1972-74... A good year for Gibsons? (potential purchase)

[bullet22]

Hey

 

I'm looking at this guitar on eBay UK.

 

Bit of text from the seller:

 

This guitar has been dated between 1972 and 1974 and is one of a batch of Les Paul Deluxes fitted with full size humbuckers

 

So....... Should I run a mile? I'm asking for some more pictures which will include the headstock - but I wonder why the seller is struggling to date it excactly? Any thoughts..?

 

I'm not worried it's a fake - but what is the 'sandwich construction' he talks about?

 

Thanks guys

 

Ryan

[ksdaddy]

The sandwich construction refers to an era where the mahogany portion of the LP bodies was made up of two thinner pieces of mahogany with a maple filler strip. Some people don't like it, some (like me) don't see any negative effect. My '71 Deluxe is the best LP I have ever owned, hands down, no contest. But that is one out of thousands maybe.

 

[bullet22]

Ah.... Thanks. With better pictures from the seller I'd maybe have spotted that.

 

I don't see a negative either.

 

Any thoughts on the value..?

[ksdaddy]

Not a clue as to the value. I've had LPs for as little as a week but I've had this since '97 and it's not going anywhere..... so I haven't followed the market prices.

[pippy]

This guitar has been dated between 1972 and 1974 and is one of a batch of Les Paul Deluxes fitted with full size humbuckers

 

First of all I very much doubt the DeLuxe would have been fitted with full-sized p-ups originally. In his text he states that the p-ups are later-period items and I suspect that they would have replaced the normal mini-humbuckers at that time. It only takes a bit of neat and straightforward woodworking skill to enlarge the p-up cavities.

 

It is' date=' of course, [u']possible[/u] that Gibson at some point released an edition of the DeLuxe with full-size p-ups (there are examples with P-90s, for example), but I've never heard of such an instrument in the 34 years I've been reading about them. Why would they? By this time (1974) the full-humbucker-equipped Standard had already been re-issued.

 

Date-wise Gibsons records at the start of the seventies were poorly arranged/managed and there is a lot of confusion.

 

Value-wise it's worth what someone is willing to pay! A near pristine, all-original, DeLuxe can usually be had for around 2,000 Sterling. As that one is non-original it should be worth considerably less.

 

Some people, however, will pay over the odds just because it's perceived as being a 'Vintage' instrument and that it must, by the nature of things, be worth more.

[freak show]

The sandwich construction refers to an era where the mahogany portion of the LP bodies was made up of two thinner pieces of mahogany with a maple filler strip. Some people don't like it' date=' some (like me) don't see any negative effect. My '71 Deluxe is the best LP I have ever owned, hands down, no contest. But that is one out of thousands maybe.[/quote']

 

Yup, my Les Paul is also supposedly from the "Dark Ages" of Gibson (1983), and I find it to be excellent. Gibson made good and bad guitars throughout its entire history. Nobody's perfect.

 

According to the "Les Paul Book" from Day and Bacon, reasons why the Les Pauls from the early 70's are criticized are:

 

1) Gibson was using very dense, heavy mahogany at that point.

 

2) As the sandwiched pieces of wood aged, they sometimes shrunk to varying degrees, so that the joints between the layers were noticeable.

 

The only way to really know if this guitar is right for you is to try it out.

[bullet22]

A near pristine' date=' all-original, DeLuxe can usually be had for around 2,000 Sterling. As that one is non-original it should be worth considerably less.

[/quote']

 

Hmmmm..... That's interesting because the first thing I'd do would be to change out all those worn parts for modern replacements. I'd keep the 'original' bits for re-sale, of course!

 

I deffo think it's one to inspect before bididng etc..... I've probably got some more thinking to do !

 

Many thanks for your very helpful reply!

[L5Larry]

Just to cloud up this discussion a little further, the first 70's Standard "reissues" had "Les Paul Deluxe" serial number decals. Gibson did not have any "Standard" SN decals when they started making Standards again, so they just put "Deluxe" decals on the back of the headstock.

 

The ONLY difference between a Deluxe and a Standard is the pickups (and truss rod cover), and it is possible that this guitar is one of the early "transition" models.

 

 

[jchabalk]

that 3 piece top was another 70's/80's quirk was it not? my date ranges are a little loose but i believe outside of that period (both before and after) it was and is 2 piece tops.

[pippy]

The ONLY difference between a Deluxe and a Standard is the pickups (and truss rod cover)' date=' and it is possible that this guitar is one of the early "transition" models.[/quote']

 

That's a possibility.

 

Am I correct in thinking your early Standard has 'Standard' scripted on the TRC?

 

The guitar on sale has a blank TRC which is, therefore, possibly non-original (of course if it's just a (re-worked) DeLuxe it would have had that on the cover..).

[ksdaddy]

Mine's a gold top so I can't say if it's one piece. With the amount of finish checking on mine I would think a seam would show up at some point. This thing is seriously checked....seriously. The pics do not show how badly it's checked. Well, maybe the second pic down. The checking on the back of the neck is what the whole guitar looks like in person.

 

http://www.angelfire.com/me4/ksdaddy/lp.html

 

I can attest to the weight, but in the dozen or more LPs I've had, I don't ever recall a light one!

 

I've truly lost track of the LPs I've had... to the best of my recollection:

 

1955 gold top Std

1969 Personal

1969 Personal (another one)

1970 Deluxe cherry sb with 3 full sized humbuckers (rape victim)

1971 gold top (current)

1974 tobacco sb Deluxe

1979 Std (refinished/rebuilt)

1980 wine red Std

1982 silverburst Custom

1989 cherry sb Std

 

That's all I can recall, there may have been more. As you can see, they're all over the place, age-wise. The two that jump out at me as being the best are the current '71 and the road-dog '70 Deluxe. Both old beat up hags that begged to be played. The 1980 wine red Std would be next in line.

 

So don't fear Norlin, they did make some stellar guitars, even if it was by accident.

[L5Larry]

Yes, the three piece top was another Norlin era "improvement". There was also few to none figured tops during that period. The center strip on my '75 isn't even centered down the guitar, close, but easily visually distinguishable as off center. The three pieces of the top were almost non-distinguishable when the guitar was new. Over the last 35 years the pieces have aged differently are are now very noticable.

 

The only ID of a "Standard" affixed to the guitar was that word engraved on the truss rod cover starting in the 70's. The formal designation of the "Standard " only came about at the time of the 70's reissues, the originals were not officially called Standards, they were just a "Les Paul". They became known as "the standard model", as opposed to the Custom, Junior, Deluxe, Special, etc, which were always formal designations.

[pippy]

Apparently what we call the 52-60 Standards were always referred to in the workshop as Les Paul "Regular"s.

[CajunBlues]

I once owned a 72 Gold Top Deluxe... With buckers (routed out)... It had a great tone and playability and was beautiful to look at... My first guitar was a 73 les paul Custom... Another outstanding guitar...

 

But for some reason nothing beats the tone I get out of my 1999 Les Paul Custom...

 

Really though... We are splitting hairs... In my opinion there has never been a "bad" year for a Gibson Les Paul... If anyting the vintage look with the checking will make an excellent conversation piece...

[bullet22]

Well, at £1,200 it didn't sell. Maybe it was a little steep..?

[Sgt Pepper]

When my 1972 LP Deluxe Gold Top was stolen, my insurance company valued it at $3000.

[retrosurfer1959]

My 72 weighs in at 12 pounds sounds it sounds good but the frets totally suck!

[KL]

A lot of the Les Paul Deluxe guitars were made with bodies routed for standard humbuckers. My 1970's goldtop deluxe (can't remember the year) was routed for minihumbuckers, but I have seen many that were factory routed for standard humbuckers. These Les Paul deluxes have enlarged plastic pick up rings to blank off the extra space, which I don't think look as nice as the normal ones where the routing was just the right size for minihumbuckers. So it would not surprise me if they did fit some deluxe bodies with standard humbuckers and, of course, those deluxe's with minihumbuckers that had the standard size routing were easily modified to accommodate standard pickups later. So it may be factory, or it may not. The attraction of Les Paul Deluxe for me is the minihumbuckers which sound great.

[ksdaddy]

The Deluxes with the extra ring were the result of some tooling problems. They bunged up a bunch of them when they routed for the minis and used the rings to hide the blemishes. They were known at Kalamazoo as "goof hiders".

[KL]

That's interesting.