atrain Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hello All, Apologies for a long first post on the forum. I've been lurking for a few years and have found the forum very informative and entertaining, and it's been great reading about people's experiences with Gibson acoustics and vicariously experiencing GAS. After much searching and playing in shops around NYC, I found and purchased a new AJ 2 years ago (2007) from a Gibson retailer in Georgia while on vacation, and it's been one of the supreme pleasures of my life. I noticed about a year ago though, that one of the tuners (G string) is much rougher to turn than the others. Been able to deal with it, doesn't affect the ability to tune the string any more than the normal difficulty in getting the G to pitch, but it's very noticeable when restringing. Then yesterday, I restrung my guitar, and noticed the same symptom on the high E tuner. I applied a very tiny drop of sewing machine oil to the gear and worm on both tuners and rotated them through a few cycles to get the oil distributed, but it didn't seem to help much. The other tuners turn very smoothly in comparison. Living in a NYC apartment, I have to deal with dryness issues, and I've been fastidious about monitoring ambient humidity and keeping the guitar in the case with Oasis humidifiers (one at the headstock, one in the body) when humidity drops below 45%. Has anyone experienced this symptom with the stock Gotoh open back tuners? What are recommendations re replacing them with Waverlys? Inspecting the Gotohs, I've noticed that they incorporate these little plastic bushings at each end of the gear worm, and I'm wondering if maybe that's the culprit? The general opinion seems to be that the Waverlys are much better quality than the Gotohs, but some others have mentioned a negative affect on tone. If I were to go with Waverlys, are they a direct replacement on the AJ, meaning do the screw holes line up, post diameter the same, etc.? And just to add a proper introduction to y'all, my name is John, I live in way upper Manhattan (10 minute walk to the Bronx), grew up in Woodstock in the 70s, play mostly country blues finger picking on my AJ, and play a 73 p-bass in a number of bands in the NY area. I hope to be a more active member of the forum going forward. I've seen that people clamor for guitar pictures from new members, so I'll try to get that together too. Thanks in advance for any advice. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Welcome to the forum and I'll say that you made a fine choice for your Gibson acoustic, they are just amazing guitars. I don't know too much about Waverlys but the Gotohs on my AJ have never given me any issues. I hope you get your fixed to your satisfaction. Again, fine choice on the guitar. They are among the best Gibson makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modac Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Waverlys are worth the investment. They should fit perfectly, with no new screw holes necessary. There is no negative effect on tone. Since your guitar will tune up more precisely with Waverlys, the effect is likely to be positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 Thanks for the replies. I'm thinking the Waverlys are the way to go from everything I've read, especially knowing they have a finer gear ratio. My main concern is whether or not I'll need to redrill holes in the headstock, or if the screw holes will line up and it will be a direct replacement. I actually did that operation on my old Takamine myself, replacing the no-names with grovers, but felt no anxiety on a 30 year old 200 dollar guitar. On the AJ, I'd probably take it to a luthier. It's probably due for a Winter setup anyway. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 John, if you go to the StewMac website you should be able to look up the specs. for both your existing tuners and the Waverly's to compare. Besides the placement of the screw holes, you will want to compare the size of the bushings and see if new ones will fit properly. If not, I understand that there may be an adapter, but haven't done this. I had the Gotoh 510's's on my Greven replaced with Waverly open backed tuners and used the original Gotoh bushings, by the way. It worked well (love the Waverly's, great tuners). The screw holes lined up well also. By the way, I grew up in the Kingston/Woodstock area in the 50's and 60's and know Woodstock quite well. I miss it sometimes, but don't miss the snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 The general opinion seems to be that the Waverlys are much better quality than the Gotohs' date=' but some others have mentioned a negative affect on tone. [/quote'] I am extremely pro-Waverly. I tell people to check out a guitar with Waves installed. Give the tuners a crank. If you go "Wow! I want these!", you're a Waverly-person too. Not everyone reacts that way. Waves probably last longer than the competition. But they also cost four times as much, and you're not likely to live long enough to wear out four sets of 18:1 Grover Stay-tites, so that's not really a good reason to buy Waverlys. Love of beautifully crafted, high-precision machinery is the reason to buy them. (You just might be able to wear out four sets of Gotohs with those extremely fragile plastic bushings, though.) The reports of "negative effect on tone" are mostly due to the taller posts, which, all else being equal, result in a less sharp string break at the nut. If you have a problem with that, you can make something else non-equal by adding a couple more winds of the strings around the posts to compensate. Also, some people are convinced that any increase in tuner mass has a negative effect on tone, and Waves are not the lightest tuner available. Personally, I doubt the difference is enough to matter. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 It gets to the silly area pretty quickly when people start talking "tone". Thats all I have to say about that. Back to the waverly question though. The only issues I have with my gotoh's are strictly cosmetic. I had some work done on the guitar awhile back and the tuners were dulled with some sort of substance and I can't bring back the shine. ( my guess is the luthier had some sort of residue left on his fingers when he tuned up ) Anyway, it didn't bother me enough to mention it to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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