Bluemoon Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 As reported in the New Scientist Packing heat may backfire. People who carry guns are far likelier to get shot – and killed – than those who are unarmed, a study of shooting victims in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, has found. It would be impractical – not to say unethical – to randomly assign volunteers to carry a gun or not and see what happens. So Charles Branas's team at the University of Pennsylvania analysed 677 shootings over two-and-a-half years to discover whether victims were carrying at the time, and compared them to other Philly residents of similar age, sex and ethnicity. The team also accounted for other potentially confounding differences, such as the socioeconomic status of their neighbourhood. Despite the US having the highest rate of firearms-related homicide in the industrialised world, the relationship between gun culture and violence is poorly understood. A recent study found that treating violence like an infectious disease led to a dramatic fall in shootings and killings. Overall, Branas's study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher. While it may be that the type of people who carry firearms are simply more likely to get shot, it may be that guns give a sense of empowerment that causes carriers to overreact in tense situations, or encourages them to visit neighbourhoods they probably shouldn't, Branas speculates. Supporters of the Second Amendment shouldn't worry that the right to bear arms is under threat, however. "We don't have an answer as to whether guns are protective or perilous," Branas says. "This study is a beginning." Daniel Webster, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore, Maryland, thinks it is near-sighted to consider only the safety of gun owners and not their communities. "It affects others a heck of a lot more," he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Analysis: If they had thrown out incidents where the 'victims' and perpetrators who were both a member of street a gang, then you might have a statistic that reflects what the law abiding, protected citizen rate is. It would be logical to throw out these numbers as the sub-culture of street gangs are at war with each other and by definition, most if not all are carrying because they shoot at each other.. it's what they do. As a matter of fact, in the absense of a fire arm, some of these 'thugs' carried out their fatal activity just last week at a highschool in Chicargo, armed with nothing but Nike's and a few sticks of lumber. I believe this 'study' skews the numbers towards bad guys 'vicitimizin' bad guys, in which case the 'vicitim' is really hard to determine. I would venture to say that a thug who draws on a vicitim ,whom he belives, in all probability, is not armed, would get the worst of it if the would be vicitim were packin'. I agree with one thing this article says in that they should treat the violence like a disease. Guns, rocks, knives, lumber, Nike shoes cannot, by definition be diseased. It is people that are diseased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Guns don't kill, people kill. The guns just a tool, like a bat, knife, hammer, machete, rock, etc. etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Analysis: If they had thrown out incidents where the 'victims' and perpetrators who were both a member of street a gang' date=' then you might have a statistic that reflects what the law abiding, protected citizen rate is. [/quote'] +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 That's a pretty mild assessment with much left unsaid. Philly has a huge inner-city crime problem due to drugs, poverty and such. Lawful possession of firearms is much less common there that states out west for a variety of reasons. So whos' carrying the guns? Criminals. Where do they hang out with their guns? Inner city. What are they doind when they are carrying guns? Usually no good. The parallels to the cities of Chicago, San Francisco and D.C. are irrefutable. Look up the Heller case that was heard by the US Supreme Court recently and peruse some facts there. Contrast all that with law-abiding citizens who lawfully own guns, and the few that actually carry them regularly. They don't want trouble and will do their best to steer away from it. I've carried a gun all my adult life and have never pointed one at anybody or even displayed it. My first weapon is my brain - which allows me to use my feet or my vehicle and avoid gunplay. The interesting stats are when you look at the 40 states that allow Concealed Carry weapons permits. The percentage of CCW holders commiting gun crimes varies from less than 1% to incalculable due to no offenses recorded. These people number into the hundreds of thousands in the USA, and the 'crime' just isn't there. Of course, what do I know? I'm just a fedarally licensed gun dealer. =D>/ And what are your feelings on the matter Blue? If I recall you're a Brit relocated to Chicago, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'm still packin. It saved my life once. The other guy. not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemoon Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 My view? To each his own. I used to own a gun. Don't have any problem with people owning guns. As for carrying them around. Well, I am not so sure about that. I believe that most gun owners are fairly responsible. It is the small percentage who aren't that I worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I wouldn't have even had the time to pull a pistol when I was stabbed it happened so fast. But that don't stop me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I want a gun... I havent bought one 'cause I know I would just go out and start shooting everyone in sight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSG_Standard Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Charles Branas, the idiot that carried out the study must be one of the stupidest, most intellectually dishonest people on earth. That's all I have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 My view? To each his own. I used to own a gun. Don't have any problem with people owning guns. As for carrying them around. Well' date=' I am not so sure about that. I believe that most gun owners are fairly responsible. It is the small percentage who aren't that I worry about.[/quote']it's that small few that make me want to carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 That's a pretty mild assessment with much left unsaid. I'm a man of few words. I like to shuck down to the cob as quickly as possible and move on to the next. Philly has a huge inner-city crime problem due to drugs' date=' poverty and such.Lawful possession of firearms is much less common there that states out west for a variety of reasons. ... [/quote'] Makes you wonder how the adjusted the numbers to " ... team also accounted for other potentially confounding differences, such as the socioeconomic status of their neighbourhood." If you toss out the hoodlums. What have you left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS44 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 People have a right to carry a gun... I don't plan on getting one but thats just me.... It is a perfectly reasonable law... I think that many gun users get a bad rap because of what the "less intelligent" of the group do.... Carrying guns may increase the danger of getting shot (coughs muffling plaxico burress) but the guns themselves don't fire themselves.... Maybe people are more likley to fire because they feel more thratened because the other person has a gun too.... I dunno It's their right let them have (registered) guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemoon Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 Charles Branas' date=' the idiot that carried out the study must be one of the stupidest, most intellectually dishonest people on earth. That's all I have to say about that.[/quote'] Do you know him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Problem is kids cant take a beating anymore so they carry guns. I could get beat up in a fight and still not pull my gun. As long as I don't fear for my life. I can handle a good a$$ woopin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruznolfart Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 "...Branas speculates." 'nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS44 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Problem is kids cant take a beating anymore so they carry guns. I could get beat up in a fight and still not pull my gun. As long as I don't fear for my life. I can handle a good a$$ woopin' Great point... some kids just don't know how to take a punch or 20... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 People have a right to carry a gun...It's their right let them have (registered) guns Nice sentiment, but 'registration' of guns leads to confiscation. Always has, always will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXE® Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Ok, on a more serious note... Those studies are a joke, you can link people dying to anything if you want. They did that with heavy metal for 20 years, and when the jonas brothers came in people still went to college to kill their friends, and people still robbed stores, and people still commited suicide. You know what kills? (and I know I'm gonna get it for this:-") BOWLING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemoon Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 it's that small few that make me want to carry. I don't mean criminals. I just mean law-abiding citizens who don't know how to shoot or maintain their weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I don't mean criminals. I just mean law-abiding citizens who don't know how to shoot or maintain their weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Great point... some kids just don't know how to take a punch or 20... Or a 2x4 to the head, groin, and kidneys. Darn tootin' they fear for their lives.... in some parts of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Problem is kids cant take a beating anymore so they carry guns. I could get beat up in a fight and still not pull my gun. As long as I don't fear for my life. I can handle a good a$$ woopin' You are right there... people no longer play by the rules (if there were ever any rules), you get into a fight and the next thing you know is the other guy has shot you in the head and it doesnt matter if you were wininng or he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemoon Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 Ok' date=' on a more serious note... Those studies are a joke, you can link people dying to anything if you want. They did that with heavy metal for 20 years, and when the jonas brothers came in people still went to college to kill their friends, and people still robbed stores, and people still commited suicide. You know what kills? (and I know I'm gonna get it for this:-") BOWLING.[/quote'] Blasphemy. BAN HIM, BAN HIM, BAN HIM. Bowling balls don't kill, fat bowlers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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