Need help selecting an new Gibson electric guitar

[BeaMeUpScty]

Hello friends, my apologies if I am repeating a question that I am sure many other people have had. I have searched these archives looking for an answer to my question and can't find what I'm looking for.

 

Here's my situation: I bought my son the Melody Maker guitar, which he has had for a little over a year. He has been taking lessons and has made tremendous progress. We bought the guitar used from someone who never played it or used it at all (they won it on a radio contest), and left it stored with the strings tight. Well, the neck is cracked at the top below where the strings tighten and it won't hold tune. I'd like to buy him a new guitar, but I am dizzied by the number of models out there.

 

His teacher has an SG Standard, and my son really likes that guitar. But even with that specific amount of information, I go to a website and see that I can buy an SG Standard, an SG Standard with Coil-Splitting, an SG Standard Historic Reissue, an SG Standard with Maestro VOS, a Custom SG Standard Reissue VOS, and the list seems to go on. Then, looking at the Gibson website, it appears as though the heirarcy of quality, the Les Paul is a step up from the SG series. However, the Les Paul Studio is listed at a lower price than many of the SG Standards.

 

So, which is a better guitar? I want to buy him something that will keep him fully satisfied for the next five or six years (or perhaps forever). I would like to buy a nice quality guitar. Preferably, I'd like to stay in the $1,000 to $1,500 range, but if I get a much better guitar if I jump to the $2,000 range, then that would make more sense. I don't mind buying used, however, it seems that every used guitar I see on line are only 10 to 15% cheaper than buying on brand new (and sometimes they are asking more than new ones). In addition, the list of variation of models grow exponentially, making it impossible to compare the used guitar to the new models.

 

Sorry for the long post, but any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated from this confused father ;).

[swleary]

I would love to say this is better than that and so on, however if your son loves an SG than maybe go with that. If it has gibson on the headstock then you can't go wrong (hopefully hehe)...It is his ears and hands that have to seek out the guitar.

 

Now IMO, an historic is always the way to go and you can get a really good one used...Before buying it though, get as many pictures of it as possible ,including serial number and post them here.Forums members can help to make sure it's not a fake...Also call Gibson Customer service to verify the serial number matches the guitar.

 

If you do go with an SG, post pictures in the SG section of this forum...those guys know there stuff as I'm no expert when it comes to SG's or Les Paul's for the matter.

 

Hope that helps

 

PS- Avoid Guitar Center..not a good retailer to deal with so I've heard

[Gator Slim]

The Gibson catalog can be overwhelming. I wouldn't spend a lot of effort sweating "which one is better". Ultimately what matters is what feels good and sounds good to the person that is going to be playing the thing.

 

If you can:

Take him to a guitar shop. Preferably one with an amp room. Somewhere where they can set him up in a spot by himself with an amp or two.

 

Bring him every electric they have, within your budget, one at a time. Let him try them, take his time. When he plays the one he wants, he'll know.

 

I've done this a few times now with friends and family, and it has worked very well. I'm a strong believer in letting the musician pick the instrument. There has to be something of a bond there, or it won't get played. Some of the choices have actually been pretty surprising and interesting.

[BeaMeUpScty]

I think he is just comparing his Melody Maker to the only other guitar he has seen, which is his instructor's. If he can at least get the quality he sees in his instructor's, he would be happy. But even with the SG standard, there appears to be many options. I don't need lots of bells an whistles, but would like to get a good foundation, with quality components.

[swleary]

The Gibson catalog can be overwhelming. I wouldn't spend a lot of effort sweating "which one is better". Ultimately what matters is what feels good and sounds good to the person that is going to be playing the thing.

 

If you can:

Take him to a guitar shop. Preferably one with an amp room. Somewhere where they can set him up in a spot by himself with an amp or two.

 

Bring him every electric they have' date=' within your budget, one at a time. Let him try them, take his time. When he plays the one he wants, he'll know.

 

I've done this a few times now with friends and family, and it has worked very well. I'm a strong believer in letting the musician pick the instrument. There has to be something of a bond there, or it won't get played. Some of the choices have actually been pretty surprising and interesting.[/quote']

 

 

Wow I'm a firm believer in THE GUITAR FINDS THE MUSICIAN !!! hehe

[BeaMeUpScty]

Hi Gator, thanks for the information. I guess that would work, but it seems that the pricing at the music store is usually right around MSRP, where if I go out to a place like Musician's Friend website and can get them for 20 to 30% less. I would not seem right to have the store do all the work and then go buy it on line.

[swleary]

Where are you located?

[BeaMeUpScty]

In Utah, near Park City

[swleary]

um ok why are your guitar store's prices near MSRP? . Easy answer is to show them how much a Gibson goes for on MF or whatever....maybe they'll come down in price .....but be prepared to walk...

 

Every Gibson plays different. Just because they are the same model , does not mean they are the same guitar. Hand sanded necks and bodies so even though they are the same model...doesn't mean they are the same guitar.

[swleary]

um ok why are your guitar store's prices near MSRP? . Easy answer is to show them how much a Gibson goes for on MF or whatever....maybe they'll come down in price .....but be prepared to walk...

 

Every Gibson plays different. Just because they are the same model , does not mean they are the same guitar. Hand sanded necks and bodies so even though they are the same model...doesn't mean they are the same guitar.

[pippy]

Hi and welcome to the form.

 

Don't apologise for a long post; the more info we have the better the advice we can offer.

 

Both the SG and Les Paul range are very fine instruments.

 

There are a few differences which might steer you one way or the other.

 

How old is your son? The Les Paul is, in general, a couple of pounds heavier than the SG and if he's still quite young then this may be important. There are quite a number of folk here with bad backs and an LP Custom isn't the best thing to strap on for an hour or two!

 

Upper-fret access (i.e. those frets nearest the neck/body joint) on the SG is better which makes some styles of playing easier.

 

The entry level guitars in both ranges are, essentially, the same as the Historic Re-issues. These latter tend to be more attractive to those searching for instruments made as they were back in the '50s and '60s. Having said that the re-issues should be built with finer attention to detail as they are even more 'hand-made' than the regular instruments.

 

As has been said; take him along to a dealership and let him find out what suits him best. It is normally fairly obvious within minutes which guitar will be the better choice.

 

Once he knows which of the two ranges he prefers then you can look at the individual models within each group.

 

If re-sale value may be important; for instance if he prefers a lighter instrument at the moment but may prefer a heavier one when he gets older, a re-issue will normally hold more of it's original value come up-date time.

 

Best wishes and please ask if there's anything more you would like to know.

[BeaMeUpScty]

Good point. If I can show them what I can buy it for elsewhere, I can negotiate. I would of course expect to pay a little higher because they have an actual person spending time with me. But that would be money well spend for advice and information.

 

So, am I right in my assumption that the Les Paul has higher quality components than the SG? I read about some models that have compartments or something in the base instead of solid wood. Are these things I should be looking for. What about the humbuckler and hardware?

[swleary]

Oh geez now you've opened up a whole new door...hehe

 

Chambering and weight relief .two very different things.....

 

Chambering is hollowing out the inside of the body for acoustic and weight purposes...

 

Weight relief is 9 holes drilled out in the body to take some weight off...

 

ok so here are the specs off of an SG Standard and a Les Paul Standard..just for comparison

 

LES PAUL STANDARD:

 

Body

Body Style Les Paul Standard carved top

Top Species AA Maple Maple Top and Mahogany Back (premium finish), Maple Top and Mahogany Back (Solid Finish)

Binding Antique Cream

Hardware

Plating Finish Chrome

Tailpiece Tone Pros Locking Stop Bar

Bridge Tone Pros Locking Tune-O-Matic Style

Tuners Locking Grover Keystone

Electronics

Neck Pickup Burstbucker Pro

Bridge Pickup Burstbucker Pro

Pickup Covers Yes

Controls 2 Volume - 2 Tone - 3-Way Toggle

Control Knobs Amber Top Hats

Control Pocket Cover Smoky Transparent Arcylic

Special Features Quick-Connect Control Pocket Assembly, Locking Neutrik Jack

Neck

Species Mahogany

Profile Asymmetrical

Nut Corian

Nut Width Standard Gibson: 1.695" +/- .050"

Headstock Inlay Gibson Logo

Silkscreen Les Paul Model

Truss Rod Gibson Adjustable Truss Rod

Truss Rod Cover Bell-shaped cover stamped, "Standard"

Fingerboard

Fingerboard Species Rosewood

Inlays Figured Acrylic Trapezoid

Fingerboard Binding Antique Cream

Number of Frets 22

Scale Length 24 - 3/4"

Plek Setup Yes

 

SG STANDARD:

 

Body

Body Style SG

Body Species Mahogany

Hardware

Plating Finish Chrome

Tailpiece Gibson Stop Bar

Bridge Gibson Tune-O-Matic

Tuners Grover Kluson Style Green Keys

Electronics

Neck Pickup 490R

Bridge Pickup 498T

Pickup Covers Yes

Controls 2 Volume - 2 Tone - 3-Way Toggle

Control Knobs Black Tophats with Silver Inserts

Control Pocket Cover Black Molded

Special Features Quick-Connect Control Pocket Assembly

Neck

Species Mahogany

Nut Corian

Nut Width Standard Gibson: 1.695" +/- .050"

Headstock Inlay Mother of Pearl Gibson Logo + Holly

Truss Rod Gibson Adjustable Truss Rod

Truss Rod Cover Bell-shaped cover, stamped "SG"

Fingerboard

Fingerboard Species Rosewood

Inlays Figured Acrylic Trapezoid

Fingerboard Binding Antique Cream

Number of Frets 22

Scale Length 24 - 3/4"

[swleary]

PS- I wish they had some compartments in them...that'd be a good place to put your stuff hehe

[pippy]

So' date=' am I right in my assumption that the Les Paul has higher quality components than the SG? I read about some models that have compartments or something in the base instead of solid wood. Are these things I should be looking for. What about the humbuckler and hardware?[/quote']

 

In essence the hardware is near enough identical not to be an issue.

 

The Les Paul is built with different timbers - usually 2" thick slab of mahogany and a carved and dished 1/2" maple 'cap' body - whereas the SG is a thinner piece of solid mahogany.

 

To put things very simply; Some of the LP models are solid (the re-issues), some are 'weight relieved' (9 small holes drilled from the wood) and some are 'chambered' (large part of the mahogany removed). Both these last two types are to make the guitars more comfortable to play as the large majority of mahogany available would make all-solid bodies too heavy. Don't panic, but this topic could take days to exhaust!

 

Originally the SG was the replacement for the LP at the end of 1960. It originally had exactly the same hardware as the previous year's Les Paul.

 

As stated in earlier posts; let him try some and see what he prefers.

[Gator Slim]

Seriously - feels good, sounds good, plays good: sold. Don't sweat the small stuff.

 

I've been through this with lots of people. Not once has the person walked out with what they thought they wanted when they walked in.

 

Funniest time was when I once went in with a friend who was convinced he wanted a telecaster. He left 2 hours later with an Explorer.

[swleary]

I'll go with pippy on this one too

 

Let him try them out and go from there....Pippy knows his stuff and has good advice...

 

Like I said before..the guitar finds the musician...

[pippy]

I've been through this with lots of people. Not once has the person walked out with what they thought they wanted when they walked in.

 

+1!

 

So true.

 

As I said on another thread earlier; a couple of weeks ago I walked in to a store to buy a Strat. Walked out with a Les Paul, and it's not like I don't know the difference!

 

Get your son to try all he can find!

[CaptainNemo68]

Funniest time was when I once went in with a friend who was convinced he wanted a telecaster. He left 2 hours later with an Explorer.

 

Wow, talk about "from one end of the spectrum to the other".

 

That just goes to show how trying out different guitars can be a major difference in what you decide to get.

[rcscruff]

Seriously - feels good' date=' sounds good, plays good: sold. Don't sweat the small stuff.[/quote']

 

I would agree that you are letting yourself get overwhelmed with the little details. In general if it says "Made in the USA" on the headstock you are getting a good quality instrument, which qualifies for not only Gibson, but also Fender, or PRS.

 

I also agree that the guitar and the guitarist need to find each other. If I really really wanted an SG and came home with a LP that was twice the cost, I wouldn't necessarily be twice as happy. I would constantly have that SG calling me to come back and take it home too. (which can lead to a common and incurable problem called "G.A.S.")

 

And comparing any of Gibson's guitars based on price point is a tricky issue. If you exclude the more cost considerate Studio, Special, and Junior models (which are still nice guitars) -- prices are more based upon rarity, fancy finishes, and collectibility. Most models are already top-of-the-line in playbility, construction, and sound quality. And the little upgrades like locking tuners or stopbar are cheap and easy swaps which can be done for around $100

 

SG vs Les Paul? Its apples and oranges. I love both, but your son may not. The Les Paul cost more because it cost more to construct not becuase it is a superior model. The LP is chambered becuase it weighs a ton to begin with where the SG is already thin and light.

 

I could go on and on.....so last quick question, that may help us guide you, what is your son's preferred style of music? Metal, Rock, Pop, Blues, Jazz, Classic Rock, Funk, Folk, etc?

[BeaMeUpScty]

Well, that is a good question. Not to sound like a cop-out, but I'm not sure he has exactly zero'd in yet. He learned "Stairway to heaven" as part of his lesson and loves it. But, his instructor now has him working on some Jazz stuff, which he really likes too. He is just so stoked up about learning and making such good progress that he is loving everything his teacher gives him. It would probably help to tell you that he is only 12 years old.

[BeaMeUpScty]

Sorry for the random thoughts here, but another reason I am trying to figure this out is that I occationally find what seems to be a pretty good used deal on one of the models, so I need to know if I should only search for one model or the other. But if either are just as good as the other, then maybe jump on a killer deal on whichever comes up. For example, in my local area, someone is selling a Gibson Studio Less Paul for $1,000. That sounds pretty good, but I don't know what to compare that to. That is when I started looking at what they cost new to see if I should do that or buy new. Turns out, I can buy that same guitar new for $1,360 (which includes shipping). But it gets more confusing than that when I see other guitars that I can't even find a new one to compare to (like someone selling a 1977 version of a Les Paul that he said was worth more for some reason).

[rcscruff]

Well I asked the type of music thing, because if he was into Metallica or System of a Down he might prefer checking out ESP or an Ibanez 7string.

 

But if he is enjoying Zep and some jazz, Gibson is a pretty good choice. SG or Les Paul are still both good options.

 

One thing you may want to consider when you're talking about 2k on a guitar for a 12yo is that when he is 16 or 17 he may hit that rock band phase where he or his friends may not be treating a valuable guitar as well as they could. I know from experience:-$ .

 

I just saw your new post pop up...

A used LPStudio can usually be bought for around $800. I wouldn't worry about 1977s being worth more. Its more of a vintage collector thing and not so much a better instrument. If you see a killer deal you can just ask on this board and somebody will chime in if it's really worth it.

 

Since you seem to be fretting about this a bit. I throw you a few recommendations of models based on his age, music style and bang for the buck. (not in any particular order)

 

- Les Paul Studio

- SG Standard

- Les Paul Standard Traditional

 

 

Good Luck!

[BeaMeUpScty]

Thank you rscruff. Great advice. I think what I will do is have him play both the Les Paul and SG models next time he goes to his lesson to see if he has much of a preference and then look for a good deal on a used one. If he likes them both, then I guess it makes the search easier.

 

But I really appreciate your advice about posting the deal up on this site to ask people if it is a good deal or not. That is amazing that people would help with that. I actually find it mind-boggling that people like you and everyone else that have replied to my post have offered so much helpful and valuable information! I truely appreciate the very kind gesture.

[rcscruff]

I was just thinking and I came up with what may be a perfect solution for you.

Could you ask your son's guitar teacher if he could spend a (paid) session at the music store helping your son pick out an instrument?

 

The cost of the teacher's time may be well spent for an investment that should hopefully last a lifetime.

 

1) The teacher is a professional guitarist and wont be swayed by salesmen trying to complicate things and drive up prices with chambered bodies or robot technology. But he/she probably has at least some general knowledge of different brands and models and the quality and value associated with them.

 

2) The teacher knows your son and his playing better than us on this forum.

 

3) The teacher may have an established relationship with the music store, so you wont have to feel like any salespersons time is being wasted when you don't buy from them.

 

4) The teacher is probably a returning customer and has spent a fortune at that store already.

 

5) The teacher is a resource to a salesperson. He/she has an endless supply of potential new customers, no store will see that visit as a waste of time.

 

5) Your son will get to try lots of different guitars (not just Gibson) and will hopefully find "the one"

 

6) And with any luck you will aquire a specific make, model, year, and color. Then you can use that to do some serious comparison shopping.

 

Even though every guitar has its own feel and voice, I don't think a 12yo is going to pick up on the nuances between the individual instruments of a same model as much as he will for things like size, weight, shape, color.

 

And lastly I'm also new to these boards and have just been reading posts for a few weeks and I have seen people post about deals and received excellent advice on what to look out for or what a fair price is. But I would be cautious on letting everyone know where you found an unbelievable deal. Because, it may not still be there when you go back.