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Schaller strap lock installation tricks and tips.


NeoConMan

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Here's a couple of pics to clarify any misconceptions about my Schaller installation method.

 

(If you don't see any pics, refresh the screen. They should pop up the second time - it's a Gibson thing...)

 

No patent applied for, feel free to copy this all you want to.

I consider this a labor of love, helping those who love their guitars as much as I do...

 

:-)

 

You've surely heard me tell you to throw away the screws that come with the Schallers.

If they so happen to match the screws that are in the guitar, then it doesn't matter.

This has never occurred for me, and I refuse to cross-thread a different screw in the body and damage threads.

 

Either use the Gibson screws that came in the guitar, or go to the hardware store to buy exact replacements.

Length and diameter of the screw is not the main consideration - make sure the thread pitch/count is the same.

When I buy screws for anything, I get stainless when I can - never rust.

 

 

 

First off, go to Home Depot or any other hardware store and getcha some of these;

Danco faucet washers made of buna rubber, will NOT harm the finish.

(Not in the last 6 years anyway....)

 

You can see the finished result in the background.

 

3930550314_747916116a.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the Schaller pin after being drilled out so the original Gibson screw will slide through.

The hole needs to be drilled out to 11/64" or 4 mm.

 

3929764535_85143b8954.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the bottom view of the Schaller pin after drilling.

Note also the side of the screw head has been ground down slightly.

This is not needed on all Gibson screws, if it will slide inside the new pin then you're good.

On a Les Paul the screw for the bottom end pin is bigger than the one on the upper bout by the neck.

 

3929765973_0edf976d79.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the finished assembly before tightening.

The difference you should see here is how much deeper the factory screw will drop down inside the pin.

Without the rubber washer for a spacer, the screw would penetrate further than it does on the factory pin.

 

3929767451_a678844a29.jpg

 

 

This additional penetration depth would not be an issue in this application.

Anywhere space is limited could cause a problem though.

 

Installation on the back of guitars such as my SG and ES-335 would make me nervous because there's not much room to spare. Hate to punch through something or split wood that was not pre-drilled deep enough.

You MUST use a washer or spacer of some sort!

 

 

Tightening is easier now, you know when to stop.

Go until you feel resistance as the washer compresses, and observe that it begins to bulge slightly.

These washers are more than firm enough to keep the screw from bending sideways.

 

The washers also buy you some forgiveness if you drop the guitar on the end pin.

The rubber will absorb some shock from a moderate force without the screw snapping off.

It's tucked up safely inside the pin now, remember?

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  • 5 months later...

I went ahead and purchased the EXACT rubber washers posted above from HomeDepot. Installed it on my precious SG Standard while putting on the Schaller Locks. 3 days later I took them off to see if the finish had been damaged, and sure enough, it took away some wood/finish from the guitar.

 

I bought some felt washers now. I don't recommend anyone putting rubber for the reason explained. I'm sure the OP has had no problems otherwise he would have not recommended this. But I certainly had issues, and therefore this is a gamble. If you're willing to take that chance, then go ahead. Not me - ever again!

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Hmmmm....

I can't speak for your troubles.

If you say it happened, then there it is.

 

I've had no issues on any of my nitro guitars, some have had those washers on them for nearly ten years.

 

Is your guitar brand new, finish still actively curing?

Got any pics?

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I went ahead and purchased the EXACT rubber washers posted above from HomeDepot. Installed it on my precious SG Standard while putting on the Schaller Locks. 3 days later I took them off to see if the finish had been damaged' date=' and sure enough, it took away some wood/finish from the guitar.

 

I bought some felt washers now. I don't recommend anyone putting rubber for the reason explained. I'm sure the OP has had no problems otherwise he would have not recommended this. But I certainly had issues, and therefore this is a gamble. If you're willing to take that chance, then go ahead. Not me - ever again![/quote']

 

Did you overtighten it causing the washer to rub the finish off?

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gnolivos says;

I went ahead and purchased the EXACT rubber washers posted above from HomeDepot.

Installed it on my precious SG Standard while putting on the Schaller Locks.

3 days later I took them off to see if the finish had been damaged, and sure enough,

it took away some wood/finish from the guitar.

 

I bought some felt washers now.

I don't recommend anyone putting rubber for the reason explained.

I'm sure the OP has had no problems otherwise he would have not recommended this.

But I certainly had issues, and therefore this is a gamble.

If you're willing to take that chance, then go ahead. Not me - ever again!

 

So I just pulled the Schaller strap locks off every Gibson I own to see what I would see.

I photographed what I thought would be most compelling.

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the back of my 2002 ES-335 Dot Reissue.

I installed the Schallers on it - with those buna rubber washers - in early 2003, or seven years ago.

You can see a dark circle conforming to the exact dimensions of the washer.

That circle is almost impossible to see, and the camera shot exaggerates it - that's why I posted it.

Most of what you're seeing is simply a difference in texture from compression.

 

I took a dozen pics with various angles and lighting, and still never got the stand rash to show up.

And the stand rash is much easier to see with the naked eye....

 

4506130721_c17e26b1dc.jpg

 

 

 

 

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

 

These are on my SG 61 made in 2006. I put the same set up on this guitar as soon as I bought it.

Granted, this guitar hung on the wall at my dealer's store for several months before I took it home.

The paint was largely cured by that time, but after three years there's NO discoloration in the finish.

 

You can easily see the impression made by the tiny base of the Gibson strap button.

The larger circle is the diameter of the Schaller strap pin and the rubber washer, caused only by compression.

 

4506130737_5f3b674a37.jpg

 

4506130731_cc05c7d281.jpg

 

 

 

 

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

 

Here's my 2000 Les Paul Classic Plus, it's had the washers on it since 2001.

Getting the proper angle/lighting was a b!tch, but again you can see the outer circle for the rubber washer.

 

Interesting in this pic is where you can see the gnarly, nasty, fxcked-up paint where the original felt washer was.

When I first saw that, I figured they must have put the strap pins on while the damned paint was still wet.

It's solid, doesn't flake or peel, it just looks like ***.

But there's no darkening of the finish at all.

 

4506130735_64a422c1a0.jpg

 

4506130741_8b239c0791_s.jpg

 

 

 

 

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

 

At this point I'll add that I also checked my Custom Shop EDS-1275 double neck.

I ordered that guitar, pulled it out of the box myself when it arrived at the dealer a week after it was stamped.

The paint was still sticky as hell for a month.

 

I took this into consideration, and thought twice about putting the buna washer/Schaller strap lock on it so soon.

Decided it meant more to me to ensure the safety of the guitar, so I installed 'em as soon as I got home.

That was November of 2006, so here we are 3 1/2 years later.

I didn't bother taking any pics of it, because there isn't a damned thing to see.

No discoloration, and barely any compression marks.

 

My 2007 Les Paul Goldtop - same thing.

And it's a natural Mahogany finish.

 

My SG 12 string was made in 1995, and has had the washers on it since 2006 as well.

Not a single blemish or dark spot in the finish.

 

When I decided on those buna rubber washers, I called the manufacturer to see what they said.

Of course, those are faucet washers, they don't give a rat's *** about guitars.

They just told me they are buna rubber, which I knew is used extensively in industry for durable seals.

 

Then I called Gibson and got their stock reply;

"We cannot recommend the use of any rubber product in contact with our finishes..."

 

Upon seeing that they have an almost polished, closed-pore texture I decided to try it.

For the first couple of years I watched them closely on my LP Classic and 335.

Since they already had rubber stand damage to the finish, I wasn't gonna allow anything else to happen.

 

I researched until I found was the best way to install those strap pins.

My number one concern was to do it without drilling deeper into the guitar.

Ever see how skinny an SG is?

I was also willing to take any finish staining with a grain of salt, as long as it was under the strap pin.

 

 

 

If anybody else has something to add here, let's see it.

gnolivos, I'd love to see some pics of what you're talking about.

Hopefully we could figure out what the hell went wrong, and find a resolution, eh?

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I'm not trying to be a **** here... you had an idea, you were kind enough to share it, and I am very glad you did. After all, it may work for some, maybe most people... i don't know. For me it did not. I can see your defensive position here, I am not bothered by it. But I don't have time or energy to prove my above post by taking the Schallers out again, taking pics, posting up here etc.

 

Fact is, the rubber washer coming out of the the bottom of my SG had an equally round (albeit thin) piece of wood+finish attached to it. Perhaps I overtightened and the rubber washer twisted/rubbed against the wood and did this. In any case, I trust felt on my wood finish more than rubber. I don't really know what got into me, thinking this was a good idea to begin with.

 

Good luck to you and all who go this route. This is not life-or-death we're dealing with here. It's just a guitar. I'll live, and so will you all. :( Cheers.

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I don't really see that you're trying to be a **** here...

I don't see how I've taken a defensive position either.

I'm simply stating clearly the facts as they are, to eliminate any speculation.

 

The LAST thing I want is somebody damaging a guitar on my advice.

That's exactly why I went to such lengths to outline what I've done here, and on other things too.

Let's get this cleared up, for EVERYBODY'S benefit, eh?

 

But if you don't have the "time or energy" to "prove" anything, you know how that looks, eh?

What's the old forum saying - "Post pics or it never happened" or something to that effect?

That's on you.

Taking the Schallers out again, taking pics, and posting them up here isn't exactly painful.

Certainly not time-consuming.....

And I gotta tell ya, if you had a thin piece of wood come off the guitar, something's up!

 

 

Perhaps you did overtighten it and the rubber washer twisted/rubbed against the wood.

I don't know.

I can only speculate at this point.

 

 

I was pro-active enough to send you an email and a PM to alert you.

My intent was in no way to piss you off.

 

Trust me, if I want to piss people off, I can do it in far fewer words!

 

:-)

 

:(

 

 

 

Do reconsider.

I would like to see what you got.

If nothing else, it helps me see another problem that might crop up.

We're all better off for it, eh?

 

[cool]

 

Dave

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Hah!

Those are without the flash, using interior lighting and sunlight.

Funny how nutty digital photography is, it picks up things you can't see and won't get stuff perfectly visible.

I find that transparent red finishes are the worst. Shortest wavelengths in the light spectrum.

Sometimes flame Maple shines through like crazy, other times it looks like solid red on a Strat.

 

 

 

 

Great now there is going to be another war; and this one is your fault..............

Heh' date=' heh, heh....

G-Man, how many wars have I survived now....?

 

:-)

 

Yeah, I dunno.

Try to help, and....

 

[lol

 

gnolivos says;

"Fact is, the rubber washer coming out of the the bottom of my SG had an

equally round (albeit thin) piece of wood+finish attached to it."

 

Ya know, I wasn't gonna just come out and say it (looking like a defensive **** and all...) but I wondered if

the guitar had been dropped on the bottom strap pin at some point in the past. I've seen strap pins crush

the wood beneath them when they were driven 1/2" or more into the body from just that sort of accident.

That's part of the reason I advocate having that rubber washer in there if you recall my original post.

 

 

The washers also buy you some forgiveness if you drop the guitar on the end pin.

The rubber will absorb some shock from a moderate force without the screw snapping off.

It's tucked up safely inside the pin now, remember?

 

The repair?

 

Cut an equally round (albeit thin) piece of wood and glue it in the hole to fill it to the original height.

Put the strap pin back on, it's all covered up, and nobody will ever know the difference.....

 

[blink] [blink] [blink]#-o[blink] [blink] :-k[blink][-([blink] [blink] [angry][blink]:-s[blink] [blink]

 

 

 

How else could a piece of wood come out of the bottom of the guitar?

But hey, that's nothing more than speculation on my part because I got no pics to go on.

Pity, eh?

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So, you won't crossthread an interior portion of the guitar yet you will install an oversize rubber washer that leaves a larger compression mark for all to see when you return it to original condition :) [lol]:-&

 

My only issue with your tip is the rubber washer, I'll stick with thick felt

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So' date=' you won't crossthread an interior portion of the guitar [/quote']

Absolutely not.

 

If you did, how would you repair it?

Toothpick?

Or drill out the body and use a Mahogany dowel of the same (3/8") diameter?

 

I've had to dowel several bodies after the stupid-*** toothpick thing didn't work.

 

 

 

yet you will install an oversize rubber washer that leaves a larger compression mark

Yes' date=' the [b']exact[/b] same diameter as the strap pin - so it distributes the load over a greater area.

 

 

 

for all to see when you return it to original condition.

Can YOU see under the strap pin?

Just wondering' date=' because it's the [b']exact[/b] same diameter as the strap pin.

And with the original pin on the guitar, those very obvious compression marks are all but invisible.

If you read the post in its' entirety, you will notice where I mention how many pics I took.

That's because they didn't show up at all in 30 pics, and are hard to see with the naked eye with NO pin.

 

 

 

My only issue with your tip is the rubber washer

Hmmmm....

Nope.

Don't think so' date=' or you wouldn't have typed all the other stuff in there, eh?

 

:P

 

 

 

I'll stick with thick felt

With Schaller pins?

Got news for ya, felt will leave compression marks just as well - if not better, after it's compressed.

Schallers are larger in diameter, remember?

 

Oh, and don't read the part about the screw penetrating more deeply into the wood with the Schaller pin.

Split your Mahogany wide open.....

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NEXT?

 

 

 

:) :D

[blink] :P [blink] :) [blink] [blink] #-o[blink]:-k[blink][-([blink] [blink] :) [blink][bored][blink] [blink]

 

 

 

WTF is with these people?

 

If you got tips, post 'em.

If you got questions, post 'em.

If you have suggestions, post 'em.

 

If you wanna fling sh!t, go to the monkey display at the zoo.

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Another drive-by, eh?

 

:-)

 

Compulsive?

Need?

 

No, I make the effort to clarify and articulate the facts as best I can.

It's done voluntarily, hopefully it will save some 14 year old (or 24, 34, 44, 54, etc.) from making a mistake.

 

I think my OP was light-hearted and self-deprecating enough.

 

There's certainly no obligation to "comply" with anything there.

 

Disagreed?

Well, not exactly....

 

Maybe you could have just asked a couple questions in the spirit of discussion.

You know, dialogue?

Two-way communication?

Questions, answers, alternative strategies....?

I don't think I have to detail forum etiquette for everybody here, but I prefer articulate adult conversation.

 

You made a couple comments based on mere opinion, after opening with a smartass question/statement.

No facts, duck and run, and then no answers for any questions I posed.

That's nothing more than contributing to another forum b!tch-fest.

 

I'm MORE than willing to discuss ANYTHING in here.

 

I am NOT, however, willing to put up with a bunch of sh!t.

gnolivos comes in like a seagull, squawking and sh!tting all over everything then flies away.

Doesn't have "the time" to discuss what happened on his guitar, gets pissy and leaves pouting.

Wants to make the world believe I hypnotized him into fxcking up his guitar - in my own thread?

You decide you wanna try it too?

 

Jump in.....

 

 

Or start your own thread, on anything.

I'll be sure to stop by and piss all over it.

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I installed the Schaller strap locks on my SG using the rubber washers like NeoConMan describes. I have 2 more sets of them ready to install on my Les Paul and ES335. Before installing them, and after reading this thread, I thought I'd be sure the rubber washers aren't causing any damage to my SG. I pulled both of them off...No problem so far, but they have only been on it a few weeks.

 

I do have a Question for NCM, or anyone else that use Schallers...What is the best way, or is there a way to keep the nut for the locks on the strap from coming loose? Has anyone tried a star type lock washer, or would that not work? I've also considered a little dab of lock tite on the threads, but that might be a little over kill especially if you want to put them on a new strap.

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Yeah, that's a constant problem when you first put them on.

I have 'em on several straps.

 

Another tip I'm hesitant to share.... I stick a screwdriver inside the 'U' to hold it back against the socket.

That way you can get mean with it and really torque it down.

If you stab yourself in the hand and end your playing career, don't blame ME!

 

I never tried using pliers on the outside, I was worried it might crush the 'U' and that would suck.

 

But leather compresses over time and allows the nut to come loose.

I've thought about using a thin smear of silicone under the nut to keep it from backing off.

If you have enough room with a thin strap, maybe a thin star washer would be cool.

 

Haven't had to deal with it lately, my straps are now old enough I think they're done shrinking/moving.

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I use needle nose pliers to hold one side of the "U" along the flat, then a wrench or pliers to crank the nut down and recheck periodically. Problem does lessen over time. Never had a problem yet. Havent done any kind of damage to the straplocks aside from some swirl marks on the washer from the wrench but hey, if someone notices that around the gutiar, I must not be taking good enough care of the rest of my guitar. Honestly, even if they scratched up a little I wouldn't really care and I only tighten them really handtight without overtorquing them so there's really very little risk of crushing them as I'd be able to feel through the handtools if they started to deform.

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I think the problem may be the kind of rubber used.

 

There is no industrial standard to a material known only as "Rubber". This is a term derived from a gob of latex material derived from a South American latex tree used to 'rub' out or 'erase' pencil marks. As such, these pencil mark removing devices were colloquially known as 'rubbers'. In most regions, these are now known as erasers. The term 'rubber' eventually became to colloquially applied to other items of like resiliency, and at the time, made from latex.

 

The only thing that can be said of an item made of 'rubber' is that it is resilient and holds it's shape moderately well.

 

'Rubber' washers in two or more identical boxes may or may not be of the same material. Since plumbing fittings do not care what kind of rubber is used (brass doesn't react with latex rubber), the type of rubber is not important, and therefore need not be divulged.

 

Latex rubber most definitely reacts badly with expensive nitro finishes. Silicone rubber, numerous buna rubbers, butyl rubber and various and sundry other rubbers exist which may or may not react with guitar finishes.

 

Bottom line is, if you use locally obtained hardware, their appropriateness for the intended use is at the user's risk.

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I think the problem may be the kind of rubber used.

Bottom line is' date=' ... their appropriateness for the intended use is at the user's risk.[/quote']

Oh, fer Christ's sake, another pain in my ***!!!!

 

:-)

 

Yeah, Tommy....

I never once made any guarantees that they were the perfect remedy.

Anything I looked at from silicone - thought to be most inert - was too soft/pliable.

 

I spent weeks searching the web, and chatting with the guys at Ace Hardware, Home Depot, Lowe's...

Talked to several guitar guys in the Phoenix area who are experienced with painting, finishing and repairs.

Everybody was non-committal.

 

As I stated before, buna rubber was the choice I finally settled on for its slick texture.

There's a difference in open-cell or closed-cell structure under the microscope.

When you get into plastics and pertochemicals, that's one way they are categorized.

 

This one is formulated to act differently than that one, and so on and so forth...

 

I know for a FACT what those buna rubber washers look like after they've been in a faucet for ten years.

Water is hell on them, hot water especially so.

But they still look pretty damned good even when they no longer seal due to deformity.

Most porous rubber parts exposed to water turn to sh!t in a short time.

 

I've worked on plenty of industrial valves in the power plant/refinery world with buna seats.

I used my experience and research to make a decision, and took none of it lightly.

The finish on my guitars is at stake, and I think anybody will tell you I'm pretty finicky about my sh!t.

 

Your results may vary.

 

[biggrin][laugh]

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  • 2 weeks later...

all of this just sounds like a lot of trouble, and then worrying about possible damage to the guitar, not to mention expensive....and spending weeks talking to people all over town as to the best rubber to use, will it hurt the finish, etc.

 

All I use are the plastic disks that turn and lock onto the original screws. You don't have to remove the screws or even remove your strap. You just put the disks on over the strap and voila!...took me all of 5 seconds to do, and I picked em' up at the counter when I bought strings. They are cheap too, and I've never had a failure, not one. Now if you are going to be sling your guitar around your body in circles and ****, maybe you want something more heavy duty, but all I want is for my straps to not slide off the screw and nut.

 

Here is a pic of the locks

 

strap lock disks

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