There are tangible reasons one guitar is $800.00 more, and it’s not all just in the paint job. A Lamborghini gets stuck in the same traffic I do. Also cost more to insure and maintain, so why would someone buy the Lamborghini when there is a cheaper option. Cause they can. Oh and in your words - most folks would take the savings. So if Gibson has cheaper options why are the higher priced guitars selling at all? Cause people want what they want. Simple as that. Do I need to use your words again about savings? Why did I, or you, or anyone buy the guitar(s) they have. Affordability is one. Someone wanted that model cause their guitar hero plays it. Or they collect them and give less than 2 t-urds what the cost is. Or it’s just what they wanted due to it sounding great even if the cheaper option saves them $. So do you have a J-45 even though there is a cheaper option? Edited October 29 by Sgt. Pepper Quote
Lars68 Posted October 29 Posted October 29 (edited) I think the J-35 is simply a more cost efficient guitar to produce, and hence the lower price. No spraying of a sunburst and no polishing means less labor hours. A lower price to the consumer does not necessarily mean less quality, tonal or otherwise. In this case, I bet non of us could hear any difference whatsoever in tone in a blind test based based on if a finish is polished or not. According to the video above, there is a difference in the angle of the x-brace between the J-35 and J-45. This makes sense, why else call it a J-35? In Gibson model history, the 35 is a seperate model and design from the 1930’s, while the 45 first appeared in 1942. So very likely, Gibson is making a vintage inspired version of the original bracing in the modern J-35, to differentiate it slightly tonally from modern J-45s. As for the tone of the J-35 in the video, I’d say it's 100% Gibson and nothing cost cutting about it. Sounds great! For me, if I was starting my journey into Gibson, and was into vintage inspired look and features, this J-35 is exactly where I would start. If money is no object, here is a similar alternative… https://www.ebay.com/itm/266957499418 Lars Edited October 29 by Lars68 Quote
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