Andre S Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Are all Gibson USA Les Paul models pleked now? And what about the SG Standards? Does, it make much difference in playability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Who knows, what does gibson.com say? It just gives you more consistent frets, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Who knows' date=' what does gibson.com say? It just gives you more consistent frets, that's all.[/quote'] cant check, their site for me at least isnt loading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Are all Gibson USA Les Paul models pleked now? And what about the SG Standards? Does' date=' it make much difference in playability?[/quote'] Who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmeds Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hey guys, I took this right off of Gibson's web page: "The Making of a Gibson USA Guitar". I think this says it all. And what happens next would blow the founder's mind. Fret filing, once a pain-staking process that required exacting craftsmanship and plenty of time, is now a whole new high-tech ball game. Although some fret filing is still done by hand, many guitars produced by Gibson USA are fine-tuned by one of the two Plek machines on the shop floor. "Right now we advertise that we Plek the Les Paul Standard and the Les Paul Traditional, but we're Pleking a lot of other guitars and just not mentioning it," says supervisor McGee. "With two more machines coming, by year-end we'll be running everything through the Plek machines." Computer-controlled Pleking is a far more accurate way of insuring the best playability of a guitar's neck than the traditional method of using a file to plane down frets and a flat edge to be sure they're uniform. The Plek machines look like a pair of tall, thin glass boxes with armatures and other mechanisms to run cutting tools and measuring devices over guitars. They are accurate within a thousandth of an inch. Each guitar model has its own software template the Plek machine follows. And it takes about 10 minutes for an instrument to complete the process: cutting the nut and filing the frets while simulating string tension to mock playing conditions. Pleking at Gibson began at the Custom Shop, where every guitar gets the treatment. It's an added value for Gibson customers. A trip to a luthier with a Plek machine typically costs $300 or more. Play On! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjammin420 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 If its Plekd it will have a sticker on the bridge pickup. when i got my LP Trad last week it had been plekd and was setup quite nicely, but not any better than other LPs ive played that havent been plekd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I am of the opinion that a robot has no idea what's "playable" for me. My '07 was put through that thing, and I gotta tell you, it took some getting used to compared to my "cheap" Epiphone. I'm thinking it's a gimmick, AND a way for Gibson to lay off a few guys who were doing setups. My '06 SG played WORLDS better than the Lester...the frets were so high on the goldtop it almost felt like it was scalloped...nice guitar, but it needed a setup. It's an expensive gimmick, and Gibson's gotta pay for the thing, so they jack up prices, and add artists names (Jeff Beck Oxblood) to guitars they've had in their lineup for years so they can add another 2 grand to an already out-of-reach guitar for most people. I love Gibsons, but c'mon, let's get real. Gimmick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esch Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 It is a labour and time saving device...I am not convinced it does a "better" job than manual, but probably more consistent results for a factory situation which may be good for the consumer. And it is something for Gibson to brag about and "say" it is a huge advance that significantly improves their products. They can then maintain or increase pricing while reducing their cost over the long run leading to even higher margins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRom Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Right now we advertise that we Plek the Les Paul Standard and the Les Paul Traditional, but we're Pleking a lot of other guitars and just not mentioning it. When I called and asked about my '09 SG I was told no but the statement above seems to contradict that some what. Since it's a lilmited edition I figure it must have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmeds Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'm sure we can all agree that a skilled craftsman or master luthier can dress near perfect frets on any guitar and he'll charge accordingly. The advantage of a laser guided machine is the precision and tight tolerances it can achieve over the human eye. Is a “pleked” fretboard better than one done by hand and eye? Not necessarily, but as was mentioned, it probably produces more consistent results which is the pinnacle that any manufacturer of fine goods wants to achieve. Can anyone imagine what would happen if the Space Shuttle was put together using best guesses and “eyeball” tolerances? Technology does have it’s place in all of our lives, why not for our precious Gibby’s? Has ‘Pleking” diminished the quality of Gibson guitars? I don’t think so. And, it’s not unrealistic to believe that Gibson charges for this “added value” since prices typically go up for anything these days. In the end, I believe all of us will eventually buy into this because no matter what, GAS is something that we’ll suffer all our living days. :) Peace! Play On! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I for one don't trust that plek machine... I don't like a computer doing what hands uised to do. A machine can get it "perfect" yes but by whose standards? As are nine said, more consistent frets, that's all. I think gibson is trying too hard to give more than they should. They should stick to the timeles design and forget about all the hi tech gizmos and processes, if they did that they could easily drop their prices while making a greater profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmeds Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I suppose there is some validity to “hand made” products possessing a special sense of pride and integrity, if the builder or designer possesses such. However, almost all products that are available to the masses are affordable to consumers largely due to technology. Again, it allows for precision in a fraction of the time and labor that a pair of human hands can deliver. That is not to say that everything is manufactured by machinery and computers, there are still and always will be areas that only a pair of human hands can do what machinery cannot. I'm sure Gibson is fully aware of this, and it is evident in much of the finish work that goes into every guitar they craft. Think about this, if the technology of CNC machines weren’t yet invented, we could conclude that Gibby’s or any other brand of guitar would be relatively fewer in number and costly as well. Man hours/labor, particularly those of high skill, account for a huge chunk in the final price to consumers. Yet, CNC machines deliver a product that we all lust and pay for with our hard earned cash. All within a price that we can reach, otherwise this would be nothing more than a Gibson Fantasy Forum. I’m sure that none of us would have a problem boasting about owning a finely crafted guitar “made by hand” just as much as a Historic RI that was initially shaped by a CNC router. I own both and they are special in their own way. In the final analysis, I have not yet heard or read that new technologies, including Pleking was the deal breaker when searching for their dream LP. YMMV Play On Guys/Gals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_one_more Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I have my guitars plek'd when they need to be milled or refretted. It cost a little more, but it really is the best fret milling I have ever had done, and there are a few really great techs around here. The real advantges of having it plek'd is the guitar neck is placed under string load conditions (tensioned). When done by hand it is done with a flat neck, obviously no strings. Not only that but you take the too much coffee, hung-over, pissed at boss, dumped last night etc. human part out if it. I love Gibson guitars and love the fact that they are handmade. I like wood worked by hand, subtle differences between guitars in the neck profiles etc, but when it comes to the little stripes of metal that are only about 0.055 tall, it just doesn't take much to make a string fret out when bending etc. Having a really tightly tol machine doing it is a no brainer for me personally. It seems strange that people are always complaining about the Gibson quality control, and then they do something to make sure the frets are perfectly consistant when they leave the factory, and people complain about that too. Different group of people (I hope), I guess you just can't please everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I don't like a computer doing what hands uised to do. I think that assumes that previous guitars off the line at GibsonUSA had some sort of hand-work fret dressing. I really don't think that any production guitars got a level-and-crown treatment, from any of the major manufacturers. They install the frets and assume that they're reasonably level because a brand new fretboard has just been sanded to the proper radius and everything is clean and new. In fact there are minor variations in the wire and the way it sits in the groove, so there will be highs and lows in the frets even when brand new. That's why a professional setup and a "light dressing" of the frets by a qualified tech after the purchase has always been so important. If you have a neck made up from places like Musikraft or Warmoth or USA Custom Guitars for parts-casters, they recommend that you have the frets dressed, or leveled and crowned, after assembling your guitar. Until now, if you bought a Gibson or Fender you got a very nice instrument that could be made better by a little extra hand work and setup adjustment, but that extra custom work was not included in the price of the factory guitar. Have a guitar made to order from Suhr or Sadowsky or Bonanzinga and of course you're going to expect that level of perfection and handwork. But I don't think you ever got that from a Gibson factory guitar. They install the frets, bevel the ends with a file, and off you go. If you want it to be perfect, it's capable of it, but needs additional handwork. So now, by machine, they can do in a production setting what you used to pay for separately afterwards. My point is that a Plek treatment is an added service that you didn't get before on a factory made guitar. So I see it as a major plus in terms of the quality you can expect from a factory made guitar. And I am delighted with the action on my '07 ES339 and my '09 Traditional so they must be doing something right. It doesn't matter if a good tech can do just as good a job, the fact is that a volume factory cannot possibly give you that extra service without a Plek machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esch Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 'zackly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I think that assumes that previous guitars off the line at GibsonUSA had some sort of hand-work fret dressing. I really don't think that any production guitars got a level-and-crown treatment' date=' from any of the major manufacturers. They install the frets and assume that they're reasonably level because a brand new fretboard has just been sanded to the proper radius and everything is clean and new. In fact there are minor variations in the wire and the way it sits in the groove, so there will be highs and lows in the frets even when brand new. That's why a professional setup and a "light dressing" of the frets by a qualified tech after the purchase has always been so important. If you have a neck made up from places like Musikraft or Warmoth or USA Custom Guitars for parts-casters, they recommend that you have the frets dressed, or leveled and crowned, after assembling your guitar. Until now, if you bought a Gibson or Fender you got a very nice instrument that could be made better by a little extra hand work and setup adjustment, but that extra custom work was not included in the price of the factory guitar. Have a guitar made to order from Suhr or Sadowsky or Bonanzinga and of course you're going to expect that level of perfection and handwork. But I don't think you ever got that from a Gibson factory guitar. They install the frets, bevel the ends with a file, and off you go. If you want it to be perfect, it's capable of it, but needs additional handwork. So now, by machine, they can do in a production setting what you used to pay for separately afterwards. My point is that a Plek treatment is an added service that you didn't get before on a factory made guitar. So I see it as a major plus in terms of the quality you can expect from a factory made guitar. And I am delighted with the action on my '07 ES339 and my '09 Traditional so they must be doing something right. It doesn't matter if a good tech can do just as good a job, the fact is that a volume factory cannot possibly give you that extra service without a Plek machine. [/quote'] =D> =D> Exactly the kind of response I was looking for! Now everyone can read it and stop *****ing... as I always say: whatever the guys at gibson decide to do, they have good reasons to do it, after all, they are the experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbursted Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I was on a fire mission in the ARMY and I was one of two guys in the unit who was trained the old way to set up a Artillery Battery and we had loads of privates and spec's that went through FIST Training and had no idea how to do the mission manually. Well these guys were talking crap and how impressive the new computer system was (and it was impressive) but we received a immediate suppression mission (drop what your doing' date=' fire those rounds asap) and this was their chance to shine. They could not get the generator fired up and we broke out the calculators and the plotting board and it took about 5 minutes to get the settings to send the rounds down range, but we still beat those younger guys who could not get the generator started. I am sure now the ARMY has found out ways to get around this now but this is a great example. [/quote'] Nothing beats the old reliable methods. Yesterday during a flight test, my engineers were in a panic because the computer crashed that they were using to figure out the conversion from pressure altitude to density altitude. I told them not to worry about it because I had a circular slide rule (E6B for those who know) with me that took about 2 seconds to compute. These kids could not even comprehend how to use one of these. Got to love those charts and darts guitarest!!! Pleking is nice, but not a show stopper for me if it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I think plek has become very overrated and now used as a selling point. Yet another thing that is no longer done by hand! More machines... Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 ^ What's next, a guitar tunes itself? And I am delighted with the action on my '07 ES339 and my '09 Traditional so they must be doing something right. I emailed Gibson about this. Not all 2007s were pleked. My 335 was made on the 57th day of 2007; so' date=' end of February. That was right around the time they started doing it. Mine may or may not be pleked, they couldn't say. If yours is an early 2007, it also may not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbursted Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 ^ What's next' date=' a guitar tunes itself? [/quote'] They already have that, it's called the Robot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I emailed Gibson about this. Not all 2007s were pleked. If yours is an early 2007' date=' it also may not be.[/quote'] Plek treatment was part of the spec for the new model ES339 which didn't go into production, I don't believe, until September. My ES was shipped in October, 2007. Anyway it's good to know that Memphis started using it earlier than that as far as the grown-up ES models are concerned (Sorry, Murph). Has anyone heard if Fender/Guild/Ovation/Adamas, PRS, Martin, or Taylor are using Plek systems on new guitars yet? Not for anything, if you went on a trek yesterday, doesn't that mean you trekked? Before Star Wars there were Trekkies? So I'll stick with Plekked until they take my guns away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba_leon Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I was hoping that buying a pleked Les Paul was going to render an amazing innovation, I have to say it falls a bit short of the mark. I sorted through at least five pleked Les Pauls, before actually finding one that felt right. I found that many of them still buzzed or had dead spots. My tech at SF Guitarworks recently stated that he has had several plecked LP's come in his shop for setups and fret dresses. At least Gibson is not using this as a excuse to jack up their prices or at least not the model I bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Well, I received a reply from CS and the SG Standards are NOT pleked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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