Variations in sound quality in identical Les Pauls?

[WayneS]

We read, from time to time, that there will be big variations in Les Pauls of the same model, say, a no-frills standard or studio.

 

With acoustic guitars, I'd buy that. With solid body (or nearly solid body) electrics, all produced to the same specs, it seems very doubtful unless quality control needs attention. I'm inclined to think that those big variations generally just aren't there, but I don't have wide experience with these guitars. So let me change the question a bit:

 

Have there been times in production of LPs where sound quality varied pretty significantly from instrument to instrument, with the instruments having the same specs? (I might look for something like that, for instance, in the year or two after Gibson moved its production facility from Kalamazoo to Nashville, or when big changes were made to complex electronic installations, finishes, neck attachment technologies, or some such.)

 

The answer would likely influence my thoughts about what used guitars I would be interested in buying.

[Tim Plains]

Have there been times in production of LPs where sound quality varied pretty significantly from instrument to instrument

It's the other way around. When have there not been times in production...

Wood is wood and wood varies. That's just nature.

If you can't hear the difference, than any ole Les Paul will do.

[BigKahune]

It's the other way around. When have there not been times in production...

Wood is wood and wood varies. That's just nature.

If you can't hear the difference' date=' than any ole Les Paul will do.[/quote']

 

+1

 

Each guitar must be evaluated on it's own merits - due to the variance between specimens. The variance can be based in build quality, playability or sound, or all three. Test drive potential purchases - get your eyes, hands and ears on them. There's both gems and clunkers in every model, as well as in every time period.

[ant7629]

When buying a new guitar at a store, I always try and make sure they have several models in stock so I can chose the best sounding/playing one.

 

I bought a Traditional a few months back and they lined up 5 models in heritage cherry for me to try. They ALL sounded different. Some more than others, but it's uncanny when you actually hear it. I chose mine because it was quite warm sounding, but still had that "bite" with it too.

 

This was the case the other week when I was buying a new Strat. Actually, I ended up walking out of the store with a Mexican made one as it played and sounded better than the USA models I tried...including a custom shop!!!!

[sellen]

often they come with difference set- up - pickup hights , string higts , angle between brigde and stop-bar. That has a lot to say how they sound. And in the store if you play one it might have old string, the next one has new.

[Lowdown]

This was the case the other week when I was buying a new Strat. Actually' date=' I ended up walking out of the store with a Mexican made one as it played and sounded better than the USA models I tried...including a custom shop!!!!

 

You are aware that they're loaded with ceramic pups aren't you? If not,congratulations. I also have found the ceramics to be great pups...until you know what they are.

Love 'em,loathe 'em. They are what they are. It's all subjective...

[deepblue]

I find if the guitar sounds good unplugged then it will sound even better when you use your amp.

[Lowdown]

I find if the guitar sounds good unplugged then it will sound even better when you use your amp.

 

True words these be.

[ant7629]

You are aware that they're loaded with ceramic pups aren't you? If not' date='congratulations. I also have found the ceramics to be great pups...until you know what they are.[lol']

Love 'em,loathe 'em. They are what they are. It's all subjective...

 

This one came loaded with the Custom ‘69 Single-Coil pups as its one of the classic 60's reissues, however the stock ceramic ones do sound pretty darn good.

[WayneS]

A serious "Thank you" to all who responded-- lots to think about here.

 

Maybe I can continue the question with a few remarks about woods. Please understand that I know I have a good deal to learn about solid bodies (guitars, that is), and I am trying to learn it.

 

If you were setting out to create a new solid body guitar from scratch, and could select any woods, and RESONANCE was your goal, you would not choose flame maple, or any slab-cut wood, for the top, and would very probably not select a porous, interlocking-grain wood, like mahogany, for the body.

 

(Might be revealing a lot of naivete with this one.) One of the historic arguments in favor of solid bodies is that, unlike hollow bodies, chambered guitars, etc., they do not resonate in the ways that the others do, the pickups exert a more pure tone, free from the, um, corruption of unwanted harmonics. If so, then resonance should not be your goal.

 

It's not at all that I think that wood is unimportant-- there has to be a reason for the choice between all-mahogany vs. mahogany-and-maple guitars, and it's the tone of the guitars-- but my limited experience has made me suspect that setup and, especially, string selection, make massive differences in the sound of the guitar. Maybe bigger differences than quality of wood.

[WayneS]

The reason, by the way, that I am pursuing this question of variation in models with the same specs is that it is very difficult, where I live, to do any "comparison shopping," or sampling, of used Studio models.... I fear I am going to end up going the EBay route, am not very happy about that, and am trying to test out the idea that perhaps it is not as dangerous to the buyer as I fear it is.

[rocketman]

Can you hear the difference between these two Les Pauls?

 

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

[Blackie]

The reason' date=' by the way, that I am pursuing this question of variation in models with the same specs is that it is very difficult, where I live, to do any "comparison shopping," or sampling, of used Studio models.... I fear I am going to end up going the EBay route, am not very happy about that, and am trying to test out the idea that perhaps it is not as dangerous to the buyer as I fear it is.[/quote']

 

I bought a 99 SG Standard off ebay and had no worries as to the initial quality of the guitar. The quality level at production in my opinion is high enough that with basic adjustments I could dial the guitar in the way I would like it.

And that proved true.....of course any abuse of the instrument is a factor when dealing used.

[WayneS]

Thanks much, Blackie and Rocketman--

 

Rocketman, it was good of you to post that comparison on YouTube. I listened to it twice, and have to admit that my 65 year old ears could only hear maybe a small difference on the third comparison riff. Now you've got me very curious: Can people with better ears hear a pronounced difference? The guitars are not quite identical, of course; the grade of wood used in the top on the Premium Plus is different. (They're both beautiful LPs, especially the Premium Plus.)

 

But although I could maybe hear a difference, I doubt that the sound would influence my choice between the two guitars. Maybe if I played each for a half hour or so I'd make a different report.

 

Thanks again for that comparison.

[Lowdown]

Can you hear the difference between these two Les Pauls?

 

[YOUTUBE]

[/YOUTUBE]

 

 

 

First one sounded more "open". I hate to say the word but..."warm".

 

Have no idea though what guitar was what?

[sellen]

Number two in each example is a chambered 08, remember it from another thread (if i remember right). In the first example guitar 2 i think you can hear the chambered one give it some more air on the high notes.

[lpdeluxe]

I think patience will prove a better friend than any survey of opinions. Over the years I've picked up quite a few LPs and never found one I cared for until I got my hands on a '70 Deluxe gold top that belonged to a friend. Twelve years later, he agreed to sell it to me (I kept it another 13, and sold it only after I found my perfect blonde 335).

 

Two Les Pauls with consecutive serial numbers will be different. If all you want is **a** Les Paul, you're fine: go buy one. If you want **the** Les Paul (and one is out there) you'll have to wait and exploit every opportunity to play those you find available. As already noted, the acoustic sound of an electric is an excellent way to find a good sounding one. I say this, having wasted some few dollars on pickup changes to guitars that didn't have it acoustically, and never had it electronically.

[VBB]

I can definately hear the difference. The first one in each comparison, is my favorite. The notes sound more crystal clear, but the real difference is in the chording where the second one sounds a little muddy. Not bad, just a different sound and not as pleasant to my soul.

[bubba_leon]

I bought a Traditional a few months back and they lined up 5 models in heritage cherry for me to try. They ALL sounded different. Some more than others' date=' but it's uncanny when you actually hear it. I chose mine because it was quite warm sounding, but still had that "bite" with it too.

[/quote']

 

Did you ever get the Traditional Pro?

[Les Paul Fanatic]

Absolutely, there's going to be variations in sound quality, the grain pattern's going to be different,yes the set up may be the same leaving the factory, but the sound will be slightly different.

[pippy]

Every LP will have it's own 'signature'.

 

A while back I was fortunate enough to be able to evaluate (and re-evaluate) just under two dozen re-issues over a four week period. While there were, obviously, very similar characteristics, there was also a clear difference in tone between a large number of those seemingly identical instruments. Many sounded 'dead'; some OK - but there was just one which was much better (to my ears) than all the others.

 

Why should this be? My best guess would be just the individual lumps of wood somehow 'matched-up' with each other to create a 'better-sounding' instrument.

 

Many others in this forum have had an identical experience.

 

I find if the guitar sounds good unplugged then it will sound even better when you use your amp.

 

That is the best advice I could offer. Before I bought mine I played it un-plugged for 3/4 of an hour just listening to the tone inherent in the instrument.

 

There is much debate about how important is the unplugged sound. From my experience I found that, by the end of my 'searching' time I could predict with absolute certainty how the guitar would sound once plugged in if I had spent, say, five minutes listening to it unplugged. As has been said before; "What's not there in the first place can't be amplified".

 

The aspect which seems to have most influence in how a particular guitar will sound seems, to me at any rate, to be the neck. How the neck reacts and resonates when the strings are plucked seems to be crucial. Some necks are alive and expand the tone whilst others seem to deaden it.

 

As far as the tone of the main body of the instrument is concerned;

 

"...a carved maple top bonded to a mahogany base; a sandwich that united the darker tonality of mahogany with the brighter sonic 'edge' of maple."

[GibsonAlmighty]

We read' date=' from time to time, that there will be big variations in Les Pauls of the same model, say, a no-frills standard or studio.

 

With acoustic guitars, I'd buy that. With solid body (or nearly solid body) electrics, all produced to the same specs, it seems very doubtful unless quality control needs attention. I'm inclined to think that those big variations generally just aren't there, but I don't have wide experience with these guitars. So let me change the question a bit:

 

Have there been times in production of LPs where sound quality varied pretty significantly from instrument to instrument, with the instruments having the same specs? (I might look for something like that, for instance, in the year or two after Gibson moved its production facility from Kalamazoo to Nashville, or when big changes were made to complex electronic installations, finishes, neck attachment technologies, or some such.)

 

The answer would likely influence my thoughts about what used guitars I would be interested in buying. [/quote']

 

There's no two identical Les Paul (sound wise).

A very slight variations will yields different results.

Just sayin.

[5965]

How alike any two guitars sound depends on a lot of things, including your ears and experience. You may not even notice qualities or quirks until after you've had the guitar for some time. To be sure, strings and setups can alter the sound, but, even in a solid body, so can various pieces of wood, finishes, and minor dimension changes. Even individual pickups of the same model will sound different. And I'm talking about identical models, guitars and parts coming off the line back to back.

 

Some signal chains, pedals, and/or settings can, intentionally or inadvertently, eliminate some critical differences, usually through loss or flattening of the signal.

 

That said, I've never played two guitars of any kind, electric or acoustic, that either sounded or felt exactly alike. Of course, to some extent, that's what tone controls and adjustment screws are for. But if you follow pro music, you'll notice that companies try hard to recreate specific guitars when their endorsing stars wear out a favorite piece, and I've yet to hear a player say a custom-made replacement was identical. More frequently, the guitarists don't even like them.

 

Good luck, and be sure to deal with reputable stores with reasonable trial periods. Otherwise, if you're at all picky, take a trip and take some of your gear along so you have a baseline. The variation doesn't stop with guitars.

[WayneS]

take a trip and take some of your gear along so you have a baseline.

 

Now there's a cool idea.

 

Thanks to all.

[rocketman]

Number two in each example is a chambered 08' date=' remember it from another thread (if i remember right). In the first example guitar 2 i think you can hear the chambered one give it some more air on the high notes. [/quote']

 

Yep that's it. When I first put this up there was a good number of people who noticed the same thing. Note that the Premium Plus does not use any real special wood outside of the guaranteed AAA flame. The first one is weight relieved and the second one is chambered in each lick. The pups are identical and I took care to make sure both were set identically, in terms of strings, pickup height, etc. I can now play each one blindfolded and guess correctly 100% of the time which one I'm playing. So, yes two "identical" guitars can sound different.