SJ200: Neck Reset?? Nope.......

[Buc McMaster]

As mentioned earlier, I took my SJ200WC to the mechanic yesterday for a neck reset. Upon inspecting the instrument, he told me he would rather not do a neck reset on this one. It was, he said, too fine a guitar to put it through that tortuous operation. The need for the reset was borderline at best and he wouldn't take the job. Hmmm. He did, however, detect a fingerboard hump where the neck meets the body, not an uncommon thing on flattops. He suggested a fretboard planing and a refret. The planing would be done on an angle sloping upwards from the nut toward the body, achieving the same end as a neck reset without the surgery. At the same time, this would eliminate the hump in the board. Okay.......I'm good with that. He will remove the walrus ivory nut and the elephant ivory saddle and install bone replacements for both. I have complete confidence in this man's work and sometime next week I'll have the results of his efforts in my hands once more.

 

What the heck..........it's only a guitar, afterall.

[Jack6849]

Buc,

 

Thanks for the update. Sounds like your luthier knows his stuff. Is the new repair about the same cost as a reset? Let us know how this fix works out for you.

 

Jack6849

[BigKahune]

Interesting solution proposal.

 

Can't wait to hear how it turns out.

[onewilyfool]

Ahhh....the 14th fret hump.......I see it all the time.......although sometimes it's a 12 fret hump.......

[bkharmony]

Good. I'll be honest with ya, I thought that neck reset sounded dubious.

[Xylophile]

Upon inspecting the instrument, he told me he would rather not do a neck reset on this one. It was, he said, too fine a guitar to put it through that tortuous operation.

 

 

Um............

 

 

 

 

X

[drathbun]

Yeah ok, but how much saddle do you have left and what is the break angle over it to the pins? If you're ok in that department, then a neck reset isn't necessary.

[Buc McMaster]

Yeah ok' date=' but how much saddle do you have left and what is the break angle over it to the pins? If you're ok in that department, then a neck reset isn't necessary.[/quote']

 

Not much saddle left, not enough for my liking. Break angle was good with the pin holes ramped, but I personally prefer a taller saddle than this guitar's neck set would allow. Planing the fretboard will have much the same effect as a neck reset, allowing for lower action with a taller saddle. Setup preference is a subjective thing, unique to each player. Part of what I like in a setup, all other factors aside, is a relatively tall saddle. Not for better break angle necessarily, but because that's how I like my guitar setup.

[Gibson101]

I don't know seems to me you can only plane the fretboard once and you can re-set the neck as many times as you want. Is this a case of six of one, 1/2 dozen of the other? Don't think so. I'd have to have a second opinion myself. Of course my knowledge of the 14th fret hump is limited.

 

 

GOOD LUCK!

[Xylophile]

The guitar either needs a neck reset or it doesn't. If it does, it shouldn't be a tortuous operation.

 

This is from your "off to the shop" thread:

 

A neck line sighting falls about an eighth inch below the top of the bridge

 

It should clear the bridge.

Add to that the typical Gibson flattop bridge (it's curved on a Martin for instance) vs. the 12" radius curved fretboard. This means that the outer strings will quickly lose break angle. Especially the high E. (Slanted saddle plus lower action for trebles.)

Also add the pearl between the saddle and the pins on an SJ-200PW. This means the pins are a long way from the saddle plus you wouldn't ramp through the pearl.

How could you get a reasonable break angle without monster action?

 

He did, however, detect a fingerboard hump where the neck meets the body, not an uncommon thing on flattops. He suggested a fretboard planing and a refret. The planing would be done on an angle sloping upwards from the nut toward the body, achieving the same end as a neck reset without the surgery. At the same time, this would eliminate the hump in the board.

 

Tapering of the fretboard is very "old school" at best and not recommended IMO. A hump at the body joint is a seperate problem and you'd sooner expect the opposite on a guitar with an underset neck. If it is there, it could be leveled, but any thinning of the board would increase the current problem. A straightedge on the frets would land even more below the top of the bridge. Yes, unless you taper or "slope upwards", but for an appreciable effect, the fretboard would get pretty thin at the nut. Bad surgery, if you ask me, and you won't end up with a guitar that is in a state it is meant to be in.

 

I'm not trying to be a wise guy here. Just trying to keep you from another disappointment. The first one being a newish guitar with an underset neck. Unfortunately that is not uncommon. And Gibsons are no exception, to put it mildly.

 

In the right hands a neck reset should not be problem to perform right and without leaving obvious evidence of the fact. That said, Gibsons are finished after the necks are attached, so for a neck reset the finish will have to be broken and repaired. 300 dollars for the whole procedure seems a little optimistic to me.

Still, I'd really think twice before proceeding with the planing job. And yes, do take the guitar to a reputable luthier/repairman for a second opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

X

[Stu2820]

I agree with X. I can understand the luthiers reluctance on such a high end guitar but anything other than a neck reset is a cop out.

 

I've seen lots of new Gibsons like this especially H'birds and 200's.

[torca]

I could not agree more with you X.The process of a proper AND clean fretboard plane is more adventurous than a good neck reset.This is because of the fret binding over the ends and the radius curve.I have come to the conclusion that a good neck set from the Gibson factory on a J-200 is crucial,especially with the four band MOP inlay on bridge.This design is beautiful,but it sets the bridge pins so far back, you need a very generous (almost overset) neck angle from the factory to compensate for this design. Especially as guitar tops settle over time, naturally encouraging saddle increase to compensate.I wish I could post pics of my J-200 VOS(I'll ask my kids)as the neck set verged on overset when I got it which I was perfectly hapy with.I have a ton of saddle,tremendous break angle over strings and room for the settling issue in the future.IMO knowing what I know now(ain't much),I think the two pearl moustache bridge is a more favourable design just because the pin placement isn't a mile away,killing break angle.I hope it works as proposed,it will I'm sure.But I think a neck re-set is coming to most all guitars over time,and a fret plane can't be reversed per se,as a good clean pro neck set.Best of times only for that beautiful guitar.

[Buc McMaster]

My original intent was to have the neck reset, the need for which was apparent to my eye. A neck line sighting that falls well below the top of the bridge is indicative of the need for a change if the guitar is to be at it's best. Yes, the saddle was quite short and the pin holes had been ramped.......ramped into the pearl ribbons as well. Pearl ribbons are not a sacred cow to me. If ramping is necessary the pearl is not off limits. The repairman's reluctance to do a neck reset is his call based on his evaluation of the instrument. His suggestion of planing the fretboard as an alternative remedy seems reasonable to me. Though not something I had considered, it should accomplish the same end and in no way, in my evaluation of the operation, effect a future neck reset if it becomes necessary. He called Friday to tell me he had nearly completed the planing and that it looks very good - the neck line sighting now falls above the bridge. If this were a rookie wanting to experiment with new techniques I might have had reason to pause, but this is not the case. He is a Martin/Gibson authorized repairman and has done this particular operation many times before with good success. If it is his considered opinion that a fretboard planing is the best option for my guitar, so be it.......get it done. I expect it will be a good solution. If not, okay, we'll try something else. It's not a big deal to me. My Gibson guitar is just that - a Gibson guitar. It is nothing more than a tool and/or a toy to me. I play it to the best of my ability and get satisfaction from that. If an "old school", non-traditional repair method is used to bring it to a state of better playability that's fine with me. Structural integrity, playability and tone. In that order, these are what matters to me in my guitar.

 

I will wait until I see the result before I pass judgement on the chosen method of repair.

[Xylophile]

Yes, the saddle was quite short and the pin holes had been ramped.......ramped into the pearl ribbons as well.

 

Looks like a clear case, authorized or not.

Anyway, I was just trying to help and I wish you the best.

Let us know how it turned out.

 

 

 

 

X

[jt]

Ugh. The dreaded fretboard plane instead of a neck reset. I didn't know that anyone did this anymore. Lots of bad aspects: reduces break angle over nut, thins and reduces stiffness of fretboard, changes profile/feel of neck in lower fret positions, tapered appearance to fretboard binding.

[Hall]

Buc,

 

As we all know neck resets take someone who knows how and is willing to take the time to do it right. I've had a square shouldered SJ Deluxe layin around here that Gibson recommended the area V Star repair service that totally blew it after keeping it for a month of Sundays. Long story. I keep thinking about asking ksdaddy, if he would like to get to know her and, in no hurry, see what he thinks about a repair. It's a 70ies era though, so I've been lazy on putting too much energy into pursuing it. What do you say, Scott? Up for a challenge?

 

Anyway, Buc. Whatever you do good luck and I hope you know & trust the tech. Darn, aint we all a bunch of help and confidence 'round here!

[Murph]

Darn' date=' aint we all a bunch of help and confidence 'round here![confused']

 

Yea, I'm thinking he needs more opinons.....