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Dumping on Gibson


maninblack

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I just called a new, local dealer of boutique and high end guitars to inquire about a Collings D1A I saw on their website. They just opened this year so I have no prior experience. I casually mentioned to him I was looking at Gibson Legend but wanted to try some other Hog/Adi guitars too. Really I just wanted to make sure they'd be open this holiday weekend. But when I mentioned Gibson it was like I flipped a switch. This guy just went off. "No matter what you do, whether you buy a Collings or not, do not buy a Gibson EVER. Trust me!" He proceeds to go on a 10 minute rant about the Nashville raid, almost certain bankruptcy, attempted takeovers by Peavy, secret manufacturing of Gibson's in China, and all kinds of other illegal or underhanded stuff that "hasn't even hit the mainstream yet." He caps it all off with a few shots at how lousy their build quality is.

 

I am left feeling cold. Everything this guy says about the business dealings could be true or partially true. How would I know? I've also heard from a Gibson dealer recently that there have been some personnel shake-ups in Bozeman. That's never a good sign. But what I wonder is if this guy has ever played a Gibson acoustic? I have around 12 Bozeman Gibson's right now that have more soul and character than any other guitars I've touched. I've got some very nice Collings and Martins, but at the end of the day I always want that Gibson feel and tone.

 

When people bash Gibsons its like they might as well be telling me I have tin ears and no taste. Could we all be wrong? Man, it pisses me off.

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I get a lot of negative response from salesmen about Gibsons also. What's funny though is almost every mainstream musician I see performing on talk and variety shows is playing a Gibson. Go figure....?

 

BTW, which of your Gibbies are you playing on the opening of Harlem Fairytale? That's a great song.

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Sour Grapes.

 

I have a good acquaintance who is the manager of one of the largest music stores in seattle. Martins, Taylors and several boutique builders. Never Gibson. I've cajoled and admonished him for not having Gibsons on the big wall.

 

At first, he said it was all about the 'poor quality'. Now I've performed at his store's concert venue several times- the last time with a new Montana L00. He admitted that was a 'pretty nice guitar'... And then the real reason for no Gibsons: the contract terms with retail stores.

 

If someone talks about poor quality- I have to wonder what planet they're on.

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bottom line?

screw him!

haha

 

regardless of whether or not he likes a particular guitar company or not...it doesnt do anything to diminish the fact that YOU love playing gibsons and you love their sound...their tone...their feel...etc...

 

are collings good guitars?

of course!

are martins and taylors?

of course...

 

but im in the same boat as you that a gibson just feels "right" to me...sounds "right"...looks "right" so for me its easy!

 

i could give two kittens whiskers whether or not their ceo is a jerk or their quality control stinks...etc...my guitars are perfect and those are the only ones im concerned with!

haha

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I had a similar experience at a shop when I asked about a used Gibson he had in his shop. The guy went into a rant. The Best he had to offer in his store was a line of New Samick guitars. Most people who bash something really show their lack of knowledge of the product. All of My 6 gibson are of Good to excellent quality. The ones that are merely good is because of my failure to keep them adjusted properly and overuse. I could never wear out a cheap guitar because it would not get played enough. And I would never wear out a $5000+guitar because I would be afraid to play it.I have worn out 2 Gibsons and a Martin. When I speak to people who want to bash Gibson I just ask them how many old models of their brand do they still see being played.

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If YOU love your Gibby' s , the heck with him. I thought that the " one type of guitar is great and the other brand totally sucks" argument was limited to online debates between 20 year olds. Maybe that guy should join them ! Like was stated above..........lots of people make nice guitars , just different , with contrasting qualities and features that make them special. I'd like to have one of each , who wouldn't?

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Sour Grapes. ... ...the real reason for no Gibsons: the contract terms with retail stores.

If someone talks about poor quality- I have to wonder what planet they're on.

 

+1

 

And Gibson relentlessly polices their contracted retailers. In my town, Elderly Instruments got their Gibson retail pulled over advertising prices below Gibsons MAP (minimum advertising price). No more retail Gibbys there, just used.

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The bloke sounds like a w@nker to me.

 

Oh' date=' am I allowed to say "w@nker"?

 

Sorry.[/quote']

 

 

they are lucky AJ.

 

the average "salesman" in a UK shop doesn't even know what a Gibson is. When I bought my Epi from Guiatr Village in Farnham I asked about delivery on a GIbson Sj200 TV and he told me that they never know what is coming in.

 

Old Chestnut as maybe but even with the money in ma pouche I can't find a nice TV!!

 

And I don't know when one might be available.

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Sour Grapes.

 

I have a good acquaintance who is the manager of one of the largest music stores in seattle. Martins' date=' Taylors and several boutique builders. Never Gibson. I've cajoled and admonished him for not having Gibsons on the big wall.

 

At first, he said it was all about the 'poor quality'. Now I've performed at his store's concert venue several times- the last time with a new Montana L00. He admitted that was a 'pretty nice guitar'... And then the real reason for no Gibsons: the contract terms with retail stores.

 

If someone talks about poor quality- I have to wonder what planet they're on. [/quote']

 

Hi Hoss! I think I can guess which music store that is; if it's the one I'm thinking of, then that was the same line they gave me 4-5 years ago when I wandered in there in tow after a couple of other locals. They were pretty harsh.

 

We're on a Seattle trip just now for a few days, and I was considering stopping past that store (if I have it right) and decided to take a pass on it, based on my previous experience.

 

Interestingly, we stopped at Hugo Helmer's today on the way, and they are now a 5* dealer for Gibson, and had some nice stuff on the wall -- Iron Mtn AJ, J-45 r/w Custom, J-250 Monarch and a few others.

 

Fred

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Dealers can talk and talk. They do their job.

Guitars can only play and play. They also do their job too.

We can play on guitars and listen to the sound.

I still have good working ears.

Gibson acoustics sound great to me.

Or: Gibson acoustics sound THE BEST to me (because simply they are!)

 

Speaking about guitars and hearing conversations is not playing on guitars.

 

Play, people, play!

 

And listen with your own ears.

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The whole Taylor sales people bashing Gibson thing can sound a lot like Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh antics. But, that doesn't necessary equate to what's best for the customer or the merits of which guitar is best suited for a prospective buyer's musical needs. I always liked Doyle Dykes' comeback to a heckler at a Taylor guitar workshop he was giving when someone in the audience kept trying to get him to say Taylors were better than Gibsons or Martins. He said something along the lines of...even though he's paid by Taylor to demonstrate their guitars, he refuses to ever putdown Gibsons or Martins because 1) he likes playing Gibsons and Martins, and 2) there would be no Taylor Guitar Company if the Gibson and Martin companies didn't build the guitar industry with their fine guitars over the years. I always respected Dykes for that high road approach (as well as for his great playing.)

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

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QM nailed it...

 

I won't get into my acoustic choices, but the bottom line is a combination of what fit my needs when they were purchased and what felt comfortable especially for my left hand.

 

Martins have to me a wonderful sound - but I've never liked the necks. Never played a Taylor.

 

In electric instruments I personally don't care for Fender neck radius or even the Tele sound - but gee, I love listening to old Roy Buchanan recordings... Hmmmm.

 

Nobody ever made a guitar sound or play better by saying another guitar sounds or plays poorly. I think the best music is made by someone who feels his guitar is part of him...

 

m

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While there's lots of trash talking nobodys who just repeat stuff they heard without any real experience of their own, it's also true that Gibson has done things to earn a less than stellar reputation. So have most other instrument makers- Martin certainly overbraced their guitars for a decade or so- but I think the Gibson "reputation" for being hit or miss is generally true for a lot of the fairly recent past.

 

Todays Bozeman guitars seem pretty consistent- for the first time in a long time.

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The whole Taylor sales people bashing Gibson thing can sound a lot like Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh antics.

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

 

That's so funny, because on a trip to Bozeman a few years ago, I had the opportuniyty to talk to Ren Fergeson for a few minutes. I hadn't yet bought a Gibson, but complimented him on the product his team was building, and mentioned I would like to get one eventually. He said there were many quality builders producing great guitars, and went on to say very kind things about Taylor and other brands and builders. That impressed me. He displayed real class, and it was one of things that influenced me to buy my first Gibson.

 

Red 333

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The whole Taylor sales people bashing Gibson thing can sound a lot like Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh antics. But' date=' that doesn't necessary equate to what's best for the customer or the merits of which guitar is best suited for a prospective buyer's musical needs. I always liked Doyle Dykes' comeback to a heckler at a Taylor guitar workshop he was giving when someone in the audience kept trying to get him to say Taylors were better than Gibsons or Martins. He said something along the lines of...even though he's paid by Taylor to demonstrate their guitars, he refuses to ever putdown Gibsons or Martins because 1) he likes playing Gibsons and Martins, and 2) there would be no Taylor Guitar Company if the Gibson and Martin companies didn't build the guitar industry with their fine guitars over the years. [/quote']

 

I think that this puts things in pretty good perspective.

 

Another thing to keep in mind: companies like Gibson and Martin have been around long enough to weather some "stormy periods" in their history. We are all aware that during these times they cranked out quite a few less than desirable instruments. But one bad apple..., etc., etc.. The extended histories of some of these other manufacturers are yet to be determined.

 

Most everyone here is familiar with Gibson acoustics that are stellar, including numerous guitars coming out of Bozeman. However, many people out there might base their opinions of Gibson acoustics on some of those less than desirable models that they are familiar with. In the end, we can all let our own ears and hearts make the decisions when it comes to our guitars of choice.

 

All the best,

Guth

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I'm no academic when it comes to selling. But people buy from people. If, as a salesman, you start by slagging off your potential customers choice's and values, there will be no relationship and therefore no sale.

 

In the UK many retailers have had a hard time with Gibson over the last 2 or 3 years and some won't deal with them. Few slag them off though and the ones that do don't see me very often for the consumables we all use.

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I'm no academic when it comes to selling. But people buy from people. If' date=' as a salesman, you start by slagging off your potential customers choice's and values, there will be no relationship and therefore no sale.

 

In the UK many retailers have had a hard time with Gibson over the last 2 or 3 years and some won't deal with them. Few slag them off though and the ones that do don't see me very often for the consumables we all use.[/quote']

 

 

Do you know what I don't get AJ?

 

The fact that you, me, Jinder, Celticbuoy, lovelylegs (or whatever the chap from Slough's name is) et al have been barking on about service and information levels in the UK for 18 months on this venerable forum.

 

Presumably someone from Bozeman looks here from time to time even if masquerading as one of the gussets.

 

Why doesn't anyone EVER comment?

 

Like Bozeman's New Year resolution is to create/maintain/restore a supply channel in Europe.

 

If Taylor and Martin can create incentive for shops to become dealers and thus provide information to facilitate the purchase of their products then how come Gibson Acoustic seems totally unable to do so.

The Introduction of the word “Acoustic” in above paragraph is vital as other Gibson products are on the shelves and if requested a “Salesman” can give a delivery date of a Slash autograph, Johnny Winter, Ted Nugent cross over interface Les Paul Robot Darkfire GTE Turbo!!

 

 

It remains, in my very humble, well exercised and getting very pished off opinion, that the best way to buy a Gibson acoustic in the UK is 2nd hand from Ebay, perhaps Glenns Guitars although they never seem to have the SJ200 I crave, or you can at the moment buy SJ200s and also various Blues Kings hand painted by someone from Coldplay for £5000.

 

 

BTW?

 

WTF are Coldplay?

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You're quite correct, the problem seems not to exist with the electrics.

 

Gibson Acoustic have a long way to go in the UK to catch up with the likes of Martin and Taylor.

 

To get back to original thread, a few years ago I visited my local shop who have a fabulous range of Fender electrics including many Custom Shops. I got talking to the owner as I had recently bought my Highway 1. He proceeded to tell me how foolish I was because it was basically a Mex strat assembled in USA and for the price of a hard case, I could have just about had a USA standard model, or whatever they were called then.

 

Now he had a point of course, and a very good one, (who is the w@nker now?) but as a new and excited strat owner, this was not a good sales pitch. I have subsequently bought about £4ks worth of guitars, none of which was from this shop! (They don't stock Gibsons).

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There seems to be plenty of Gibson bashing at the local shops in my area as well. I hate it when someone bashes another brand of guitar or states that their brand of choice is the only choice. I grew up playing Martins. They are great guitars and I still have a vintage series D18 and an HD28.

In my opinion, Gibson guitars due not necessarily stand out on a first strum like a Martin. However, after spending some time and exploring the sounds of my j-45 I found that the Gibson sound grows on you and now I prefer it to the Martins that I currently own and the two Taylors I have owned in the past.

I wish that Gibson was easier on their dealer policy and there could be more dealers in my area.

I am currently in search of a Gibson J-45 TV. Once the Gibson bug bites, there is no substitution.

Also, I have noticed that my Gibson guitars have always sounded better plugged in, as compared to the Martins. I have never found a Martin that sounded right to me through a PA or quality amp. However, the Gibsons seem to just simply sound great when plugged in. They also sound great acoustically!

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