earthtrip Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Hi all - I'm contemplating getting an SJ-200 and have been reading about them (I've played them a bunch of times and really like them) a lot online while I save up for the purchase. I see on the Gibson site as well as all the reseller sites touting that they are "hand crafted" in Montana. Is this just marketing jibberish or are these higher end Gibsons really hand made? I can't imagine they could hand make them and still have them available at hundreds of dealers around the globe all the time. I'm assuming that: hand crafted is not equal to hand made. I'd appreciate it if anyone who actually knows (i.e. not just speculation) what the phrase really implies I'd appreciate it. For over a $3000 guitar I'd rather not get a machine made instrument. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Here is a factory tour, of the Gibson USA Factory. It will give you a little more insight. Here is the link for the Acoustic Factory in Montana. And here is the link for a special tour of the Gibson Masterbuilt Museum Collection. And Welcome to the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Welcome to the forum. Gibson acoustics are mostly still made and assembled by human hands. They use a machine to cut the joint for the neck, but most of the other work is still done by hand. I've been on the tour of the Bozeman facility (as have many other forum members as well) and have personally witnessed the work done there. The employees all care greatly about the work that they do and take much pride in doing it. Gibson only produces approximately 65 acoustic guitars at their Bozeman facility each working day. Each guitar is made to fill an order. If they don't have an order for a particular model, it's not made on that particular day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthtrip Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 Thanks guys for the welcome and for the great information. Feeling much more comfortable and knowledgeable about how Gibson makes their guitars. :) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthtrip Posted March 28, 2008 Author Share Posted March 28, 2008 One other question for you guys. It seems that all the SJ-200 models have pickups in them. Is that not something that's optional anymore? Does it affect the sound at all as compared to a non-pickup version? I don't really need a pickup in it as I'm not doing any live playing at the moment but if it doesn't affect the sound and it's a high quality pickup I guess it'd be fine. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 As an example, the Hummingbird Modern Classics have electronics, yet the Hummingbird True Vintage models do not. It's the same way for the SJ models. The modern classics do, but the true vintage models don't. There some other differences as well of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodehopper Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I am no expert, but asked a similar question when I got my CJ-165 that came standard with the Under Saddle Pick-up. I replaced the original saddle with a compensated bone saddle from ---> http://www.guitarsaddles.com/ Bob Colosi who owns the business is a great resource for guitar saddle info and I asked him if he felt that an under saddle pick up effected the sound and he said in his experience it does not have much effect at all. I also posted my question on a few guitar boards and a guy who had also recently purchased a CJ-165 replied back to me that he had had concerns and had removed his under saddle pick up and he was terribly disappointed that he ended up not hearing any difference in the before and after. He recommended to me to leave mine in. My suggestion would be to go ahead and if the one you love has the factory electronics ....... go for it and don't worry about it. If you really wanted the best of both worlds.........you could always buy a second saddle that has a bit more height and pull out the under saddle pick up and install the new saddle (adjusting the saddle height to make up for the lack of material the under saddle pick up would have provided) ....then if you ever do want to plug in you can just install the original saddle and the pick up and you are ready to go. Did I mention I am no expert???? ok....I did.... LOL !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsc Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 "Is this just marketing jibberish or are these higher end Gibsons really hand made?" All Montana Gibsons are high end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsc Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 Also there is a very good reason they refer to the J200 as "the king of the flattops" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 "Hand crafted" is a glamor word with not much legal meaning. All that it can indicate is that human hands, sometime in the assembly process, put some or all of it together. At one extreme I looked at a cuckoo clock that was billed as 'Hand Carved.' By my estimation, the outline of the leaves and branches were cut from flat stock and applied to the front of the clock. "Carved?" I thought? Further examination revealed that the 'leaves' had a few veins cut in them to approximate leaf mid-ribs and veins as well as bark on the 'stems'. The carving probably took the carver all of 30 seconds to accomplish. But.. it was, none-the-less, 'hand carved.' To be sure I've seen more intricate work, but for hundreds of dollars more. What is 'Hand Made"? Did the Luthier cut and shape ALL the wooden parts? Did he fabricate all the hardware? Did he use all hand tools? How much machinery is allowed to be considered "Hand Made". Some 'Hand Made' instruments, mandolins, let's say are 'hand carved'. Some 'hand carvers' allow a machine to rough out the shape of the arched mandolin tops by removing most of the unwanted material. The final shaping is in deed done by hand. Is this "Hand Made"? Is it permissible to use powered equipment to finish and do the final buffing? Is this hand crafting? Yup, "Hand Crafted" is a bit of a fuzzy term. It just sounds 'nice' and elicits a 'warm feeling' to the customer. It's marketing. When you shuck right down to the cob, as long as quality is there and the tone is what you want.. who cares? (Machinery can make tighter joints than human hands) Take the Gibson tour and decide for yourself. :D/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 "Hand-crafted", generously, means human hands were involved in the build process. It certainly does not denote that sawdust-covered elves were busy hand-carving every part of the instrument and then lovingly assembling it, resulting in some kind of creation that is superior to "non-hand-crafted" equivalents made elsewhere. There is, as Mike and others have indicated, a measure of hand-building that goes into Gibsons -- that is inescapable. But the repetitive tasks, such as cutting tops, thicknessing tops, carving necks, cutting headstocks and soundholes, are all better done by CNC machines. One, they save workers from certain types of repetitive-motion injury, and second, they tend to result in a higher-quality more uniform build. Hand-fit dovetail joint assembly, finishing, final neck shaping -- these and many other aspects of the guitar's construction are done by hand. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 One other question for you guys. It seems that all the SJ-200 models have pickups in them. Is that not something that's optional anymore? Does it affect the sound at all as compared to a non-pickup version? I don't really need a pickup in it as I'm not doing any live playing at the moment but if it doesn't affect the sound and it's a high quality pickup I guess it'd be fine. Thanks Mike It really is a personal preference. I make my living using my ears and I have to tell you the difference is not noticeable whatsoever to me. I do know a lot of Blugrass pureist who will think that you are the Antichrist if you add a pickup to a guitar. Most prefer to just mic it. I find an amplified acoustics's electronics to be very convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibtex5 Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 It certainly does not denote that sawdust-covered elves were busy hand-carving every part of the instrument and then lovingly assembling it Gosh, another bubble burst. I love elves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 There is no way that shrimer or anyone else for that matter could know this for certain, since the elves will only work when cloaked under the cover of darkness. No human type has ever actually seen them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaibhistin Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Well, my "handmade" SWD has a few lacquer drops on the fret board and a slight over-sanded mark on the neck. I get the impression there as a fair bit of machinery involved in its construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted March 30, 2008 Share Posted March 30, 2008 Well it is true enough that there are routers, belt sanders, planers, band saws, coping saws, files,etc. used in the making of these fine instruments. But it is also true enough that there are skilled crafts people operating these machines as it would be very difficult to just "whittle" one out of a log. And it is also true enough that there are skilled crafts people doing the finer details of assembly and inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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