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Flight959

Modern Gibson investments?

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Dave' date='

 

You always have the best Avatars!!

 

BTW...My Gibson Cabinet is coming home soon... It was completed a while ago...just waiting to finish the renovation in my house before I can make room for it..

 

Regards

Thanks Guys..[/quote']

 

Hey thanks man... Your avatar is very cool as well! I love special FX... ;)

 

BTW... Did you do a Tim special guitar cabinet too? When I saw his I loved it and asked him to send me the plans. There were no plans but he sent me some good photos and I had it made from that. I get so many comments on it and I always give Tim his credit. I hope you post some pics of it I'd love to see your version. I did mine slightly oversized and it can hold a couple more guitars than Tim's original design. He suggested that I make mine a bit bigger. I'm glad I did too because my JP EDS 1275 just makes it in...

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Collectors have their place, some have saved some instruments from getting hacked by musicians or played to death in a shitty bar somewhere.

 

Some collectors actually lend pieces of their collection for special performances.

 

Some studios own classic instruments and rent them for recordings, including original bursts.

 

Hard to say what will be collectible in the future but nothing like the phenomenon of the late 50's Gibsons.

 

Look at this 1952 Les Paul for sale locally, even with the original case only asking $16,000, after 57 years.

 

http://nashville.craigslist.org/msg/1420292529.html

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I think you won't loose a dime if you sell them in 10 years time. Sell them before that and you will' date=' after that, I think worst case scenario, you'll break even. The cost of new ones will go up and used prices will follow.

 

Unless I am mistaken, a brand new R9 was around $3,500 around the year 2000. Now that's a good price on a used one. Today, those older R9s are worth what they cost brand new simply because new R9s have skyrocketed in price. I'm sure prices will continue to go up over the years (if Gibson is still around) and as new prices continue to go up, so will used.[/quote']

 

Gibson's not going anyware. ; )

:-kO:)

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I think everyone's been gobsmacked by the increase in value in '58-60 Les Paul Standards. Remember two things: one' date=' Gibson made only around 1700 of them, then stopped. Two, they became valuable not because COLLECTORS were buying them, but because well known MUSICIANS were.

 

Collectibility seems to be contagious: look at Cabbage Patch dolls, Dutch tulips, '57 Chevrolets. Every one these fads has a common outcome: a lot of people spent a lot of money which could not be recouped once the market collapsed. And, I'll bet, every one of the collectors was sure that the market would forever go up. You could add dotcoms and credit default swaps to the list -- the capacity for greed and self-deception is inherent in us.

 

So the LP Standards increased in value. Many horse traders took note, and started promoting "old" guitars as "vintage." Currently it's the conventional wisdom that something old is something valuable, but that is not the case*. A guitar has an intrinsic value, which may be defined as what it is worth to the owner, or conversely what it would be cost to replace.

 

There will never be more than roughly 1700 Les Paul Standards from the late fifties-early sixties. No doubt, many have been altered, butchered, mutilated, destroyed or otherwise taken out of circulation permanently. If you are a dealer, what do you do? All the bursts are spoken for, essentially, and you know it's highly unlikely you'll ever find another; so you do the sensible thing (sensible, that is, for a dealer) and start flogging the crap. This explains why LP Jrs are going up in value: they (and various other inexpensive models) are what's left. This promotion then becomes the accepted norm, and pretty soon junk that no one in his right mind would have bought when they were new is being bid to high figures on eBay.

 

I saw a Norlin Les Paul Deluxe not too long ago listed for $9K. I bought my '70 for $750. There are two responses to those two facts: one is to say, damn! I'm gonna put my up on eBay and get rich! The other, which is my own, is to say, "that's nuts." Or, more accurately, wishful thinking. Someone once said that vintage guitars are priced according to the "biggest fool" theory: what would the biggest fool pay for this thing? Sometimes that strategy works, but sooner or later one finds that oneself has been the biggest fool.

 

Owners of modern Les Pauls, certain that lightning is going to strike in precisely the same place once again, think they are making investments. Does anyone know how many LPs have been churned out in the last 24 years, when Henry J took over? I venture to say, more than 1700. Another forum that I frequent had people list their Les Pauls, with a running total. The last I looked, it was going on 4000 -- and those are only the ones in the hands of that relatively small group. Would a '57 Chevrolet Bel Air be more valuable if GM started manufacturing reproductions (OK, I know that can't happen)? And what about the value of the repros -- how many old guys (the only ones who really care about the '57s, these days) would buy one? The guys in the right age bracket who want one either have the real thing, or they are dead. Before long, Les Pauls will once again be old fashioned, which is one of the reasons they were dropped by Gibson in 1960.

 

So buy a guitar that you love to play, and forget about "investment." You may never cash out; but if you buy to play, you'll get satisfaction every time you pick it up.

_______

* Here's a short anecdote: a guy I knew years ago grew up in the thirties, and had become one of the serious post-WWII hot rodders. When I knew him, he was running a '29-A roadster on '32 rails with a small block Chevy at the drag races. One day, someone came into the garage with a meti****usly restored 1925 Model T. Naturally, everyone made a big fuss over it. My friend snorted and said, "Damn things were no good when they were new."[/quote']

 

+ALOT

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If a guitar keeps up with inflation, you'll be lucky. Lightning has to strike before you start getting returns like you might on a '58 Les Paul. If you want a guitar, buy a guitar. If you want an investment, buy stocks or bonds.

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If a guitar keeps up with inflation' date=' you'll be lucky. Lightning has to strike before you start getting returns like you might on a '58 Les Paul. If you want a guitar, buy a guitar. If you want an investment, buy stocks or bonds.[/quote']THAT is the smartest thing I have EVER heard ANYONE say about ANYTHING!

 

I'm not being sarcastic, I really do agree. I was just looking for an excuse to use that line, thank you.

 

Only people who can't appreciate the true overall beauty (looks, sound, playability, etc) buy guitars (not just LPs) as investments...or, they CAN'T play (which is often the case)!

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Serious musicians and aficionados, as well as boomers prone to playing air guitar when no one's looking, have realized that a guitar's appeal only grows over time. This translates to good investment strategy. "We have never seen the prices grow as quickly as [in] the last three or four years; we're shocked every couple of weeks when we hear about something being offered at a price that's so much higher than what we thought the price [should be]," says Stan Jay of Mandolin Brothers, Ltd., in Staten Island, New York. For example, a 1959 Fender Sunburst Stratocaster with a slab fingerboard initially would have cost about $250, but by 1997, it was fetching between $8,000 and $9,000. you'd have to ante up to $17,000 for the same guitar.

 

from: FORBES MONEY MAGAZINE ,

 

there is a lot online one should look at about investment guitars if you have that interest. And remember there are collectors out there who have a few million as pocket change. For 40 yrs guitars have been a sure bet. Some surprise with quicker profits than others but always a sure bet.

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Serious musicians and aficionados, as well as boomers prone to playing air guitar when no one's looking, have realized that a guitar's appeal only grows over time. This translates to good investment strategy. "We have never seen the prices grow as quickly as [in] the last three or four years; we're shocked every couple of weeks when we hear about something being offered at a price that's so much higher than what we thought the price [should be]," says Stan Jay of Mandolin Brothers, Ltd., in Staten Island, New York. For example, a 1959 Fender Sunburst Stratocaster with a slab fingerboard initially would have cost about $250, but by 1997, it was fetching between $8,000 and $9,000. you'd have to ante up to $17,000 for the same guitar.

 

from: FORBES MONEY MAGAZINE ,

 

there is a lot online one should look at about investment guitars if you have that interest. And remember there are collectors out there who have a few million as pocket change. For 40 yrs guitars have been a sure bet. Some surprise with quicker profits than others but always a sure bet. I don't agree with forget about investment even with the guitars I love to play. I will be leaving behind more guitars than my kids would care to keep around. Leaving with instructions on how to sell the ones they don't keep for sure. Back to the beach with my Uke. Peace.

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Dave,

 

Here's the cabinet before it was finished...

 

letterstop.jpg

lettop.jpg

Cab.jpg

Cab2.jpg

 

Its finished now... I went to see it at the weekend...

 

When I get it home I will post more pics and an inside look in the top...

 

Thanks again to Dave and Tim...

 

Hey Tim its alot bigger than imagined...

 

Regards

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The investment is in yourself and the love of the music. If you make any money if you decide to sell your Gibson then you are in a win win situation.

 

Excellent advice.

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Dave' date='

 

Here's the cabinet before it was finished...

 

[img']http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee211/flight959/letterstop.jpg[/img]

lettop.jpg

Cab.jpg

Cab2.jpg

 

Its finished now... I went to see it at the weekend...

 

When I get it home I will post more pics and an inside look in the top...

 

Thanks again to Dave and Tim...

 

Hey Tim its alot bigger than imagined...

 

Regards

It's going to take one hell of an oyster, to get enough MOP for that inlay! lol

 

That's AWESOME!

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Dave' date='

 

Here's the cabinet before it was finished...

 

[img']http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee211/flight959/Cab.jpg[/img]

 

 

Its finished now... I went to see it at the weekend...

 

When I get it home I will post more pics and an inside look in the top...

 

Thanks again to Dave and Tim...

 

Hey Tim its alot bigger than imagined...

 

Regards

 

Hey Flight.... Very nice indeed!! What did you do in the interior?

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I read all the time both here and MLP about how people buy a Gibson guitar as an investment. I would have thought that the days of investment in guitars have gone. Isnt Gibson producing more guitars over a period of months what used to take a year? I have been very fortunate to get my two custom shop Gibson's at a very reasonable price but I would be silly to think they would be worth more in ten years time. I am of the opinion that if the guitar has been looked after and she's a player then the day you come to sell her' date=' she will have achieved nothing more than to have held her value...

 

What do you guys think?

 

Regards[/quote']

 

With the exception of very small run specials, WRT current production instruments you are quite right. It becomes a matter of just retaining original retail value rather than any significant appreciation. I recently decided to churn my collection a bit and sold off seven guitars, all bought in the 90s, all custom shop of one brand or another. After selling costs I basically recouped the original investment, that's all, but in fact that was all I expected. It has been interesting to watch some of the "tier 3" (late 60s, early 70s) vintage items in recent years. Their selling prices have slowly risen as the more mainstream buyers see the more desirable years' items appreciate beyond their reach. What was shunned as junk ten years ago (i.e., early 70s Gibson & Fender) are now starting to fetch respectable prices, which seem to be driven by price increases on current production.

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Dave' date='

 

Here's the cabinet before it was finished...

 

[img']http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee211/flight959/letterstop.jpg[/img]

lettop.jpg

Cab.jpg

Cab2.jpg

 

Its finished now... I went to see it at the weekend...

 

When I get it home I will post more pics and an inside look in the top...

 

Thanks again to Dave and Tim...

 

Hey Tim its alot bigger than imagined...

 

Regards

 

 

 

very nicely done.

so when can i put in my order?

ready for Christmas?

excellent!

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Hey Flight.... Very nice indeed!! What did you do in the interior?

 

The lid opens and is supported by 2 hinges.. The interior has been lined with green felt and has dividers which can be moved. I have a Gibson for each shelf and hey if I ever get another, she can fit in the top.

 

I will post pictures with guitars on the shelves when I get it home... Dont know how im going to do that it's bloody massive..

 

Regards

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"Serious musicians and aficionados' date=' as well as boomers prone to playing air guitar when no one's looking, have realized that a guitar's appeal only grows over time. This translates to good investment strategy. "We have never seen the prices grow as quickly as [in'] the last three or four years; we're shocked every couple of weeks when we hear about something being offered at a price that's so much higher than what we thought the price [should be]," says Stan Jay of Mandolin Brothers, Ltd., in Staten Island, New York. For example, a 1959 Fender Sunburst Stratocaster with a slab fingerboard initially would have cost about $250, but by 1997, it was fetching between $8,000 and $9,000."

 

As another Forbes article points out, "Besides being in mint condition (with original parts, electronics and paint), the guitars must be tied to an artist or event that resonates in the modern popular conscience." Jimi Hendrix will probably stay in that spot. Will 80's ESPs like Kirk Hammett used still be collectible 30 years from now? Will a modern Gibson be worth enough to be a good investment? 70's models sometimes don't sell for as much as a new LP Standard.

 

A name like Gibson or Fender will tend to hold good value. So from a financial standpoint, it's better to buy one of those versus a lesser known guitar, even if that guitar happens to be better made. As a secondary characteristic, that's a nice plus. As a primary investment? No way. Most of the guitars on the market will probably never be worth anything as an investment, most of the rest won't be worthwhile compared to traditional methods, and a small handful will be worth big bucks. If you've got an eye for those guitars, invest away. Otherwise, guitars are guitars first and investments by good fortune.

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This is very true indeed, JustinH, This being the main reason when the JPCs came out I got three to begin with. One to play and two to see what happenes and hope they would be sought after. Then the 002 came availiable and a dealer knowing my interest got it for me. I wasn't alone in wanting it, the first to come up with cash wins and I moved quickly with 22k. It was actually to go to a friend of Pages. Dan Hawkins ( Darkness) I believe, who did end up with the 001 of 500 instead. There were two number ones. The first 25 of the pilot edition were signed by page behind the stock. Page still has this number one. He is holding it on the latest edition of Guitar Afficianado, Hawkins has already altered his 001 of 500 as found in pictures and videos on the web. Now it more resembles the original lost Black Beauty with the open pups on one set. This trivial information took myself and gibson people some time to research. So far as we know this version of trivia is correct. If anyone knows otherwise I would appreciate letting me know. My 002 is going to NYC to a now undisclosed location for display. It will be made public soon. Still only out of the case a few time for pictures. What a beauty!

 

Now on the matter of plain old les paul customs without artist connection I would like to say what sparked my interest in collecting originally was when a good friend of mine found a Sunburst Les Paul from 1960s in the closet of a rehab facility that was slated to be torn down in Seattle. The box was still stapled shut. I think the original price was around 400.00. He kept it and had it appraised at a huge increace of price. I can't remember how much but it was alot. He worked in the music business and knew it was valuable.

 

Another friend who was a logger in N. Cal redwoods, found an old Martin Classical in an abandoned makeshift cabin in an area they were clear cutting. He got thousands for it and it was beat up.

 

I love my guitars and music, it is my favorite pass time. I know many say just play it and love it but I do enjoy following guitar trivia and being able to fund my habit at the same time. I still gig in mine and other studios coast to coast from time to time, but am not trying to make a living at it anymore. Just fun.

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I think they do a good job of retaining their value--that's about all you can hope for. It might be a different story if something happens to Gibson.

 

If you wanted a good investment you should have dumped your money in stocks about three or four months ago.

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Hmmm. Like I said guitar investments and trivia are just a hobby and have done well funding my Gas. Gold has been my best investment the past two years and land second. Then stocks and securities. Remember music is fun. I also enjoy giving good guitars to kids that show initiative. That is most rewarding of all. Back to the beach. Peace.

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 I have, and use as my main gigging tool, a 2012 Custom shop J45. I bought a CS as it offered the pick up I wanted  ( Trance acoustic) the   higher quality workmanship and wood ( adirondack top which has a different sound, Adirondack bracing)  and also because it offered  the tone i wanted. Like many working non famous musicians I have been lusting after a J45 with that classic tone for a long time.  I suspect that  long term its value will increase , if only because stuff like the higher quality than standard J45 rosewood  for the fretboard and bridge, pattern grade  Honduras hog B&S, will become  desirable in a futre of Richlite, Micarta, Ebonite, Sapele, Khaya and Tusq. And only 200 were made. 

Edited by T.Lime
spelling

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The thing about those 57 - 60 LP's is there were not as many made as compared to today. Gibson probably pumps out as many made in those 4 years as the do now  in 4 months. And they have been put up so high on a pedestal that only Joe Bonamassa and football team owners can afford them.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper

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6 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

And they have been put up so high on a pedestal that only Joe Bonamassa and football team owners can afford them.

 

But at least Bonamassa tours with some of them,  and actually knows what to do with them, unlike football team owners

 

Chalk it up to a 9yr old thread though 

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12 hours ago, Eracer_Team said:

 

But at least Bonamassa tours with some of them,  and actually knows what to do with them, unlike football team owners

 

Chalk it up to a 9yr old thread though 

Your right about that. Saw Joe open for BB about 13 years ago.

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