surfpup Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Just buy ProTools and do it all with patches - I hear that's what all the cool kids do these days. :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yes' date=' that much. There's a reason for it.[/quote'] It's not that big of a change when I swap them out. You must be putting them in wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Hey, new question. How loud is a 5W full tube amp compared to a 15w solid state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Hey' date=' new question. How loud is a 5W full tube amp compared to a 15w solid state?[/quote'] Louder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Louder seriously? I mean, I know that the tube is obviously louder, but its really louder than a 15w ss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 seriously? I mean' date=' I know that the tube is obviously louder, but its really louder than a 15w ss?[/quote'] yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 It's not that big of a change when I swap them out. You must be putting them in wrong. Clean volume. The 12AU7 has an amplification factor of 10; the 12AX7 mu is 100. Perceived volume may not change much, but the preamp's ability to produce an undistorted signal is greatly diminished. How does one put a tube in "wrong?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 In fact 5 tube watts is quite loud. Unless you need to hang with a loud drummer, 5 watts will p*ss off your family and neighbors. That said, clean headroom becomes the issue. 5 watt tube amps sound great clean, but you can't play them clean with a band (the drummers fault again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 In fact 5 tube watts is quite loud. Unless you need to hang with a loud drummer' date=' 5 watts will p*ss off your family and neighbors. That said, clean headroom becomes the issue. 5 watt tube amps sound great clean, but you can't play them clean with a band (the drummers fault again). [/quote'] But I thought a 5w like the Vox AC4 or Fender Champion, would breakup easier at volumes loud enough for 10-20 people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 or would it stay clean at the volumes which are loud enough for 15-20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverbursted Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Screw it, just go with this rig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shnate McDuanus Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 As far as Class A vacuum tube watts go, every time the amount of watts double, the maximum volume only increases by roughly three decibels. At least, this is what my guitar teacher tells me. I haven't done research as of yet, but he's been in the business for about forty years, so I'll take his words (with a grain of salt) as potentially accurate, until I find something that refutes it. It sounds pretty good, though, to me. And yeah, watts in terms of tubes provide more volume than transistor watts, in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Screw it' date=' just go with this rig...[img']http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj111/Silverbursted/800px-MarshallStack_Slayer.jpg[/img] I would be happy with just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Clean volume. The 12AU7 has an amplification factor of 10; the 12AX7 mu is 100. Perceived volume may not change much' date=' but the preamp's ability to produce an undistorted signal is greatly diminished. How does one put a tube in "wrong?"[/quote'] Indeed the AX7 has a gain factor of 100 however the AU7's gain factor is actually 19 and not 10. Also, I made a wrong suggestion with swapping out the AU7 for the AX7 that would not be a good swap. What I meant to type was the 12AT7 which has a gain factor of 60 or even the 12AY7 which has a gain factor of 45. So if you plug in a AT7 (gain factor of 60) this means that your pre-amp will have 40% less gain. Yes it will reduce volume some but it also reduces gain and he is wanting a clean signal - less gain. This will make the power tubes work a little harder as you turn up the vol but again with less gain because the pre-amp (where most people dial in their distortion) is in capable of producing as much gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Indeed the AX7 has a gain factor of 100 however the AU7's gain factor is actually 19 and not 10. Also' date=' I made a wrong suggestion with swapping out the AU7 for the AX7 that would not be a good swap. What I meant to type was the 12AT7 which has a gain factor of 60 or even the 12AY7 which has a gain factor of 45. So if you plug in a AT7 (gain factor of 60) this means that your pre-amp will have 40% less gain. Yes it will reduce volume some but it also reduces gain and he is wanting a clean signal - less gain. This will make the power tubes work a little harder as you turn up the vol but again with less gain because the pre-amp (where most people dial in their distortion) is in capable of producing as much gain. [/quote'] Tomayto, tomahto - with less amplification available in the preamp tube, you have to turn it down to keep it clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 no it's the other way around. With less in the pre-amp it allows you to use more power tube section thus remaining clean because you have to really crank the amp to get the power tubes to compress and distort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 no it's the other way around. With less in the pre-amp it allows you to use more power tube section thus remaining clean because you have to really crank the amp to get the power tubes to compress and distort. OK. I guess that's why the 12AX7 was developed - to creat distortion. (Gain does not mean distortion - it means gain.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 OK. I guess that's why the 12AX7 was developed - to creat distortion. (Gain does not mean distortion - it means gain.) Whatev do what you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max2343 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 What is going on? A AU7 Will clean up your Sound. Big time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 What is going on? A AU7 Will clean up your Sound. Big time I suppose it depends on the circuit - as before, tomayto, tomahto. If you have an amp with little headroom, it won't make much difference either way. The original question was about a clean amp - not whether the problems of the world can be solved by swapping tubes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 K, how do I get the Fender Champion 600 to remain clean at higher volumes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingarmadillo Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 K' date=' how do I get the Fender Champion 600 to remain clean at higher volumes?[/quote'] You can't, there's only a single preamp tube, a single power tube and a single volume control, not separate preamp and master volumes. You might clean it up a little with the AT7 tube in place of the AX7 which won't drive the power side as hard but you're going to lose volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max2343 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I suppose it depends on the circuit - as before' date=' tomayto, tomahto. If you have an amp with little headroom, it won't make much difference either way. The original question was about a clean amp - not whether the problems of the world can be solved by swapping tubes.[/quote'] What are you Ramblling about? and being a Smart-*** for. Installing a AU where a AX was, will clean up a Amp. Any Amp. Including a Champ 600. And works great on most when you want to overdrive the front of an Amp with a pedal for a Different Sound/Punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 You can't' date=' there's only a single preamp tube, a single power tube and a single volume control, not separate preamp and master volumes. You might clean it up a little with the AT7 tube in place of the AX7 which won't drive the power side as hard but you're going to lose volume.[/quote'] Same goes for the Vox AC4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingarmadillo Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Same goes for the Vox AC4? Yep and the Epi Valve Junior too. You have to step up to step up to something with separate preamp and master volume controls like the Fender Blues Junior or an AC15 or the Epi Valve Senior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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