Latest Dark Fire News from Gibson - May 2009

[gplayer100]

The Dark Fire guitar started shipping approximately 1 week ago. Production is currently 100 units per day.

 

It takes anywhere from one week to six weeks (international markets) for a guitar to show up at a dealer. As an example, Guitar Center picks up units by truck once a week, takes them to their distribution warehouse, sort the receipts, and then ships them by truck to individual stores. The store unloads a truck filled with many different items etc.

 

These guitars have new circuit boards that have allowed a much superior sound primarily from the hex piezo signal. The blend control has been substantially improved. There is new firmware for the guitar, RIP and new drivers allowing the combined use of the RIP with Echo brand AudioFire interfaces to allow surround and multichannel use.

 

There will only be approximately 2000 units manufactured and they are already sold out to dealers world wide. This particular model will not be sold again although new models with the technology will be sold (i.e. different color, configuration, etc.).

 

Anyone who has an original Dark Fire can get the guitar rebuilt with the new components by simply following Gibson standard warranty procedures. Call 800-4GI-BSON or other contacts as listed in the support area. The choice is between having a rare 1st shipment guitar (approximately 200 units) maintained as a collectible instrument, or a new specification unit. Both are good choices.

 

There is very likely a price increase coming as the cost to produce this instrument far exceeded original expectations. While Gibson is trying to hold the line, the value included in the instrument in terms of cost is substantial. A special assembly line had to be set up with some serious computerized test equipment and technician time involved to achieve the unheard of technical specifications.

 

The guitar really rocks and everyone who has touched it has fallen deeply in love with the instrument.

 

Apparently, Gibson was unable to make comments during the redevelopment because there were some many uncertainties in when a instrument could be manufactured and shipped to very stringent requirements. (The delay cost the company a great deal of money by the way. It would have been easier to ship the instrument as it was since it was functionally working rather than waiting for the serious improvements contained in the currently shipping model.) The only thing the company could say was a knowing lame "We are working on new enhancements and we do not know when they will be done." It could have taken far longer if certain issues required even more engineering.

 

Gibson continues to work on new and improved technologies in its labs. It is working on reducing the costs of the technologies in the Dark Fire allowing them to be included in more cost effective instruments, and has two new generations in the works with incredible futuristic features.

 

I hope this answers a lot of peoples questions.

[DiscoPimp]

it gets better and better ... once again stunned and more and more convinced never to buy a Gibson product ... also amazed at how people are eating the bull G is feeding through theyr official and unofficial channels

 

thx 4 the update gplayer ... but who are you again to make an announcement for Gibson ? is this an official announcement from G ?

 

maybe you mean well, but if this is an official announcemet there are a couple of outrageous statements in your post i'd take serious issue with if i was a paying customer .. which i'm not

[fubb]

Thanks for this

The comment about "cost implications" for the customer sounds painful. I have put a deposite down at the original quoted price. Is that cost now up for re-negotiation.

[MLB]

gplayer, thank you for the update, that's very much appreciated.

 

Coupla requests for Gibson support:

 

1. Would it be best to wait several weeks before RMA-ing my DF to have it upgraded ?

- reason I ask is the DF line is probably consumed right now with production changes

2. Please provide details on how to determine if a specific S/N has been upgraded or a procedure, possibly using the MCK circuitry or visual inspection of the main electronics board ?

3. For existing RIP's, is there an upgrade that is applied at the factory (via RMA also) to the RIP or can that be done via firmware update ?

4. Is there a cost associated to existing DF owners for Gibson upgrading the DF/RIP to the current circuitry/release level ?

5. Is there any price increase for people who have already paid for DF's and have not received them yet ?

- if needed, it does make sense to increase the prices for DF's that have not been paid for.

6. As with any software, firmware, or hardware change, I need to learn of the specifics involved with any of the upgrades. Please provide the information.

- keeping in mind your statement about having a first run DF or an upgraded model....if I can learn of the changes/enhancements, I could decide whether to make the change or keep what I have.

7. Does the Customer pay for the RMA cost to the Nashville factory and Gibson pays for the freight back ?

8. What is the expected turnaround time at the factory for upgrades ?

9. Will we receive the exact same serial number in return or do we need to specifically request that to be done ?

 

Thank you for your time and providing us with information.

[elantric]

Couple of Answers:

1. Would it be best to wait several weeks RMA-ing my DF to have it upgraded ?

 

You may obtain an RMA now.

 

 

2. Can Gibson support provide details on how to determine if a specific S/N has been upgraded or would there be a way to tell using the MCK circuitry ?

 

The new Piezo circuitry uses a voltage controlled amplifier, providing a 30db improvement in SNR. You can test any Dark Fire if this VCA circuit is in place as follows:

 

A) Pull out the MCK, rotate to the "I" position, and tap the MCK until the small acoustic guitar icon LED glows. This enables the Piezo Output.

 

The Piezo Blend control (on the toggle switch) is now manipulating a Voltage level feeding to the new VCA IC. There is a small delay in operation as you rotate the Piezo Blend control - about 250 milliseconds. Rotate the Piezo Blend control rapidly full clockwise to Acoustic, and listen for the full Acoustic sound to emerge, 250 milliseconds later. Yes its a new small delay when enabling Piezo operation, but the improved dynamic range and sonic excellence of the piezo - particularly when driving other gear - like a Roland VG-99 using the Rip Hex to GK13 cable is dramatically improved compared to the December 2008 Dark Fire.

 

3. Is there a cost associated to me for Gibson upgrading my DF to the current circuitry ?

The upgrade is covered under your warranty. Follow standard Gibson RMA procedures.

 

4. As with any software, firmware, or hardware change, I would like to learn of the specifics involved with the upgrade. Where can I find that information ? Keeping in mind your statement about having a first run DF or an upgraded model....if I know the changes/enhancements, I could decide whether to make the change of keep what I have.

 

The upgrade focused on the usability of the Piezo -

*New piezo blend PC board - not present in earlier Dark Fires, provides lower noise in both mono and hexaphonic modes and improved acoustic sound.

* The Piezo bridge circuitry was modified.

* The CPA board with relay controls for the pickups was modified to minimize and eliminate the occasional "pops" and crackles that occurred when changing modes using the MCK on the fly.

 

* The Neck P90H has been redesigned for improved humbucking function in those Chameleon modes where it is enabled i.e. "Metal".

 

* The Charger / Splitter box has been updated - no more hum during charge while playing.

* The RIP has been updated for lower noise in the Hex Output, and altered Piezo gain fed to the Firewire input - for improved headroom and dynamic range when running 6 instances of Guitar rig 3.

 

7. What is the expected turnaround time at the factory for upgrades ?

2-3 weeks including transit

 

 

8. Will we receive the exact same serial number in return ?

 

Yes - it is your guitar that gets upgraded and your guitar that gets returned.

[sympodius]

Interesting post. I wonder where the information came from. I'm curious about the, "2000," number. I thought there were going to be 4000 Dark Fire guitars (including those already produced): 2000 for America and 2000 for the rest of the world. The use of the word "approximately" worries me a little as well. Surely a limited run should know its limit?

 

Perhaps I'm just being paranoid. Oh well, interesting post all the same. Thanks for the info.

[MLB]

Thanx Steve ! You're "quick on the draw" my friend.

 

I added a coupla more questions....probably while u were typing too.

 

One other thought I have would be to include inside the guitar case a list of the issues with my guitar and require a written response as to the repair of those items, so I know they were not overlooked (eg, sharp frets, MCK pop, P90 hum, etc).

 

I don't plan to send the DF back to Nashville in either the Gibson black cardboard case or in the Gibson white guitar case. I'll send it in a regular Gibson Les Paul case, inside of a suitable cardboard guitar shipping case. I'm assuming this won't be an issue with Gibson.

[elantric]

When sending a guitar in for an RMA I encourage you to use the original box and packaging.

 

* Place the guitar in the white case.

* Place white case inside the Black Cardboard box - taking care that the foam rubber lining is above and below the white case .

* Slip the Black Cardboard box inside the Brown cardboard shipping box.

* Call Gibson for an RMA number

 

* In the USA Fedex will arrive within 48 hours and pickup the guitar.

 

 

One other thought I have would be to include inside the guitar case a list of the issues with my guitar and require a written response as to the repair of those items, so I know they were not overlooked (eg, sharp frets, MCK pop, P90 hum, etc).

 

 

Thats what I did - The more details the better. I took pictures and described everything wrong with my Dark Fire - in a MS Word document that i printed out in color - 4 pages worth. It was inside the guitar case when I sent mine for RMA.

 

i also made a PDF of it - so that if Gibson Customer service contacted me via email - I could send them the PDF too.

 

This way your expectations will be met.

 

In my case Gibson repaired paint damage due to shipping, polished the fret ends that cut my fingers, fixed the out of phase pickups, and replaced the MCK internal POT with one that does not get stuck.

 

I had detailed each of these items in my "RMA Request Report" i included with the Guitar prior to sending it in for an RMA.

[johnnyurq]

You have stated on the other thread shown below Elantric that this is a formal announcement and I am grateful to you for that information.

 

 

The formal announcement is here:

 

http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19793

 

 

Although for me the announcement throws up as many questions as it has answered I am hoping you may be able to address them if you have the info. Or possibly find out that info.

 

1) If there is only going to be a run of 2000 rather than the 4000 talked about prior, does that mean some dealers may get short changed and then people will lose out despite deposits etc have been paid?

 

This is because I believe that certainly in the UK the dealers were all sold out on DF's.

 

2) If there is a price increase does anyone have an idea how much is going to be past on to the DF customers?

 

3) Will Gibson be updating the DF website sometime soon with all this new information and clarify what existing and buyers who have paid to order a DF can expect?

 

I realise that you may not have this specific info and I am grateful for any good info you can and do provide.

 

After what is going to be at least a 6 month wait it is a bit disappointing for it to be hinted that the end customers will possibly have to pay extra for the problems that happened. It would be good if Gibson can help put our minds at rest for now on this matter.

 

Of course we all need to talk to our dealers too, to see they will honour the original price or help absorb some of the increase. My dealer has said they will absorb the intitial rise of £442 but know nothing of the latest information particularly the price rise hinted at.

 

 

Cheers

 

Johnny

[Spindrift]

If it's real...Thanks a lot and HALLELUJAH!! Maybe I can play darkfire for the music fiesta!!

[MCK]

Couple of Answers:

 

....

 

 

Steve, quick question. Have you had a chance to get the updates performed on your DarkFire and if so can you kindly update the bug list (dated April 10th) so we can get a glimpse of what we can expect. Thanks for your continued efforts.

[elantric]

I did that last month

 

The Bug list is current and was up dated May 2009.

 

All bugs have been addressed.

 

There is one issue where the piezo may feedback - but only if you are in a high decibel environment.

 

I have a fix for this.

[photonutalan1]

When sending a guitar in for an RMA I encourage you to use the original box and packaging.

 

* Place the guitar in the white case.

* Place white case inside the Black Cardboard box - taking care that the foam rubber lining is above and below the white case .

* Slip the Black Cardboard box inside the Brown cardboard shipping box.

* Call Gibson for an RMA number

 

* In the USA Fedex will arrive within 48 hours and pickup the guitar.

 

 

Thats what I did - The more details the better. I took pictures and described everything wrong with my Dark Fire - in a MS Word document that i printed out in color - 4 pages worth. It was inside the guitar case when I sent mine for RMA.

 

i also made a PDF of it - so that if Gibson Customer service contacted me via email - I could send them the PDF too.

 

This way your expectations will be met.

 

In my case Gibson repaired paint damage due to shipping' date=' polished the fret ends that cut my fingers, fixed the out of phase pickups, and replaced the MCK internal POT with one that does not get stuck.

 

I had detailed each of these items in my "RMA Request Report" i included with the Guitar prior to sending it in for an RMA.

 

[/quote']

 

Elantric,

 

Do we also send back the RIP and black splitter box?

[elantric]

Yes I would

 

Include a note stating you want EVERYTHING updated the May 2009 production specification.

 

There were minor updates.

 

The Charger / Splitter was fixed - to eliminate the 60Hz hum if charging while playing

 

The RIP was updated - to provide minor tweaks to the Piezo Gain structure for improved headroom and dynamic range.

[elantric]

Do we also send back the RIP and black splitter box?

Yes

 

 

Use this as a typical RMA request:

(copy this and paste into your RMA request:)

 

* Please update the Bridge, CPA, PEQ to the May 2009 specifications.

 

* Please update my Charger Splitter box to eliminate the hum while charging

 

* Please swap my RIP unit to the May 2009 specification version - for improved dynamic range.

 

* Please update my Dark Fire Body Firmware to version 2.1.25

 

 

Add any additional issues you are having problems with ( sharp fret edges, sticky MCK pot, etc.

[elantric]

1) If there is only going to be a run of 2000 rather than the 4000 talked about prior, does that mean some dealers may get short changed and then people will lose out despite deposits etc have been paid?

 

 

If I have an existing Dark Fire order in the UK/Europe - i would contact my Gibson Dealer for the latest status.

 

The status of your specific order should be known by your Gibson Dealer - have him contact your regional Gibson distributor for the latest Dark Fire status.

[niemepet]

1) If there is only going to be a run of 2000 rather than the 4000 talked about prior' date=' does that mean some dealers may get short changed and then people will lose out despite deposits etc have been paid?[/quote']

If I have understood correctly. This is what these 2000 guitar are...

 

1) December, Gibson released 2000 guitars in US and 2000 shipped Internationally.

2) There were several bugs found and Gibson stopped International shipping to the warehouses. And took those back to US.

3) After five months fixing, these 2000 guitars are now shipped to International buyers.

 

What I don't understand is:

- US buyers can return their 2000 guitars to Gibson and Gibson repair those without costs (warranty).

- International buyers should pay more, if they want this "bug free" product after waiting six months. (and some of the european customers have their pre-order money in the dealers pocket)

 

Please correct anything I have misunderstood.

 

P.S. I'm not ordering DF, because I have really fine working GOR.

[elantric]

Prior to May 2009 - There were roughly 200 Dark Fires shipped.

 

New production Dark Fire's will be shipped to existing orders - including existing international orders.

 

If you have placed a deposit with your Gibson Dealer - contact him for the latest status.

[Zed91]

that's reaaaally good news. Just a few questions : no fret issues on new DF ? Is RIP shipped with or not ?

[niemepet]

Prior to May 2009 - There were roughly 200 Dark Fires shipped.

Ok, so it is 200 Dark Fires fixed free (=warranty).

 

There will be 2200 Dark Fires in the world.

(200 shipped December 2008 and 2000 shipped after May 2009)

 

Dark Fire is rarer than we thought... (4000 pcs) ;-)

[elantric]

Just a few questions : no fret issues on new DF ?

 

 

Final QC knows to look for this now.

 

 

Is RIP shipped with or not ?

 

I understand you still must send in the Warranty card to your regional Gibson Distributor - then the RIP gets shipped separately to you.

[Zed91]

again, thanks elantric

[MCK]

I did that last month

 

The Bug list is current and was up dated May 2009.

 

All bugs have been addressed.

 

There is one issue where the piezo may feedback - but only if you are in a high decibel environment.

 

I have a fix for this.

 

 

This is wonderful news!!! Thanks for the confirmation.

[dirtypurple]

It is working on reducing the costs of the technologies in the Dark Fire allowing them to be included in more cost effective instruments' date=' and has two new generations in the works with incredible futuristic features.

[/quote']

 

Interesting...working on "two new generations...".

 

Any inside info on what that might mean ?

[PLexxiTronic]

Elantric: It sounds like you've sent your guitar in a second time and have had it returned to you now and that it is upgraded with the new electronics; new RIP; and you've received your Roland cord... Right? If I am correct, I am curious:

 

1) Does the guitar still have that great, long sustain capability--or did it change?

 

2) gplayer100 seems to indicate that original purchasers might want to keep their guitar "as is" and have a, so-called, "rare" version. If you've updated, you would know how both versions sound now... So, does the original have unique (i.e., or better) sound qualities over the newer one? What do you recommend?

 

3) I've been aware of the "pop" noise and the piezo noises, of course. Yet, I have always liked the "acoustic" sound on this guitar. I have never played it very loudly through an amp, however. Is the newer version really a significant improvement even at the low volumes?

 

I might have a couple more questions... But it's too late for me to continue. Thanks.