Laney1566 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I agree with the above statement Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Federal Firearms License.....? Think about it a little.... In summation of your contribution to the thread so far; Why bother? :D And the pickguards are gone from every LP I ever owned. :D/ Jeez' date=' just fxcking click elsewhere....[/b'] Uh - nope. Allow me to restate (in simple terms) some of my contributions to this thread: IMHO, having secured an FFL does not necessarily make one qualified to render an opinion as to what "starter" weapon an internet forum poster should or should not be looking at. There are many factors to be considered, and so far, the recommendations offered resemble the kind of jabber that goes along with the subjective opinions rendered a la: "which pickguard is the best?" For all we know, the OP might be as well-off defending his family with a sharp stick, the kung-fu finger-of-death, or a 16-ton weight as he might with a shotgun or a .357 Magnum. In my opinion, this is not the place to try and figure out that kind of question, and I've said so. Perhaps I should have gone the extra mile and suggested that a bit of hands-on experience might help in the decision-making process. If you want a firearm, go try them out and see what fits. Kind of like choosing a guitar. Myself, I kind of like a Browning .25 - but then I've been around the "defense" thing for a while. I wouldn't recommend it to others, and I expect that still others will disagree with me, but that's what this kind of communication is all about. And finally, I'm not a fan of the "size two" font. If you want to call me out, stand up and be counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mick Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I use a 12 gauge that you could call a hand gun. It's in the top drawer of my night stand at arms reach from the bed. Very effective.......cheaper than a comperable pistol :D/ sounds illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Okay, we're talking about general home defense in circumstances where a longtime member of this forum wishes to have an edge. It's the same sort of concern as what's a good, safe outfit to carry band equipment for a trio in bad weather in the midwest. It's a personal safety issue for a fellow guitar player. I noted that "tactics" are important. I would bow to Neo's knowledge of current firearm offerings in the marketplace, but I have some degree of background on the tactical side. We're also not talking about home defense in the U.S., Canada or the UK. A sidearm is a practical overall defense arm. So is a 4" folding knife. Or whatever kung fu stuff you want to talk about, although some is horridly impractical. My swords are not in the bedroom, for example. The bottom line is that a handgun, especially a revolver, that can digest a number of types of ammunition, is a good "edge" for general home defense. There are other options depending on perceived tactical circumstances. It's tactical circumstances that to me determine how, and with what implements, I might take "X" action. In fact, I've played some saloons where I was very, very, very aware of tactical circumstances, especially on some evenings when the place just didn't feel right. One may not need a firearm, perhaps one should not even consider one, but one might consider moving things around on a stage to protect property and potentially one's own safety. That's not just sleazy places, that can be "nice" places too. A musician has a number of safety concerns, whether honkeytonk country or a chamber orchestra or string quartet. Traveling where it's 50-75 miles or more between gas stations should bring considerations of what to do with a vehicle breakdown, safety in winter and - in my time I've had two feral dog pack attacks that made me happy I had a firearm. People doing that sorta travel who ignore such general safety considerations are a lot more stupid than those who forget extra flatpicks or strings to a gig. I don't have batches of "defense implements" in my bedroom. But one should note that "tactical" solutions for home defense are also what could keep you from getting fried in a fire, and more protected from various weather disasters. Since musicians are out and about more, I think we should think more of personal security. If we don't, we should. It ain't just "bad guys." It's good tires and a good winter "kit." Ever help move a 200-pound guy that froze solid at -20 F 'cuz he wasn't prepared? m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrosion of conformity Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 We don't need guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Speak for yourself COC. Careful with the 'we' stuff. Allow me to restate (in simple terms) some of my contributions to this thread: Doesn't get any more simple than your own words. Try a little more pleasant approach and I won't look forward so much to your departure. Attitude permeates - see below.... IMHO' date=' having secured an FFL does not necessarily make one qualified [/quote']Your honest/humble opinion is based on what exactly? What do you know about my gun knowledge/experience/preference/business to form such a prickly presumption? Do speak of my qualifications - please. Disagree with me all you want - fine. If it means so much to disprove me in some way - proceed. It means I learn something too. If copping an attitude and pissing all over a thread with questions' date=' answers, opinions and humor spread liberally is your primary motivation, then you can accept all credit due for the thread being locked down. the recommendations offered Variety. I, for one, welcome it. Far be it from me to presume to know all. The man is in South America, in a very different culture with very different laws. He's asking the world. I have no problem with that. resemble the kind of jabber that goes along with the subjective opinions rendered a la: "which pickguard is the best?" And why' date=' pray tell, would an internet forum exist - but to ponder such things? I'm afraid I'm missing the nature of the problem here. For all we know' date=' the OP might be as well-off defending his family with a sharp stick, the kung-fu finger-of-death, or a 16-ton weight as he might with a shotgun or a .357 Magnum.[/quote']Yep. In my opinion' date=' this is not the place to try and figure out that kind of question, and I've said so.[/quote']So noted. Please instruct all involved where they should go (away from your derision and disfavor) to figure it out. Perhaps I should have gone the extra mile and suggested that a bit of hands-on experience might help in the decision-making process. If you want a firearm' date=' go try them out and see what fits. Kind of like choosing a guitar.[/quote'] I'm sorry... Was that advice nowhere to be found so far? Is it really your profound wisdom that first introduced such a concept to the light of day? I mean, golly, that's a right smart suggestion after all. Myself' date=' I kind of like a Browning .25 - but then I've been around the "defense" thing for a while.[/quote']Which adds another twist to the irony.... See below; I wouldn't recommend it to others' date=' and I expect that still others will disagree with me, but that's what this kind of communication is all about.[/quote']WHAT THE HELL WERE WE ALL DOING FOR 4 PAGES? Glad you could get here in time to steer it all back on course. :D As somebody with some experience with various .25 caliber pistols, I can tell you that the pride ends with the name on that diminutive choice. Browning made some excellent weapons and I'm sure yours is one of them. Keep the caliber... And finally' date=' I'm not a fan of the "size two" font. If you want to call me out, stand up and be counted.[/quote'] NUMBER ONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 "We don't need guns." Nope... but there's also no need for a given individual to live, either. No need for medical technology beyond that available to the Lakota or Celtic tribes. Mankind survived rather well without antibiotics, Xrays and government funded health care. Mankind would survive rather well were we to lose probably 90 percent of the population. But I don't think we really want that latter. Most of us are personally likely to be among the 90 percent. You're talking species survival. Individual survival is a rather different matter. In fact, one might question the longevity of cultures that did not train their youth in at least a recognition of importance of combat skills and implements as well as educating them other sorts of survival skills for their time and place. "Tools" for survival are only that - but... the mind is one of those tools. So is education. One might note we did well as a species without literacy, but if genetic lines without defense tools and attitudes survived into our DNA, we have no evidence of it. I find it interesting also that musical instruments, especially the guitar, have developed rather interestingly in parallel with firearms... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillybilly Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 We don't need guns. we also dont need gibson guitars,cars, the internet and a bunch of other crap. sell all your stuff and become a hermit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 If there wasn't a need for them there wouldn't be any gun's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 If there wasn't a need for them there wouldn't be any gun's. You sayin' there's a need for the jonas brothers, paris hilton AND chinese fakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 This thread really shows what badasses some of you guys are. I don't mean to brag... but my accuracy with a pistol is lethal. I'm pretty good with rifles too. I just prefer pistols. Cough cough... I bet it's pretty gnarly to shoot somebody but if they were breaking into my house... I can tell you for sure they'll be shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortcon Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Neo... you never cease to amaze me. Not trying to brown nose, but I mean... damn. That was an excellent smack down, I'm a huge fan of general bastardry, and you sir, are a master. Keep at it! And I further agree, that Les Pauls don't need pickguards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flight959 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I must say, i have had what was at that time in my life a real pleasure of catching someone screwing my home. Why was it a pleasure? well my dad had died a few months earlier and at the time things wernt going right. I came home in the evening to find that a window round the back was open. I got out my car walked over to the window to look into my bedroom and there he was half under the bed looking for stuff to nick. Did I say anything to him...Nope, did he see me... Nope, did I take his screwdriver off the window ledge.....Yep, did I wait for him to come out... Yep, was he shown the errors of his ways.... Yep! Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Thanks everyone for something I know nothing about; guns. The only guns I have fired are water pistols and the ones at fairgrounds I know you mostly belong to a very different culture and the gun is a way of life to many. If I am honest it makes me smile reading much of this as it is just so alien to me. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way either, although if I m honest I am pleased I don't need to think about all this. Although if everyone started carrying a gun in the uk I would have to... it would be like the analogy I wrote to a friend recently of a rock concert; where people stand on tip toes if the person in fronnt does or you are at a disadvantage. Before you know it the entire audience is on tip toes and can all see the same as if they all agreed to not stand on tip toes. Maybe the same is with guns too. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMF Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Living in England I can't add anything other than blimey you have upstair guns, downs stair guns and take outs that's great. Do you have to store in designates place. My mate is a farmer and has a couple of shotguns and the ploice visit to ensure they are locked any in steel box etc. ps don't know what Sid is pointing, no doubt a handbag verison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 sounds illegal Sounds like a metal 12-ga. flare gun loaded with a shotgun round. The ultimate sawed-off... don't try this at home' date=' kids. All things considered a house with 2 shepherds and a mix breed chow/shepherd is also a pretty good way to say stay away unless invited. I've heard a couple guys swear by the ol' "shotgun & a poodle" arrangement. Poodles are one of the barkingest dog breeds when it comes to intruders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Actually you guys in the UK are living in the home of the culture that gave the rest of us Anglophones the right to bear arms - at least in the US. The "English tradition" in common law has held that one has an inherent right to protect himself and his home. Until circa 1920 during the general strikes in England, firearms laws there were far more "liberal" than in the US today. Then the clamps started coming down to keep the underclass in its place. Especially an underclass with military experience. Nowadays, of course, it's the modern version of the Roman empire's "Bread and Circuses." But... it's not just "self defense" that we're talking about here. It's personal security. Musicians traveling in North America have a lot of concerns one may or may not have in the UK, not the least of which is weather. Planning can save equipment and a lot of personal pain when one is on the road. I seldom hear of it, though, except from a very few pros. This is one I harp on constantly. I'm serious in that the first DB I ever handled was a guy frozen solid largely because he didn't have a winter weather kit in bad weather. And that was inside city limits. I know a lawyer who lost some fingers and toes for the same reason after his big expensive luxury car went off the road inside city limits, and was buried a while under snow thanks to a Northern Plains blizzard. In other parts of the world there likely are other personal security concerns. Floods, fires, earthquakes... It's all part of considerations one must constantly update. A friend in South America was in a rural car wreck. Would a good first aid kit have helped? Perhaps. He now lives in a US urban area where he's more likely to need a firearm, but he doesn't have concerns any more about car wrecks dozens of miles from any sort of help. So... to me a firearm is only a small piece of the puzzle regardless where one lives and/or travels in terms of personal security. Our guitars are very important to our lives or we wouldn't be here. What are we doing to protect them, not just against thieves, but other potentially damaging factors? Do we think of 100-degree (F) temperature changes and the effect on our equipment when planning a winter gig? We'd better. Humidity changes in elevation changes? Safe travel vehicles? Brundaddy hit the nail on the head, btw, if he's right on his guess about a flare gun loaded with a shotgun round. I don't think my wrists would take it. I'd never shoot one myself. I just got an email from a friend in a southern California SO noting a number of personal security suggestions for women that have nothing to do with any "weapon" except one's vehicle. Personal safety, vis a vis bad guys or earthquakes, is just like good guitar playing. It all begins in the mind. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laney1566 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Enjoying your posts milod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brundaddy Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Shooting shotgun shells through a flare gun is very risky, is a real handful to shoot, and utterly shreds any target within 10 feet. It actually might not drop a bad guy across the room though. BTW, what's in your 'winter kit' milod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 guns and marriage don't mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Depends on who you marry. At least with Mrs. Neo I know the death would be quick - she's a good shot for a schoolteacher/churchlady.... ](*,)/ I've heard a couple guys swear by the ol' "shotgun & a poodle" arrangement. Indeed! The firearm is but one tool. Anybody trying to get thru life with no more that a screw driver and vise-grip pliers is at a disadvantage. (tip of the hat to 959 on the screwdriver thing though....) My place is secure by the very nature of its construction' date=' the location I chose for it, etc. The security is comprehensive indeed, so after the first hurdle of gaining unpermitted access..... Cameras are so cheap nowadays, it's dumb not to have um, .... more than one.... All my vehicles are [i']always[/i] inside the garage. They are always locked. If I hear a noise I can easily assume it's somebody where they shouldn't be - just the wife and me live there. Always keep a couple loud, stupid dogs inside the fence who aren't terribly well trained - not conventionally. (I personally have seen strangers tell dogs to "Go lay down" or "Be quiet" and they complied.....) My neighbors would do anything for me, because they know I'll go the extra mile for them and their property. I'm not paranoid. I don't spend all my time cleaning and caressing weapons and looking to the horizon for bad guys. I did the work up front to secure my family and property, and day to day I remain vigilant. It's that easy. And Milod has yet to post a bad one.... Praise be to you Kind Sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillybilly Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 guns and marriage don't mix. i beg to differ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillybilly Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I don't spend all my time cleaning and caressing weapons and looking to the horizon for bad guys. i guess i'm just paranoid. :D just kidding, i only clean my guns after i use them (aside from the occasional drops of CLP on my 1911s; those run best a little wet) as for caressing, is it my fault they like to be held? :D/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Touche' :D/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 NUMBER ONE Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I can tell that you put a lot into it. It wasn't my intent to rile - I guess sometimes the text/forum/internet thing can mask the communication intended. (Myself, I would have tossed in some "harrumphs", but that's just me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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