Nut Problem?

[gconley]

hey guys, im brand new here and happy to be a part of this forum.

 

my question is regarding the nut on my cherry red american made les paul special with the dot inlays. i know the g string saying out of tune is a common problem, so ive heard. i am going to buy the nut filing kit since i keep hearing that the g string slot probably needs to be filed down a little more.

 

what do you guys think? any tips on filing nuts. i have never done it but want to do it myself.

 

thanks guys,

gary

[Tim Plains]

Glad I don't have any problem with my nuts...

I think you're a brave man for wanting to buy a filing kit.

Most people with poorly cut nuts either get a tech to do file the grooves or just use a lubricant every few months.

[blueslespaultone]

Glad I don't have any problem with my nuts...

I think you're a brave man for wanting to buy a filing kit.

Most people with poorly cut nuts either get a tech to do file the grooves or just use a lubricant every few months.

 

lmao,

 

i agree with r9, but if your guitar is staying, or comes out of tune fast, check the bridge.

mainly the adjustable saddles.

i had a problem w, my epi dot 335, the g string would come out of tune quick. my solution, im not saying you should do this. is i unscrewed the saddle from the intonation screw, reversed it the other way, and for some reason, viola, stayed in tune. ofcourse i reintonated it.

just check to see if it feels flimsy or slightly loose. you might even be experiencing intonation issues aswell as i did.

on the nut issue, get yourself graphite from a pencil and apply it to your nut:-s lol

[gconley]

Glad I don't have any problem with my nuts...

I think you're a brave man for wanting to buy a filing kit.

Most people with poorly cut nuts either get a tech to do file the grooves or just use a lubricant every few months.

 

i just priced the filing kit on stew macs website its about 140 for about 12 different files. i dont even know what size i need yet but i guess i can just find out the sizes i need at the moment and just buy those instead of droping 140 lol.

 

i want to do it myself cause i want to dig right into repairs so im trying my best not to get scarred lol. its easier to talk myself out of it and pay somebody to do it but im cheap, mainly i want to learn though.

[Big Bill]

i just priced the filing kit on stew macs website its about 140 for about 12 different files. i dont even know what size i need yet but i guess i can just find out the sizes i need at the moment and just buy those instead of droping 140 lol.

 

i want to do it myself cause i want to dig right into repairs so im trying my best not to get scarred lol. its easier to talk myself out of it and pay somebody to do it but im cheap' date=' mainly i want to learn though.

 

[/quote']

 

 

I shouldn't cost more than $50 to have a tech setup the guitar for you. The filing of the nut is included in a setup.

[Tim Plains]

Yeah, I checked them out after I read your first post. $140 is a bit much. You can get a set of (I think) 5 files for $40 but what if they're not the sizes youneed, then what? I thought about getting a set, myself but by the time the package arrives to my door, I'm probably up to $200, Canadian.

[gconley]

Yeah' date=' I checked them out after I read your first post. $140 is a bit much. You can get a set of (I think) 5 files for $40 but what if they're not the sizes youneed, then what? I thought about getting a set, myself but by the time the package arrives to my door, I'm probably up to $200, Canadian.[/quote']

 

yeah its crazy. im gonna have to just find out what sizes i need and just buy those.

[ShredAstaire]

Whats the deal with lubricating the nut? Can someone educate me on that? My Les Paul's G string buzzes when i am playing the lower notes...would lubricating help this? Forgive my ignorance please...i'm a-learnin'....

[Tim Plains]

The only thing lubing the nut will do is help the string slide when you're tuning. Some (probably most, lol) Gibsons have a poorly cut nut. When you tune (say) the G string up to pitch, just before the string reaches G, you may hear a "ping" type sound and the the note goes way sharp. That's caused by the nut.

 

If your guitar is buzzing on higher frets, you more than likely needs a set up and/or truss rod adjustment. Do yourself a favor and buy a guitar maintenance book. Dan Erelwine has a few good ones. I don't see the point in paying a tech $50+ to do simple things that you can easily do yourself. If a set up doesn't solve it, you may need a fret dress.

[ShredAstaire]

Thanks Are Nine! That's good advice...I will do so.

[gconley]

The only thing lubing the nut will do is help the string slide when you're tuning. Some (probably most' date=' lol) Gibsons have a poorly cut nut. When you tune (say) the G string up to pitch, just before the string reaches G, you may hear a "ping" type sound and the the note goes way sharp. That's caused by the nut.

 

If your guitar is buzzing on higher frets, you more than likely needs a set up and/or truss rod adjustment. Do yourself a favor and buy a guitar maintenance book. Dan Erelwine has a few good ones. I don't see the point in paying a tech $50+ to do simple things that you can easily do yourself. If a set up doesn't solve it, you may need a fret dress.[/quote']

 

thats exactly what my g string does is ping when i tune it. it usually is flat so when i go to tune i hear exactly what your describing. so maybe all i need to do is lube it, but isnt lubing it a temporary fix.

 

also what i have just noticed is that for the past 3 years or so that i have had my les paul i have been putting the bridge on backwards(with the screws facing down) lol i was just watching some videos and noticed all the bridges had the screws facing up towards the neck. wonder what a difference switching it the proper way will make, if any at all?

[Tim Plains]

It is a temporary fix but should be good enough to last between string changes. I do mine around twice a year.

 

As far as I know, on Les Pauls - Nashville bridges always face the tailpiece, ABR-1 bridges always face the pickups. The advantage of having the screws face the pickups is you can lower your tailpiece a little more. The ABR-1 on my ES-335 faced the tailpiece and the stings touched the screws. I flipped the bridge the other way and the strings cleared the bridge.

[dacookster]

Replace. Bone.

[bobv]

i have had my les paul i have been putting the bridge on backwards(with the screws facing down) lol i was just watching some videos and noticed all the bridges had the screws facing up towards the neck.

 

Not all of them. As R9 pointed out there are two types of bridges: ABR-1 and Nashville. ABR-1's come on the Historics and most of the production run GibsonUSA guitars have Nashvilles (this varies however since some of the Classic LP's had ABR-1's).

 

If your bridge has a wire holding the saddles it's an ABR-1 and the screws should face the neck. (There are now no-wire ABR-1 bridges on the 2009 Historic Reissues but up until then, the wire was the giveaway).

 

If your bridge studs look like headless bolts or machine screws that thread directly into the wood without any bushing or socket, it's and ABR-1.

 

If you bridge has little thumbwheels that spin separately from the studs like nuts, it's an ABR-1.

 

If your bridge is nickel instead of chrome, it's probably an ABR-1.

 

If two or three of the saddles face backwards instead of slanting away from the neck, it's probably an ABR-1.

 

On the other hand, if your bridge sits on little contraptions that have an integral wheel stuck permanently/moulded onto a stud that's threaded underneath the wheels and smooth above the wheels, weyall then whatchagotthere is a Nashville bridge. The saddle adjustment screws face the tailpiece (Nashville is further South than Kalamazoo, so I think of a Nashville bridge facing South, not necessarily a helpful memory trick though since I got it backwards the first time I typed this).

 

If you have metal threaded inserts that look like little washers stuck to the guitar top under the bridge, then it's a Nashville.

 

If your bridge has pre-notched saddles that are all the same size and all exactly centered on the saddle, it's a new Nashville.

 

If you have a Nashville you may have discovered that the body of the bridge is wider than the ABR-1 and you probably won't be able to crank the tailpiece all the way down because the high and low E strings will start to hit the back edge of the bridge.

 

And if you had the bridge off, and didn't notice that the bass saddles had big notches and the treble notches were smaller, or you didn't notice how it says "ABR-1" stamped underneath, then you might be a redneck...

[bobv]

Oh and you can also get a set of nut slot files from Luthier's Mercantile International although if I recall correctly it doesn't have an .028" file so you'd have to get that one individually from them or Stew Mac. Stew Mac does have some double-sided files so you wouldn't need the full set - problem is you need a little experience knowing what you can get away with before you can put your own set together like that, so you're safer getting files that match the string gauges in your set, and that's an expensive proposition.

 

It's going to wind up costing a hundred and change for a set of these files, quite worth it if you're going to replace your own nuts on a bunch of guitars.

 

But if you're talking about one guitar, you might be better served getting one good professional setup including nut slot filing and a light fret dressing and you won't need to do it again. From there, learn to do your own trussrod, bridge height, and intonation adjustments since those things do need to be tweaked through the seasons. I'd say that's the middle ground shared by many well informed musicians (I'm not one of those).

[gconley]

Oh and you can also get a set of nut slot files from Luthier's Mercantile International although if I recall correctly it doesn't have an .028" file so you'd have to get that one individually from them or Stew Mac. Stew Mac does have some double-sided files so you wouldn't need the full set - problem is you need a little experience knowing what you can get away with before you can put your own set together like that' date=' so you're safer getting files that match the string gauges in your set, and that's an expensive proposition.

 

It's going to wind up costing a hundred and change for a set of these files, quite worth it if you're going to replace your own nuts on a bunch of guitars.

 

But if you're talking about one guitar, you might be better served getting one good professional setup including nut slot filing and a light fret dressing and you won't need to do it again. From there, learn to do your own trussrod, bridge height, and intonation adjustments since those things do need to be tweaked through the seasons. I'd say that's the middle ground shared by many well informed musicians (I'm not one of those).[/quote']

 

i use gauge 9 on all my guitars except for my acoustic so im just gonna buy the g string file that matches up with my gauge.

 

my camera sux so i found a couple pics on google. the first one is similar to mine but i dont have that flame poly finish(if thats even what it is?) or the gold hardware, mine is chrome. it has the same bridge as mine though and its a closer pic than the second. the second pic is the same as mine but not as close up. still not very clear pics but it sounds like i have the abr-1 and do have it facing the right way(screws facing bottom of guitar(tailpiece)

 

 

[DAS44]

Personaly...

 

I'd have a pro file the nut.

 

It doesnt take much to screw it up even worse.... and then you have to deal with puttin another on

[max2343]

Don't get a File Kit. Waste of money. Your not Buying and reslotting

 

alot of Blank nuts.

 

Just use your Guitar Strings as a Saw and just a Few Times Back and Forth.

 

The Pinch at the Nut Has to be Just Right, otherwise it won't intonate and Will

 

ring out Flat.

 

And Wrap your Strings to Lock. Check out youtube then you'll see how to do it.

 

Save your money and get a Few extra nuts. Like a Brass one and/or a

 

TusQ Nut . TusQ Nuts are man made Ivory and make a big Difference in Sound.

[gconley]

Don't get a File Kit. Waste of money. Your not Buying and reslotting

 

alot of Blank nuts.

 

Just use your Guitar Strings as a Saw and just a Few Times Back and Forth.

 

The Pinch at the Nut Has to be Just Right' date=' otherwise it won't intonate and Will

 

ring out Flat.

 

And Wrap your Strings to Lock. Check out youtube then you'll see how to do it.

 

Save your money and get a Few extra nuts. Like a Brass one and/or a

 

TusQ Nut . TusQ Nuts are man made Ivory and make a big Difference in Sound.[/quote']

 

ive seen some nut filing videos but not the way your talking about. ive not heard of that before, then again i dont know much about the subject at all to begin with lol.

[max2343]

If the Nut is Hanging up and its pinging. Just look at the Slot with a cheep pair of glasses or Something with no string in the slot. If its cut clean with no Burrs. You have a Few Choices.

Go with a lighter gauge string set and a little lube and your Set, or just use a say .017 or .018 "G" string anything 1 thousand thicker than you usually use and make sure you do not go any deeper.

Allways check your string height first by fretting the string at the 2nd fret and measure the gap between your string and the 1st Fret and this is with all strings tuned to pitch.

Normal gaps are .010 for the low "E" and .006 for the High "E"

If after its perfectly Intonated its give-in-ya Sharp Chords at the 1st / 2nd & 3rd frets and on most likely the "G" string lower its Height only by .001 at a time. Be real careful thats a real little bit and you only have about .002 or maybe .003 before its laying on the Fret and fretting out and its time to for another nut or time to fill the slot and recut-it

All Gibson kind-a Suck with a General factory nut cut and are set high and they do this just like everyone else for good reason and will require a light touch ( just something I cant do while playing) while playing open chords.

If you Tweak the nut just right with the right foward bow and String height at the Bridge, it will be like a new Guitar.

Good luck and remember if your gone-a play around with it, your gone-a screw-up at least a few.

[cdntac]

I bought a small filing kit at a hardware store --- it cost around $6.

 

I think there are five or six files in it. One was a very thin file.

 

I gave a few of the nut slots on my Byrdland a couple of very light swipes with it (and I mean VERY light) and immediately had two things improve:

 

1) Tuning. My Byrdland stays in tune for a long time now. Once the strings start to die though they go out of tune quickly (at least IMO).

 

2) When I first got my Byrd in May I found that --- on a few strings --- that the notes on the 1st to 5th frets would play sharp. IIRC, the big E, G and B strings were the worst. I'd have the guitar perfectly intonated and in tune and an A5 chord would sound awful due to the sharp big E A-note on the 5th fret.

 

Once I grooved their nut slots a tiny, tiny bit lower this problem disappeared.

 

Don't be afraid to delicately groove the nut slots. Just use common sense --- you're not filing wood. Just run the file over the slots with barely any pressure. Restring, see what happens and then repeat if necessary.

[mcmurray]

hey guys' date=' im brand new here and happy to be a part of this forum.

 

my question is regarding the nut on my cherry red american made les paul special with the dot inlays. i know the g string saying out of tune is a common problem, so ive heard. i am going to buy the nut filing kit since i keep hearing that the g string slot probably needs to be filed down a little more.

 

what do you guys think? any tips on filing nuts. i have never done it but want to do it myself.

 

thanks guys,

gary[/quote']

 

Careful you don't file the nut slot too deep, otherwise you'll get buzzing everywhere. Fret the string at the 3rd fret and there should be a hairs clearance between the string and the first fret. If it's like this you don't want to go lower.

 

I'd try lubing the nut with graphite first (i.e. a soft pencil). I don't think the nut slot depth would cause your G string to go out of tune.

 

Also, as max2343 said, make sure you have locked the strings on the tuning peg correctly.

[bobv]

I bought a small filing kit at a hardware store --- it cost around $6.

 

 

If it was sold as a file set, then it sounds like a needle file set which would be the wrong tool for the job. You don't get a round-bottomed slot that way and it's not possible to fit it into the thin slots for the plain strings.

 

If, however, it was a welders tip-cleaning set, then yes, those do have little round file-sort-of tools that will do the job in a pinch.

 

Using the string itself is not much help for the plain strings, and it is quite often the plain third string that's the problem. For the wound strings, it will work if you use a little abrasive compound (like a coarse car polishing compound) on a scrap length of string and polish the nut slot with that.

[gconley]

If the Nut is Hanging up and its pinging. Just look at the Slot with a cheep pair of glasses or Something with no string in the slot. If its cut clean with no Burrs. You have a Few Choices.

Go with a lighter gauge string set and a little lube and your Set' date=' or just use a say .017 or .018 "G" string anything 1 thousand thicker than you usually use and make sure you do not go any deeper.

Allways check your string height first by fretting the string at the 2nd fret and measure the gap between your string and the 1st Fret and this is with all strings tuned to pitch.

Normal gaps are .010 for the low "E" and .006 for the High "E"

If after its perfectly Intonated its give-in-ya Sharp Chords at the 1st / 2nd & 3rd frets and on most likely the "G" string lower its Height only by .001 at a time. Be real careful thats a real little bit and you only have about .002 or maybe .003 before its laying on the Fret and fretting out and its time to for another nut or time to fill the slot and recut-it

All Gibson kind-a Suck with a General factory nut cut and are set high and they do this just like everyone else for good reason and will require a light touch ( just something I cant do while playing) while playing open chords.

If you Tweak the nut just right with the right foward bow and String height at the Bridge, it will be like a new Guitar.

Good luck and remember if your gone-a play around with it, your gone-a screw-up at least a few.[/quote']

 

some good info here thanks man, thanks to everybody actually. you all have been very helpful and im really glad i joined this forum. nothing like getting as much help as i did on my first topic[cool]

 

what i need to do is go buy the proper ruler, ever ruler i have only goes to 16ths of an inch. im sure a hardware store by me will have one with the measurements i need for guitar. i use mostly 9's on all my guitars so i think im gonna invest in some nut files that will work with them along with some graphite lube.

 

as long as i have been playing, you guys may laugh but i will admit it anyways, i have never done any measurements for my action or anything, i have always done it by feel. ive heard normal action height is around a 64th of an inch? and since i have never had a ruler to measure those heights i am also not familiar with reading those measurements. so i think i will go to home depot or somewhere and buy the correct ruler i need for once so i can measure action and the nut height as well. ill probably go to guitar center and get some of that graphite lube too.