Circle of fifths

[hippieparadox]

Gotten back in to studying my theory, and a little stuck in understanding the circle of fifths. I need some sort of in-depth explanation if anyone can spare the time. Thanks.

[CoffeeGuitarRum]

Hi hippieparadox, ahh yeah, the good old cycle of 4ths and 5ths. What do you need to know?

[hippieparadox]

How does the circle work? From what I know, you start in a given key. Then somehow you're supposed to be able to count all the sharps and flats in said key? I don't understand the mechanics of it for some reason...

[CoffeeGuitarRum]

Hi, yeah it can be used to primarily work out all major scales in every key. Then by flattening certain scale degrees you can convert the major scale in to all other scales/modes etc. Then from there, arpeggios can be constructed.

 

To construct the cycle, it's normally easier to draw a circle and start with 'C' at the top and F#/Gb right at the bottom. Then starting out clockwise for 4th and anti-clockwise for the 5ths. So clockwise the notes go around to Gb which will also be F# on the 5ths side. See below:

 

Clockwise:

C

F-Bb

Bb-Eb

Eb-Bb-Ab

Ab-Eb-Bb-Db

Db-Ab-Eb-Bb-Gb

Gb-Db-Ab-Eb-Bb-Cb(:D

 

Anti-Clockwise:

So we already know that 'C' is a the top so count five up from C and that will give you G, G will be the next note up from C on the 5ths side (anti-clockwise side). The first note of the cycle on either side of the clock on ever has one # or b, then going up they increase by 1 each time.

C

G-F#

D-F#-C#

A-F#-C#-G#

E-F#-C#-G#-D#

B-F#-C#-G#-D#-A#

F#-C#-G#-D#-A#-E#

 

You will see some common smilarities between the each constructed on each side, all 4th scales have a Bb and all 5th scales have an F#. For the notes on either side where you come across: Cb this note will be B and E# this note will be F.

 

I hope that helps. Any other questions feel free to ask and I'll try my best to help.

[cjlandry]

Here's a nice, simple explanation:

 

http://guitaristguitarist.com/guitar_music_theory.html

 

 

Also, here's a reasonably priced book with a nice "Chord wheel":

 

http://www.amazon.com/Chord-Wheel-Ultimate-Musicians-Instructional/dp/0634021427/ref=pd_cp_b_1#reader_0634021427

 

Reviews look good, and the cover of the book (shown) is the wheel. I'm gonna order one, because I'm too lazy to make my own. ;)

[sjl200]

I use have a "Chord Wheel" and use it often.

Its a very good tool. After several months you will even start to understand it with out using or thinking too much about it.

 

 

Works for me....

 

[Robin Nahum]

When I was attending jazz classes, the teacher had a diagram of the cycle permanently on his whiteboard and would often refer to it when analysing a chart.

 

The idea he stressed was that moving in 4ths (rather than 5ths) is very pervasive in jazz and if you are fluent in the cycle, memorising chord sequences becomes that much easier.

 

Have a look at the chords for "I Got Rhythm" especially the bridge, and "Autumn Leaves".

 

RN

[cjlandry]

Interactive Circle of Fifths:

 

http://randscullard.com/CircleOfFifths/

 

If you use Explorer, you can download it and then open it from your hard drive.

[Mad Rax]

Very nice explanations!

It also helps to use your fingers and understand the mechanics of it, play your old n easy power chord with the root on:

 

 

8th fret sixth string, down to 8th fret fifth string.

Back two frets; 6th fret sixth string, 6th fret fifth string

Back two frets; 4th fret sixth string, 4th fret fifth string

Back two frets; 2nd fret sixth string, 2nd fret fifth string

 

Instead of playing open strings go up an octave;

12th fret sixth string, 12th fret fifth string

Back two frets;10th fret sixth string, 10th fret fifth string

Back two frets And you´ve returned to the 8th fret sixth string

 

This way you have played, felt and heard the cicle of fifths. All 12 of them.

You can use any chord that you know instead of the power chord (Major, minor, Dominant, etc.) As a matter of fact it is oftenly used, by jazz players, to play a Major seventh - Dominant on each fret. Both chords before switching your position.

[kaicho8888]

Interactive Circle of Fifths:

 

http://randscullard.com/CircleOfFifths/

 

If you use Explorer, you can download it and then open it from your hard drive.

 

Thanks ...downloaded and it works..

[amplifiercity]

Gotten back in to studying my theory, and a little stuck in understanding the circle of fifths. I need some sort of in-depth explanation if anyone can spare the time. Thanks.

 

to be able to fully make sense of it, you have to know about keys, some notation, intervals, and interval inversion. A lot of guitar methods mention 'the circle of fifths' as if all there is to know is a chord progression, but actually it's a lot more than that.

 

Short answer: going upward in the circle, in FIFTHS, you add a new sharp in the key, e.g. key of C, key of G, key of D, etc. Going DOWNWARD, in FIFTHS (or going upward in fourths), you add a new FLAT in the key, e.g. key of C, key of F, key of Bb, etc

 

But again....it's like wanting to know how electricity works without knowing that water conducts it. See, the notation system is a system devised centuries ago that organizes all the mechanics of music into a tidy method. Once you understand all it's basic rules, music is no longer such a mysterious or abstract thing that just happens or it doesn't.

 

The funny thing is that it seems so crazy and arbitrary to the 'initiate'.....but it is actually devised from natural laws of physics and sound, such as the 'harmonic series'.

 

Big subject. And people who just go 'naaaah, that's just mumbo-jumbo' and try to diminish it's importance, are actually the ones who don't understand it no offence to you, I am just speaking in general. Even I could not understand it at first, I used to tear my theory books apart.

[jdgm]

I'm a bit late to this one, but it became totally simple to understand and clear to me when I realised that the top four notes of any major scale are also the bottom four notes of the next one. Obviously these four note groups must always have the same intervals for this to work. They are called tetrachords.

[MatthiasYoung]

Something I wanted to throw in here is not just how important it is to know the Circle of Fifths, but understanding a key in and of itself so that you know what chord qualities are associated with specific scale degrees. Some basic theory information on the four chord qualities can be seen here.

 

I love theory, and understanding concepts of theory in a practical application for the guitar can really open up your playing. If you do not already have an instructor, I highly recommend one!

[zigzag]

Clockwise:

C

F-Bb

Bb-Eb

Eb-Bb-Ab

Ab-Eb-Bb-Db

Db-Ab-Eb-Bb-Gb

Gb-Db-Ab-Eb-Bb-Cb(:D

 

Anti-Clockwise:

C

G-F#

D-F#-C#

A-F#-C#-G#

E-F#-C#-G#-D#

B-F#-C#-G#-D#-A#

F#-C#-G#-D#-A#-E#

 

Locate these notes on the 6th and 5th strings. You should see a pattern developing. Seeing this pattern is easier for me than memorizing the circle of fifths. Note also the number of sharps or flats in each key starting from C.