van halen V steve vai...

[S t e v e]

me too, at xmas...

[S t e v e]

Oh come on' date=' can't I just say I dig them both?

 

Or is that too much of a cop-out?[/quote']

 

+1 my friend...there both the nuts

[Shnate McDuanus]

Of course, if we're just going on about shredders, my favorite's not really a typical choice:

 

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xymVxcLQVT8&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

[SHO]

Steve's work in Zappa's band alone beats the **** out of anything Eddie ever did both technique wise and music wise. In my opinion, I should add.

[cwness]

News flash Eddie didn't invent tapping. I just saw an old TV show with

Chet Atkins tapping up a storm in the late fifty's' early 60's. On that big

Gretsch I about fell over. Multi finger right hand tapping. I've looked

for a clip but I was channel surfing and don't know what it was on.

Chet was ahead of Eddie but where did Chet learn it.

 

CW

[NeoConMan]

Ace Frehley is where I first heard it myself, or at least recognized what it was.

Check out "Shock Me" on Alive II.

1978, before the first VH album came out if I recall.

Those concerts were recorded well in advance of the release date.

And Ace Frehley, though a decent blues/rock guitarist, isn't gonna go down in history for inventing ANYTHING.

 

Gene Simmons was courting Van Halen trying to get them a record deal before Warner Bros. signed them.

Wonder if Eddie saw it there?

To be honest, when I first heard the Van Halen album I could not believe that was only one guitar.

Friends of mine were blown away, I thought it was dubbed from multiple tracks.

The argument ensued with us listening repeatedly to the album - yes, on vinyl because cassettes sucked ***.

 

When the record labels were snooping around, people told Eddie to turn his back to the audience to conceal

his tapping technique so rival players didn't steal his methods and cut them out of the running for a record deal.

 

It's a fact that not many players had incorporated it into their songs in southern California, but there are many

who claim to have been doing it before EVH became known for it - thus credited for its 'invention' in rock.

 

 

In reality, anybody who's ever checked the set up on a guitars neck has done some 'tapping' themselves.

Do it while it's plugged in and.....

 

Where did it originate?

Hard sayin' not knowin'....

 

This discussion has been going on for 30 years, I confess I have no answers.

[:oilpit:]

It's really not about who invented tapping, I know that a lot of people only like to focus on that, but if you took tapping out of his repertoire, he would still be MILES better than Steve.

 

If this thread was EVH vs. Brian May, Jeff Beck, Randy Rhoads. Even someone like Yngwie Malmsteen, it would have merit.

But Steve Vai...really?

 

All he can do is blaze through the scales that Joe Satriani taught him, drench his tone in effects and wear flamboyant clothes.

He hasn't done anything, Eddie completely changed guitar. Steve just plays one.

[HeadCase]

I can listen to a whole lot of EVH...

I can't listen to a whole lot of S.Via.

[Rocky4]

Brussels sprouts or Canned spinach?

 

They're both green' date=' and yet they both make me gag.[/quote']

 

Don't be dissin' my sprouts! Broccoli rocks too!

 

On another note, I remember listening to the radio back in 1978. A remake of You Really Got Me played and the dj saying Van something or other. I thought Van Morrison? Didn't sound like him. Eventually, I figured it out and grew up listening to Van Halen. Eddie changed everything. Fair Warning is one the best rock albums recorded.

 

Eddie Van Halen is the originator, Vai is just another fish in the pond.

[myspace.com/jessenoah]

I really didnt want to throw my **** in among this contest

 

 

we all have bands we dislike, or dont really care for, I might talk smack about nickleback, or dislike SRVs wanking over the same 3 chords, or jump through hoops to turn the radio station before the second note of Bob Seiger's hollywood nights, or Led Zeppelin's Fool in the rain, but steve vai's musical creations really irritate my ears

 

watch this and tell me SV is awesome

 

 

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

 

 

 

night vision goggles?

stepping on your guitar?

 

 

wtf is this!?!?!?!

[:oilpit:]

Jesse, come on, it's an ibanez with a freaking handle....wouldn't you step on it?

 

 

P.S. Fool in the Rain is a spectacular song

[myspace.com/jessenoah]

yea, but not with boots that big, I want to feel it crunching beneath my feet

[G u e s t]

.

Wow - what next..... Guitar Playing as an Olympic Sport.

 

Why does it have to be a competition, this guy is better than that guy?

I always liked playing music, and hated the whole "I can piss higher than you" element.

Seems like nobody just "enjoys" the music, they have to compare and contrast all the time.

 

Sigh.....

.

[dem00n]

.

Wow - what next..... Guitar Playing as an Olympic Sport.

 

Why does it have to be a competition' date=' this guy is better than that guy?

I always liked playing music, and hated the whole "[i']I can piss higher than you[/i]" element.

Seems like nobody just "enjoys" the music, they have to compare and contrast all the time.

 

Sigh.....

.

I agree with you 100%.

Though ever since man has been cursed with the human mind...competition has and will always exsit.

[Lowdown]

To administer a little dose of truth and reality' date=' that's my specialty.

 

:-$/

 

Are you old enough to remember rock n roll before Eddie Van Halen?

Did you see first-hand the effect his playing had on the world?

 

I am.

 

Saw Vai coming down the pike with all the other shredding/tapping posers.

He was one of the few that actually had the talent to stay in the business without hype and bullsh!t.

 

I'd like to think I'm objective, being an eyewitness and all...

 

To call Vai a copycat isn't fair to him either, he is indeed a talented player.

And he was playing killer guitar when EVH had gone to the Dark Side of keyboards and synths.

 

Your truth and reality are subjective like anything else here mate. Not a specialty-a given.

 

I am old enough to not just remember,but know. But that means squat if you don't know who came before(let alone after).

 

I have seen the effect his style/music has had...show me anyone here who hasn't!? Was hooked from the time I heard You Really Got Me.

 

Now...do you remember Steve Hackett? Well take a listen to Dancing With The Moonlit Knight. Genesis-Selling England By The Pound(when Phil still had hair and wasn't torturing us with his music).

The pre-cursor to what EVH expanded on.

 

To lump Vai in with "the other posers" is akin to saying Son House was just walking down Johnson's road.

I seriously doubt and have NEVER heard anyone call Vai an EVH clone or copycat.Ever.

 

I won't get into the keyboard/synth debate...if you didn't get it,you won't.

 

All I'll add is to think about what you put out there of yourself Neo. There's a big difference between being objective and subjective mate.

[dem00n]

Lowdown your a smart guy but correcting neo isnt really smart!

[Hector Arcadius]

Thanks bro...

 

It should also be noted that Vai keeps a fan on stage with no purpose other than to blow his hair back and make him look "cool"

 

 

Good point. But then again' date=' he eagerly admits that he does so, so he is ok in my eyes...

 

 

Don't know. Eddie is absolutely great but.. perhaps he lost focus sometime in his career. To me, the the time that I guy stays on the top of things is perhaps even more important than how fast he made it to the top. I was not such a big fan of Steve but I looked more into his work recently and discovered some sides of it rather unknown. IMHO, Vai is simply ahead of his time. While Eddie was... his time / era.

 

Although head-to-head comparisons are unfair, between the 2 of them, I will go with Steve Vai.

[Hector Arcadius]

Thanks bro...

 

It should also be noted that Vai keeps a fan on stage with no purpose other than to blow his hair back and make him look "cool"

 

 

Good point. But then again' date=' he eagerly admits that he does so, so he is ok in my eyes...

 

 

Don't know. Eddie is absolutely great but.. perhaps he lost focus sometime in his career. To me, the time that I guy stays on the top of things is perhaps even more important than how fast he made it to the top. I was not such a big fan of Steve but I looked more into his work recently and discovered some sides of it rather unknown. IMHO, Vai is simply ahead of his time. While Eddie was... his time / era.

 

Although head-to-head comparisons are unfair, between the 2 of them, I will go with Steve Vai.

[Lowdown]

 

All he can do is blaze through the scales that Joe Satriani taught him' date=' drench his tone in effects and wear flamboyant clothes.

He hasn't [i']done[/i] anything, Eddie completely changed guitar. Steve just plays one.

 

If you can come up with a solo like Hot Dog & A Shake son and play it with as much conviction and soul as Vai does in one of your songs I'll eat my hat.

 

This is really rather pointless now ain't it?

 

A 17 year kid chosen by Frank to transcribe and be a permanent member of his band...have you even been exposed to anything he did with Zappa?

[Duende]

Firstly both are Vai and Van Halen are masters of what they do and great musicians.

Quite rightly so; they probably laugh hard at all the opinions and just think "yeah right, you all know so much yeah?"[biggrin]

 

Shaun, I enjoyed Vai's Skyscaper hugely- it is a superb album with some hugely flamboyant work! It wasn't until I heard Nuno Bettencourt some years later, that I remember thinking again "this is different!" and feeling knocked out. Fast forward a decade on and John 5 had me thinking the same thing.

 

As for the poser thing. Personally I find 99 percent of rock, blues and metal players, on the whole, embarrassing posers and the music so ridiculously over the top LOL that I don't find Spinal Tap funny- as it is too close to what is out there for real!

If we take being a poser out of most of the aforementioned styles there wont be much left!

 

When my wife and I saw him playing a couple of years back Vai made a wonderful tit of himself shouting out to the audience...

 

"I'm wankeerrr.....I'm a wanker"

 

I think the London accent fascinated his Yankie rose ears and he was replicating what he heard and found amusing. Unfortunately me and half the the other guy did too and a blanket of sniggers could be heard through the Hammersmith Apollo[biggrin]

 

Matt

[pippy]

It wasn't until I heard Nuno Bettencourt some years later' date=' that I remember thinking again "this is different!" and feeling knocked out.Matt[/quote']

 

+1.

 

Same for me.

 

After EVH there wasn't much new that caught my attention. I'd heard both Vai and Satriani and so on but it was Nuno Bettencourt's phrasing that made me really prick up my ears and listen. He's one of the guitarists who I find fascinating because he thinks in a way I find totally alien to my way of playing. I absolutely love his stuff; especially on 'Pornografitti'.

 

Give me a million notes a minute' date=' or one [i']good[/i] note.

I'll take the blues every time.

 

+100.

 

If I can be allowed to quote Les Paul himself from 2005;

 

"All you need is one note, but the trick is finding the right note....I've never forgotten hearing Count Basie one night. He was in a wheelchair and they pushed him up this ramp and got him seated at the piano. All of a sudden the band breaks and Count Basie's hand comes down, and he hits one note. Now, that was the most precious note I've ever heard and it laid me flat out!"

[Lowdown]

Firstly both are Vai and Van Halen are masters of what they do and great musicians.

Quite rightly so; they probably laugh hard at all the opinions and just think "yeah right' date=' you all know so much yeah?"[biggrin']

 

As for the poser thing. Personally I find 99 percent of rock, blues and metal players, on the whole, embarrassing posers and the music so ridi****usly over the top LOL that I don't find Spinal Tap funny- as it is too close to what is out there for real!

If we take being a poser out of most of the aforementioned styles there wont be much left!

 

When my wife and I saw him playing a couple of years back Vai made a wonderful tit of himself. he shouted out to the audience...

 

"I'm wankeerrr.....I'm a wanker"

 

 

100% right ye be Matt.

 

Vai is (to me) first and foremost a showman.Period.Even he say's so.If you've come up through Zappa's(yes he was a showman too kids-panty rap for god's sake!)then fast forward to Alcatrazz,Roth & Coverdale all guitar histrionics.

But he did it well.

 

Eddie-every bedroom guitarists dream. Just a sh*tty snot nosed kid who played guitar...better than most.

 

1 a showman. The other a guitarist.

 

I haven't and don't need to say who I would have voted for...

[NeoConMan]

Lowdown your a smart guy but correcting neo isnt really smart!

Thank you for your concern' date=' but I don't think he accomplished his objective - whatever it was....

 

 

 

Your truth and reality are subjective like anything else here mate. Not a specialty-a given.

I'm thinking you realize there's some tongue in cheek there, eh?

 

:D/

 

How old are you?

Stevejoshlay1 tells me he's old enough to remember when Van Halen turned the guitar world upside down

and he's only 32? Tells me he did see it - when he was born the same year?

 

That's like me saying I know all about how Hendrix did the same thing.

I was 2 years old when he had an even greater effect on rock guitar.

Yeah, I get it and I've studied it since I was 12 years old but it's not quite the same as being a beginning

musician in the Summer Of Love like some of my older friends were. They GET it because they were THERE.

 

 

 

Now...do you remember Steve Hackett? Well take a listen to Dancing With The Moonlit Knight. Genesis-Selling England By The Pound(when Phil still had hair and wasn't torturing us with his music).

Steve Howe' date=' Adrian Belew, Robert Fripp, so many others...

Prog Rock is lost on me.

I've sampled and sat through lotsa "high-minded" jazz-based, complicated and arcane guitar work in 30 years.

Some of it is technically dazzling (more so than the fretboard gymnastics of Vai and EVH) but leaves me cold.

The only Yes I cared for was the stuff with Trevor Rabin, at least a few of the songs actually [b']rocked[/b]!

 

I'm a meat & potato Blues guy, sorta like the guy wearing a t-shirt to the opera.

You can keep your Pavarotti too.

Not doubting its worth to some people, or the talent involved - I simply don't care.

 

 

 

To lump Vai in with "the other posers" is akin to saying Son House was just walking down Johnson's road.I seriously doubt and have NEVER heard anyone call Vai an EVH clone or copycat.Ever.

If you'll recall' date=' I added a little more to that statement.

If you're gonna use my words against me, get them in context and represent them as they are.

Saw Vai coming down the pike with all the other shredding/tapping posers.

He was one of the few that actually had the talent to stay in the business without hype and bullsh!t.

 

By 1986 (Vai was on DLR's Eat 'Em And Smile) everybody was the next great guitar wizard.

The more you could throw your guitar around, the more pointy the shape, the more flamboyant the colors like

pink, puke green, baby blue you wore or painted your guitar, the more spandex/scarfs you wore, the more

peroxide and hairspray you used, the more notes you could cram into a second, the more "talented" you were.

 

Vai survived all that because he had more talent than simply tapping and video-friendly stage moves.

I can recognize that even though I'm really not a fan of his.

 

 

 

I won't get into the keyboard/synth debate...if you didn't get it' date='you won't.[/quote']

I paid good money to watch a Guitar Hero (EVH) play keyboards?

Twice.

It won't happen again.

EVH never meant the world to me, though I do like alot of his music.

And the reason I liked his music is because of the guitar work.

If I want to hear cheesy keyboards, I'll listen to my 70 year old aunt play her goofy programmed Wurlitzer organ.

She really likes the Lawrence Welk stuff.

 

 

 

All I'll add is to think about what you put out there of yourself Neo.

Always do' date=' and will stand by my statements.

 

 

 

There's a big difference between being objective and subjective mate.

My closing tag line has been the same for years....

 

Disagree with me if you want, that's fine.

Now, tell me where I'm WRONG.

 

Be cool LD

 

[S t e v e]

peace and love to all!

[Lowdown]

Settle down sunshine[lol] ,I'm not here to tell you you're wrong.I'm just saying that it was puerile to make the statements you did w/out having any real prior knowledge of what you are commenting on.

Don't jump in and slag off muso's if you have no real prior knowledge of their work.

 

If you want to keep your intelligent facade up mate,fine. Who am I break down that wall.

 

Don't care if you were Vai's personal toe nail cutter...were you? Did you keep any clippings?

 

But seriously I'm being serious...I would love to hear some of your music and maybe we could do an online jam,huh?

What do ya reckon?