Which is the better guitar for strumming? J45 vs J185

[willmak]

Hey guys! I'm new to this forum and I'm looking for a strummer. Out of these two which one of these would you say is the better choice? Getting an SJ200 is a little bit too much outside my price range.

[bkharmony]

This, like most everything concerning guitars, is completely and totally subjective. That said, they're both great strummers, but I think the J-45 is a little more geared toward finger-picking. The fingerboard feels slightly wider to me (someone with actual measurements, feel free to correct me), and for extended strumming sessions, I think the J-185 is a little better. Also, I find the shape of a 16" jumbo fits me and my strumming action better.

 

But that's just feel. I won't even go into tone, which is completely a matter of preference. As everyone here is about to tell you, play as many examples of each before you purchase one and go with what feels best to you. Who cares what's best for someone else?

[willmak]

How would you guys rate the J185 vs the J200? I have an elitists J200 that I absolutely adore and would hate to pick up a J185 Gibby only to ignore it.

[QuestionMark]

My experience is they are all great for strumming or finger-picking. Regarding the J185 vs the J200...the J200 is historically known as the King of the Flat-tops. The J185 is a derived from the J200. Both are great...but a J200 is still a J200 and still the King of the Flat-tops in the Gibson hierarchy.

 

You might want to consider which can rhythmacally better accomplish what you're trying to achieve. A J45 will give you a great balanced rhythm (strumming) sound. A J200 will give you a big loud booming rhythm (strumming) sound that you'll need to underplay a bit to get it to play like the balanced J-45. On the other hand, a J45 is not likely to be as loud or booming as a J200 unless you intentionally put in overdrive as a player, which BTW, it also is full capable of doing.

 

Hope this helps.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[fretplay]

If all you want the guitar for is strumming it is best to have the strings closer together at the 12th fret.

I would say that measurement is more important than the model.

 

However J45 is a wonderful guitar

[albertjohn]

Nice problem. Tough answer.

 

If it's a folky Dylanesque strumming sound you want go for the J45. If it's Pete Townshend go for the J185.

[Rambler]

folky Dylaneque sound' date=' go for the J45. Pete Townshend, go for the J185.[/quote']

 

Good distinction, AlbertJohn. The J45 has some jangle (and some bluegrass credibility). Early Beatles (I'm looking Through You). Maple jumbos tend to be even, percussive. PT's Who's next sound. Everly Bros & early Cat Stevens (J180s); Patty Griffin (J200jr). Tele vs strat.

[jefleppard]

Nice problem. Tough answer.

 

If it's a folky Dylanesque strumming sound you want go for the J45. If it's Pete Townshend go for the J185.

 

great way to put it.

[Gilliangirl]

Nice problem. Tough answer.

 

If it's a folky Dylanesque strumming sound you want go for the J45. If it's Pete Townshend go for the J185.

Yes, it really does depend on the application. I have said that my Southern Jumbo (which is basically a J45) is a better strummer, but then changed my mind the next day when playing a different song. I'd say both can do that well, but it depends on the song, like Jkinnama said.

[Red 333]

How would you guys rate the J185 vs the J200? I have an elitists J200 that I absolutely adore and would hate to pick up a J185 Gibby only to ignore it.

 

Will' date='

 

Hopefully I can add to the discusion without confusing you more, as I have both an Epiphone Elitist J200 and a Gibson J185. I also have a J45, but it has a rosewood body, so it is tonally different from a "real" J45. My other J45- type mahogany guitars are a Texan (which is long scale) and a J35 (which has AJ bracing), so I can't give you a direct comparison.

 

OK.

 

First, the Epiphone Elitist J200 is an excellent guitar. In some ways, and on many days, it is my favorite. Mine has a very balanced sound in all respects, and produces plenty of volume. The J185 I have sounds similar, but is not as loud. It is more resonant, though, and emphasizes the overtones more. It has a very rich, syrupy sound, which might be preferable in a solo setting, but it might meld into other instruments if you play with others. Played very softly, or on more "polite" music, it might sound fuller to you than the Elitist J200, but it's richness might be too much on rockier stuff. The Elitist J200 is drier and more cutting (though it is not harsh or displeasing in any way).

 

One caveat: my J185 and my J45 (both Custom Vines) are my ONLY two guitars with different strings from the rest. I always use Gibson Masterbuilt Phosphor Bronze or J200 strings, but the two Vines are set up with whatever strings the dealer used. I [i']requested[/i] Gibson strings, but they may not be, and that might account for some of the difference is sound, as that J45 also has a very resonant quality, too.

 

My Elitist J200 has a little bit of a narrower neck: by my measure, it's about 1.69" at the nut, and is about .9" deep at the first fret, give or take.

 

The J185's neck (which is one-piece mahogany, not multi-piece maple like on the J200) is slightly wider and deeper: 1.75" at the nut, and just about 1" deep at the first fret. This is pretty similar to my J45's neck, which is 1.75" at the nut, and slightly more than .9" deep at the first fret.

 

Of course, necks are shaped by hand, somewhat, so there are bound to be slight differences among the same models. Personally, I find even those slight differences in the necks described above enough to notice, but not something I don't get used to almost immediately.

 

The J185 has the same short scale as the J45; the J200 is long scale, which may help contribute to its more cutting quality, as well. Personally, I don't find one scale easier than the other to play, if the guitar is set up poperly. While any guitar with a poor setup can be a bear to play, I find a long scale guitar with a poor setup very difficult. Once I've set it up to my liking, I hardly think about which is which.

 

Hope that helps you a bit. You certainly can't do wrong adding either a J45 or J185 to your stable. Since you already have a maple bodied jumbo, you might want to lean toward the J45. To me, a J200 and J45 are like peanut butter and jelly. Both are great on their own, but it's even better to have both. If you're just starting your collection, a J200 and J185 is like having peanut butter and chunky peanut butter. That just might be the ticket if you're a peanut butter fiend. If not, you might want more variety. It's all a matter of taste.

 

Good luck with your decision, and let us know what you choose.

 

Red 333

[willmak]

Wow Red! You have all three guitars! Nice!

 

Well The reason why I was wanting either one at first was because I love the sound form the elitist J200. I have another guitar, A taylor rosewood 414ce, that I use to love and play alot until the elitist came along. Now the taylor just sits in her case all day long. I've come to appreciate the more gibson midrange tone and the smaller 1.68 nut on the elitist. so you're saying the J185 & the J45 both have 1.75 nuts? Awww that's the same as my taylor...which I've come to not like as much as the 1.68 length now.

 

I wanted to sell the taylor and get a used version of the J45 or J185 since I am digging that midrange tone more....but I am afraid tha tI will get either one and still continue to lie my elitist too much, causing the new gibby to sit in its case all day like the taylor.

 

BTW Red, how come you bought an elitist in the first place? I'm assuming it couldn't have been a cost issue since you have two custom vine guitars. So how come you didn't just opt for a gibson J200?

[bkharmony]

so you're saying the J185 & the J45 both have 1.75 nuts? Awww that's the same as my taylor...which I've come to not like as much as the 1.68 length now.

 

Keep in mind, just because two nuts have the same measurement, they won't necessarily feel the same. I have a an SJ-200, an L-4A (real similar to a J-185) and an Epi J-200. They all have the same nut measurement, and they all feel different. SJ-200 feels the biggest, L-4A is in the middle and the Epi J-200 feels the smallest. Go figure.

[Red 333]

Wow Red! You have all three guitars! Nice!

 

BTW Red' date=' how come you bought an elitist in the first place? I'm assuming it couldn't have been a cost issue since you have two custom vine guitars. So how come you didn't just opt for a gibson J200? [/quote']

 

I wish it weren't so, but cost is always an issue. The fact is the Elitist J200 came my way at the right time and for the right price. It wasn't like I was looking for a J200, and chose it over a Gibson for any reason--it was simply that an opportunity to get a good guitar for a good price came my way. At that time, I had already collected a number of Elitist acoustics and electrics, so I needed less convincing about thier quality than had I no previous experience with them. I have played a number of Gibson J200s that were of course, outstanding, and to me, inarguably better looking, as the back and sides were more highly flamed than the Elitists somewhat humbler, J100/J150 appearance. Still, the Elitist is a solid example of breed, and a joy to play.

 

If you like the size of the Elitist J200's neck, but still want a slope shoulder, mahogany dread, you might want to look for an Elitist Texan, or better, Elitist Paul McCartney '64 Texan. The neck is maybe a smidge narrower (maybe 1.65") and is about as deep. I would imagine (but don't know this for a fact) that the '60s Reissue J45s might also have necks of a similar dimension. Call Jeremy at Fuller's Vintage Instruments in Houston, TX (they sell them there) and inquire.

 

My Elitist J200 is on the top row on the right, and three Texans are in the center of the middle row, surrounded bya pair of Advanced Jumbos (rosewood and maple). My favorite guitar, a Fuller's Vintage J35 Reissue, is on the second from the left on the top row, next to the Gibson J160E Standard:

 

 

 

For kicks, here are the Vines:

 

 

 

 

And, just to show how much I like the Elitists, an Elitist Byrdland and Broadway are on the bottom row, left:

 

 

 

Some Elitist Casinos are on the top row, and an Elitist ES 335 second from the right on the bottom row, next to the three Gibsons (ES 333, 335, and 339):

 

 

 

Finally, here is an Elitist SG and two Elitist Les Paul Standards:

 

 

Red 333

[albertjohn]

Bloody hell Red333, that's what you call a stable.

 

Fantastic.

[Rambler]

Bloody hell Red333' date=' that's what you call a stable.[/quote']

And right glad I dont 'ave to clean it out (lol)!

[Gibson101]

Will' date='

 

The J185's neck (which is one-piece mahogany, not multi-piece maple like on the J200) is slightly wider and deeper: 1[b'].75" at the nut[/b], and just about 1" deep at the first fret. This is pretty similar to my J45's neck, which is 1.75" at the nut, and slightly more than .9" deep at the first fret.

 

 

 

Red 333

I also have both guitars and mine are standard Gibson 1.725 nut widths, I know the difference between that an 1.75 seems small but I can tell the difference between my Gibson's and Martins.

[Gibson101]

BTW awsome collection Red!!