DAS44 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I have two teenage daughters so I have 19 years experience screaming at the top of my lungs. buahahahaha! Well with that kind of experience you could scare Tigers away..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Garands are commanding rude money anyway. Indeed. That's the only reason I don't own one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myspace.com/jessenoah Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmAEauh5clY[/YOUTUBE] bears and dinosaurs cant stand the screech of a guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Living int he mountains my whole life, I've had more than one experience with Bears. Once we were hiking up San Gorgonio when our camp site was invaded by a Bear and her Cub. it was the first camp and still close to civilization. They were after trash, but the Mamma Bear found one of our Parties Back Packs way more interesting. The night before we all hung our food in trees so I couldn't figure it out at first. The guy who's pack was being eaten was a "No Guns" hippy type until he had a bear on his sleeping bag. He cried out "Where's that gun?" My brother, who had the .357, said, "In my hand waiting for the Bear to do something more than eat your back pack." So there was this poor dummy yelling and waving his arm while this bear ignored him completely, ripping away at the light weight aluminum frame of his little city pack. Eventually the bear got what he was after and left his mangled pack to check on her cub, that was sifting throught the trash bin (we're talking municipal camp ground at he bottom of the trail). Anyway, that city clown that had his pack eaten was carrying his Dog Food in his Back Pack. He thought we only had to hang people food in the trees!!! And that Dumb Arse wanted us to shoot that beautiful Brown Bear for his dog food. Some pacifist he turned out to be. BTW, when they say Black Bears aren't aggressive and are afraid of humans, that is a reltive statement. Compared to Grizzlies and Kodiak's they're not aggressive. But when you see one they might not know about their more aggressive relatives, and just might act like a Bear. Bears can be disinterested in a human, not afraid. Even a Brown or Black Bear may be Cranky, Hungry, or just plain MEAN!!! Best thing to do when you see a bear; Let It Be, Stand Ready with an Appropriate Weapon (lets just say that .357 felt like a .25 auto when your looking at 400lbs of Bear), and bury some Mountain Lion Crap in your yard around the Trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Listen to FirstMeasure, He knowed. Bears don't fear man, they just tolerate us ... to a point. I had the pleasure of reading Lewis and Clark's diaries of their three year expedition up the Missouri River to what is now the state of Oregon and back. The only thing they encountered which was worth fearing was what they called 'white' bears. Coming from the east where the black bears roam, the light brown fur of a grizzly, bleached by the sun looks almost white. Indians they respected, but always made sure they had an out and weren't surrounded. They never wrote a word about mountain lions. But grizzlies? They did not mess with them. Once, after they'd made it to the Grand Falls of Montana,... it was either Lewis or Clark was minding his own business being impressed and enthralled with all that God had made when he heard a sound behind him. Less than 100 feet from him was a Grizzly, mouth agape and on his hind feet. The explorer was for all intents and purposes alone, and un-armed. He just stood there for what seemed an eternity. Then for no apparent reason the the bear went down on all four and sauntered away. Let's just say it confirmed his belief in a higher power. Their diaries were littered with accounts of Grizzly bears. I fact, to kill one, was reason for celebration. The expedition did not, could not, take everything they needed with them the day they left the Mississippi River. Some things they traded for, most, they found or fabricated along the way. A grizzly bear was a week's worth of meat, a good hide for numerous uses and bear grease good for cooking with, lubricating equipment, and for medicinal purposes. One thing that they learned, almost the hard way was that if you killed a grizzly, you absolutely positively HAD to be sitting on a horse. Anything short of a close range, between the eyes shot would not drop a bear. A lung and heart shot meant 'giddyap' They penned that a wounded bear could run as far as a mile before dropping. Worse yet, if you gut shot him. And, just to be sure, you did not approach the bear immediately after he fell as he usually had 2 more swings of his big furry paw left in him. I like the Ammonia in a soda bottle tactic. Cheap and effective. But definitely, don't even load up the .22, you'll just anger the bear. And we all know, you don't anger a bear because he finds you crunchy and sort of tasty with a coating of stale mayonnaise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I watched a movie last winter called "Earth" released in 2007. It was really fascinating with excellent photography. It did, at one point get a little weepy that the polar bears were losing their habitat. Then, proved that it was not a big deal. Consider this. Polar bears love to forage for live food, using frozen ice as a platform to wait for an unsuspecting seal or walrus to happen by. The Polar bear they followed, got himself stuck on a chunk of ice that was floating out to sea. He, eventually, figoured out his predicament and swam, quite a long ways I might add to shore to forage amongst the fauna on firm ground. Now, there are few animals that can compete with a polar bear above the arboreal forests. So, the animal used to feeding at the edge of dry land are forced to move farther inland. They, in turn, force other carnivores farther away from the Arctic ocean in a necessarily southern direction. This forced migration continues until a border jumping black bear wanders out of Canada and ends up rummaging through garbage cans in Caribou, ME. This is nothing new. This has been going on for a millenium, several millenia as the northern ice pack shrinks and grows of it's own volition. This story is being repeated coast to coast with lions and bears venturing into 'human' territory. Heck, the law envorcement and IDOC of Illinois was in complete denial about mountain lions prowling my home state until they were faced with prima facea evidence they could not ignore. 1. An elderly male's body found near the Mississippi river, south of the Rock who had expired by natural causes. Another was put down roaming in a north Chicago suburb just a year ago. For years, they'd denied the authenticity of a photograph taken by a wild life camera of a very large puma stalking a couple white tail deer. Now they believe this might not have been a hoax after all. Be aware of your surroundings folks. Keep a watchful eye on your kids. We ARE where the Wild Things Are. Especially, especially if you live on high ground or amongst good wildlife cover (forests). There is nothing to fear... as long as they continue to tolerate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Wow, what a story. I'll tell you what NOT to shoot in the garage...a skunk!! My cousin did it when I was in CA visiting him. It ain't pretty at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPhillips Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 If you've got bear problems in a residential neighborhood, especially a garbage bear, the answer is to not store your garbage outside until just before pick up. Not the night before or a day before, but as close as possible to pick up. We deal with this all the time. The solution isn't to kill or try to scare the bears away. Bears are motivated by 3 things. Food, sex and sleep. Sounds like the bears mentioned here are motivated by food, or the promise of food the scent from garbage promises them. I've lived and worked along salmon streams, here in Alaska, for years. I've also learned the hard way about bears attracted to foods (whether it was garbage, gardens, meat, dog food, etc...). Take away their interest (in this case, garbage), they'll disappear. Allow them to learn your area is where easy pickings are found, and you'll eternally have problems... Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikko18 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Light. saber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Wow I'm a bear. My wife's Arkansan uncle had a bear get on his back deck one afternoon. He was attracted by the 10 or so gallons of vegetable cooking oil that was cooling on the back deck. They'd just that morning cooked a turkey or something. I'm sure it smelled awful tasty. Notice he said it was cooling. The bear was up to his eyeballs before his brain registered, !#*&(@#^(@#*&^ H-O-T!!!!!! It took some doing for him to extract his/her head from the hot cooking pot. He slammed into the side of the house a couple times and knocked the kitchen cabinet doors open. Once extracted from his h.e.double toothpicks situation, he scattered to the woods and was never seen again. Although it was quite brazen of him to come out in broad day light. Although, as mentioned before, bears don't fear humans, they just tolerate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Place motion sensor near trash can, place cheap speakers above trash can, play this as loud as possible thru said speakers; [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH3cZb8XZek&feature=related[/YOUTUBE] No more bear problem, of course you may have some other problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwness Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Place motion sensor near trash can' date=' place cheap speakers above trash can, play this as loud as possible thru said speakers;[YOUTUBE']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH3cZb8XZek&feature=related[/YOUTUBE] No more bear problem, of course you may have some other problems My ears My ears I'm deaf I can't hear any more after that. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Any wild animal can be dangerous. Lewis and Clark were using .54 caliber rifles shooting a lead ball over half an inch in diameter. Such rifles can be rather effective properly placed on a black bear - and not terribly effective on grizzly. I also question the sprays. Again, much depends on the individual animal and circumstances, but we had a "sick" cat hanging around the house for a while with behavior that was obviously not good. I used the grizzly pepper spray purchased from a real gun/griz spray shop whose proprietors I knew relatively well at the time. Damned near no effect on the cat - so I don't really care much for the idea of using it on griz. On the other hand, I don't care much for the idea of using anything other than having Scottie beam me up were a griz to be personally unhappy at me. Some folks claim a .338 mag is minimum for griz. Lots of blackies have been taken with smaller caliber smokepoles back in Daniel Boone's era and .30-30s in the past century. But again, if one's mad at you, there's another game to play. One's accuracy will likely suffer regardless of one's familiarity with any given arm in any given caliber if one sees a large set of teeth headed one's way up close and personal. BTW, I tend to be with Neo on the AK semi-auto stuff. One might also note that an arm well-designed for military purposes may not be the best at all in other circumstances. Most recommendations for truly dangerous game do not tend to include anything semiautomatic. A lot of old timers preferred the double rifle to anything else, simply for that reliability factor. Lewis and Clark had the finest available "storebought" arms for their time and the needs of the journey. Not fancy, just darned reliable. That .54 cal. ball could take any other critter in North America - everything they were really aware of when they headed west. The griz simply is in a different class - excepting the polar bear. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Consider this: The .357 is often considered the minimum caliber required to stop a 200# man in his tracks. A .40 caliber should throw him back a bit. Caliber measurement is a direct decimal in ch measurement, so a .357 pistol / rifle is thowing a 0.357" diameter projectile. An AK47 throws a 7.62mm diameter projectile. That converts to 0.300" The American counterpart to this, the M-16, throws a 5.56mm projcetile (.219 caliber), yes my friends a .22. If .357 is the minimum to stop a 200 pound adversary, you think a .22 or a .3006 is going to more than just tick off a 1000 pound bear? Best to either use some serious fire power or stay hid in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Yeah, the 7.62 isn't a very 'hot' round - it's similar to the 30-30 carbine in energy. Certainly not a high powered round like traditional rifles use. It's not just bore size. Rifle ammunition (say 30-06) has a whole lot more powder behind it than the .357. The effect is not linear either. Driving a 125 grain .357 slug to 1,300 fps is quite a feat - lotsa recoil felt by the shooter. Driving a heavier 150 grain 30-06 slug 3,000 fps requires a massive case full of powder. And the energy 'absorbed' by the target at the other end is at least four times greater. I have seen a story about a killer Grizzly that was finally tracked and killed, and when they were checking him for previous wounds (he was reportedly shot to fend off earlier attacks) they discovered a big scar between his eyes that ran like a trench up his skull. Seems that was the 'flesh wound' he had suffered from being shot in the head with a 7mm Magnum earlier. Bounced off his head from very close range.... A couple buddies of mine spend alot of time in Alaska and they also have a sidearm at all times in addition to the rifle, the minimum caliber they will consider is a .44 Mag and several folks they know carry the S&W 500. They're only half joking when they say they save the last round for themselves to avoid being eaten alive. Some places man is still not the Alpha or apex predator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Some say that when The Lord created things, that were improvements on what he created before. After he created man, he created the grizzly bear. And The Lord spake, "That ought to keep them humble." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Neo et al... Actually some .357 revolver rounds can pack a bit of power, especially handloads (legitimate and "safe" in a good arm) from a carbine or long-barrel revolver. They just don't have the ballistic coefficient to do that well at any sort of distance. I could tell a tale about some 158 grain handloads but... Still not Griz rounds. The .30-30 has killed a lot of blackies, as have the necked-up versions to .35 caliber in similar lever guns. (Save the old barrels by rechambering.) The .35 Whelan - essentially a necked-up .30-06 round - has been pretty popular among some folks as putting out a lotta whumph in a standard bolt action, at least. Should do a griz properly placed. Pretty decent on elk or moose. But the real problem isn't so much the arm as the bullet and bullet placement. A big "elephant gun" that simply takes a piece out of a blackie might make the critter awfully unhappy where a well-placed .30-30 might drop even a big blackie in his tracks. That goes in quadruplicate for a griz. There's been a lotta discussion of the bored-out to .35 version of the .30-30 in lever guns and whether they're better on deer and black bear. I'm not convinced either way. Marlin's .444 or a modern-loaded .45-70 can do a number on most critters. Shot placement and bullet selection still is gonna be the determining factor. Big bullets, proper bullet selection in any caliber, arguments of kinetic energy with smaller bullets... it's a lotta fun for firearms enthusiasts, but the bottom line is: Anybody who wants to dance cheek to cheek with a griz - even an unhappy blackie - is nuts. No firearm is a guarantee of winning the encounter, let alone surviving it. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc3c46 Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 44 Mag with 300gr JHP in a Winchester with 9 rounds available and good shot placement does the trick. They drop like they swallowed a handgrende! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Guaranteed? #-o/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwness Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Gentlemen I hope you don't think I was going or ever will go after a grizzly with my AK. Only as a last resort would that happen. I agree big game no auto is rule number 1. I have a WSM 300 Savage 110 bolt for the bigger stuff. I like the FMJ rounds in the AK the pest I had to dispatch went right down. Well it's time to take the dogs out and shoot a few Pheasants. I should have said one well place shot. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwness Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 The story must continue. I just got a new puppy after having to put one of my beloved friends down due to kidney disease. Get in the field and Apache ( German Shorthair) goes into point and I send in my Yellow (Meg) to flush the bird when I send her into the deep grass I see Shawnee right behind (10 weeks old) and who do you think flushed the bird. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Awwww.... Well... RE the Griz game... <grin> 'Twas in the north central part of what's now South Dakota, USA, when a fellah name of Hugh Glass got mauled by a griz. Anybody remember the story? Anyway, He wasn't so pretty afterward. A veterinarian friend claims he'd never make his "crawl" to what's now the area of the state capitol, Pierre, 'cuz of a lot more nasty little germs nowadays. Hmmmm. Anyway, the griz isn't something to mess with. I'm reminded too of the old statement that there once was a carving: "D Boone kilt a bar on this tree." <grin> m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 BTW, on the "frontier" and "firearm" thing... My current avatar is a flag-raising ceremony at Ft. Phil Kearny on the eastern slope of the Big Horns and along what once was the Bozeman Trail. If you've ever heard of the Fetterman "massacre," it was just over the hills behind the re-enacting soldiers in 1867. I have no idea who the officer of the day might be. At the time, the infantry was using .58 cal. rifled muskets as used in the earlier 1860s unpleasantness farther to the east in North America south of Canada. It had plenty of power with the minie ball if a cupla guys met a griz, but... it wasn't very quick to reload with cold fingers when outnumbered by folks with more rapid firing weaponry. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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