What a shame!!!

[guitarworld]

Hi forum,

 

My friend recently ordered a Les Paul traditional 2008, and when he received it he found to his dismay that the scratchplate had been fitted. He decided to remove it as he didn't like the look of the guitar with the scratchplate. He'd seen my Les Paul Standard 2008 without it, as my scratchplate was never fitted at the factory, but it was supplied in the case. He'd also decided not to buy the Standard 2008 due to a lot belly aching and negative comments he'd read on various review sites, about the Standard 2008. Worse than that, on removing the scratch plate, he was horrified to find that the guitar body/finish had been damaged by the nut on the bottom of the scratch plate fixing bracket. He returned the guitar at his own expense and on receiving a further three more replacements he found the same problem on every one!!! What is going on? He like me had waited 30 or so years to afford a Gibson Les Paul. This iconic guitar, so famed, so revered. When we can finally afford to do it, we end up purchasing an instrument which is firstly being made to look very inferior, due to ??purist?? Gibson owners negative comments and infighting, in the case of the Standard 2008 which IMHO is a superb guitar, despite it having a chambered body, easily rivalling top end PRS instruments in build quality, and experiencing ridiculous quality lapses, as in the case of my friends Traditional 2008. How is this helping the cause? Every review I read on a PRS is glowing, these guitars are THE best!!!! Whether this is true I don't really know, I haven't played a PRS, well not yet anyway.

 

I love my Standard 2008, criticise away, but please give this guitar a chance!

 

Anyone else want to comment? This should be debated, don't you agree?

[Tim Plains]

My Traditional is the same, big deal. It's not like it's a big scrape that's ruining or affecting the guitar. It's just a small indentation under the pickguard. If you play the guitar, you'll do more "damage" to it. If you want to debate something, let's discuss how anal Gibson owners are. To return a guitar over something like this is, sorry to say, stupid. They're not something you put behind glass and just look at them. Although, I guess that's how some people treat them.

 

PRS are great. They've replaced some of my Gibsons but they won't replace all of them. If you get a chance to play one with a solid rosewood neck, you should. They're awesome!!

[Riverside]

Does it have a burg in it?

[BigKahune]

Sorry to hear about your friend's situation. That problem is particularly nasty - hidden damage. If I had damage like that on an expensive instrument, I would return it - and I don't consider myself anal or stupid R9, and none of my guitars are behind glass. Occassionally I buy used, that kind of stuff is to be expected. But not for new, and certainly not at Gibson prices. On a new instrument, I'd rather make my own mojo dents and scratches.

 

There's always some QC complaints, but over the last few months quite a few nut problems have been brought to the forum. As Riverside mentioned, just today I saw a new one on me - an object rattling in either the chambers or routes of an LP ( http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=33708 ).

 

I've got some Gibby electrics, but also play Gibby acoustics, and IMHO, the Bozeman acoustic facility is doing a better QC job than the Nashville electric facility. I've got no idea why, but I wish someone at Gibson could get a handle on this.

[guitarworld]

Hi Bigkahune,

 

So do I, there is alot of negative feeling in this camp at the moment, don't you agree. I played my friends J45 today and had a good look over it, it is perfect, no flaws at all. I think you're right, someone needs to get this sorted!!

 

I grew up wanting to own a Gibson guitar, I don't want to see anything damage the reputation!! The people who buy these guitars are best placed to get a result here, rather than just accepting it. Gibson need to be made aware of all concerns.

[guitarworld]

Re : Post #3

Hi riverside, my friends £1699 guitar had a major F***ing ding in it, before he'd even played it!!

[Riverside]

Within limits, all of these are handmade and likely to have minor flaws.

 

But if was paying several thousands of dollars for the finish on a guitar, I'd expect it not to be scratched up.

[BigKahune]

... there is alot of negative feeling in this camp at the moment' date=' don't you agree. ...[/quote']

 

A lot . . . no.

 

Personally, over the years, I've purchased 5 new Gibby electrics and 3 used. All of them were fine. No complaints. Problems will show up on forums as people seek help. There's been a few issues lately for electrics - improperly dried fretboards, badly cut nuts, and the whole Dark Fire debacle. For the most part, I see Gibson handled/handles those issues under warranty, which keeps the customers happy. Unfortunately, on other forums, Gibson electric QC issues seem to crop up more than I'd like.

[guitarworld]

Hi Riverside,

 

Granted, handmade is the human side to the production process. This breeds individuality within each Guitar. This is very desirable. What is not so desirable is blatant sloppyness!! It is so obvious. And yes when you are paying £1699 GBP for a guitar, you expect a bit of consistency!

 

My Les Paul 2008 is superb. No dings, scratches only derogatory remarks from people who supposedly love GIBSON guitars, and DO NOT want a good future for the Gibson Guitar Company.

 

 

"All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.” Frank Zappa

 

Regards to you,

 

Guitarworld.

[jamman]

I have bought a few new Gibsons in the recent past. All Custom Shop. I will say, that there have been some minor finish problems, but nothing i would send the guitar back for. It is what it is. I did have 1 with a major defect on the finish and Gibson did the right thing. It was resolved to my liking. I think if you want to complain,and that's your right. post some pics, so we can all see what it is. So many of us post pics of the guitars we love,

than why not show the ones with a problem? To complain just to complain and get people into a rant is pointless. Does anyone know the percentage of guitars with major problems that Gibson ships for sale? I don't. That would be an interesting stat. Of course , you should be happy with your new guitar no matter what the price. Demand the quility you pay for.

guitarworld, no, i don't think a debate is needed. you like what you like and that's it . what anybody else thinks should not matter to you and the type of guitar you like playing. That's easy. Gibson has givin us a choise.

 

 

My Gear :-)

 

‘10 LP R0 50th Anniversary Version 3 1/500 (Cherry Burst)

‘09 LP R9 50th Anniversary (Heritage Dark Burst) 1/500, Bought 4-2010 new

‘10 PRS 25th Anniversary Santana Model ,10Top / Santana Yellow

‘09 LP R9 50th. Anniversary 1 of 59 (Rust Burst)

‘09 LP R0 Standard Ebony VOS

‘09 “Wildwood” CS - 356 Quilted maple & Korina

‘05 Les Paul Standard Faded T.B.

‘08 50th comm.edition, G.O.M. Flying V

‘08 July G.O.M. Longhorn Double Cut BV (Trans Blue)

‘08 Firebird VII (metallic red)

‘08 Fender Stratocaster ‘70’s reissue (black / rosewood neck)(Fat‘50’s pups)

‘08 Fender Stratocaster ‘70’s reissue (natural / maple neck)

1999 MIM Fender Stratocaster ’70’s reissue (white / maple neck)(‘69 pups)

1987 Japan Squier by Fender, Stratocaster (white / maple neck)

1986 Ovation Model # 1767-Legend

‘08 Marshall JVM 210H - 1960 AX Cabinet

‘10 Fender Blues Deluxe reissue

And some pedals

[Yaff]

I purchased an 08 Standard and a Studio Warn Brown in the last 6 months, both perfect, at least after the pro set-up.

 

With regards to the Traditional Pickgard marks, I am not sure this is a fault or a sign of poor workmanship, its the design. As soon as there is any pressure on it, the fixing nut will touch the body and it will most probably result in a mark. The Traditional, as the name suggest if designed for the guys that don`t believe in innovation (even if it makes things better) or are happy to pay the higher prise for an original or RI. So for most of them, the Pickgard would be a must.

 

I know there are other factors, such as the Neck, but I would think Gibson would focus on the majority. If they did not fit the Pickgard in the factory, like with the Standard, I imagine we would see many people making posts about they messed up the installation and why don`t Gibson fit it.

 

I would also add, most people who buy Gibson LP`s do not spend their time on sites such as this and most of the people that do, are fanatical about the guitar or have had an issue. So the majority of Gibson LP`s may have had no issue and very happy.

 

Just my opinion

[guitarworld]

I agree with all the main points made, and my friend is now very pleased with his guitar, as I am with mine. This was never a stab at Gibson, but an attempt highlight issues found with what is such an iconic and instantly recognisable product ; The Les Paul Standard!!

 

I have to be open as well, I am a Quality Manager in the Electronics Industry, in my daily job, so I do not consider this as complaining, just trying to question things in an open way!! No offense was intended in anyway.

 

Best Regards to all Forum members, and a big thanks to Gibson for producing these beautiful guitars for us.

 

Any photo's of your 2008 Standard Yaff, I'd like to see.

[SHO]

If your friend decided to spend this much money on something, and is so picky about it, you think he would have read about the guitar on the manufacturers website.

 

"Period-Correct Pickguard

 

The creme-colored pickguard has been a Les Paul staple dating back to the models of the late 1950s and the early 1960s. Many players, however, removed the pickguard from their Les Pauls to show off the beauty of the flame maple tops, moving Gibson to stop installing the pickguard altogether. During the 1980s and 1990s, Gibson began reinstalling the pickguard in the factory, and the Les Pauls from this era once again arrived in stores bearing the classic, creme-colored pickguard. The Les Paul Traditional comes equipped with a period-correct pickguard, designed to protect the maple top."

 

There you go. The Trad ships with the pickguard mounted. Unwanted screwholes and mounting bracket marks are also included, free of charge.

[Eracer_Team]

Unwanted screwholes and mounting bracket marks are also included' date=' free of charge.

[/quote']

 

can't agree with this more...

 

guess he should have bought a model that didn't have a pick guard installed..

the holes have to be worse than the ding.

[Tim Plains]

That problem is particularly nasty - hidden damage. If I had damage like that on an expensive instrument' date=' I would return it - and I don't consider myself anal or stupid R9, and none of my guitars are behind glass.[/quote']

You would return a guitar over this much "damage" ?? Please tell me you're not serious.

It's so nasty I had a hard time getting it to show up in a picture.

 

This is the best sounding & feeling Gibson USA Les Paul I've ever put my hands on. If I were anal enough to return it over something as small as this, I should give up playing guitar and just focus on collecting them.

 

 

It also has a nice top to boot! :)

[jamman]

R9, thanks for posting the pics. As now we have an idea of how much a problem this is. imo i wouldn't send this guitar back, some people would. After the 1st. ding they put on it , it would be forgot about. It's really not that big of a deal.

[deepblue]

Does it have a burg in it?

 

lol!...I spilled my coffee!

[BigKahune]

R9 -

 

Very tricky, the best sounding USA LP you ever played with a gorgeous finish to boot. (BTW, killer LP )

 

You're happy with your decision on your individual situation. I'm glad that worked out for you. I will admit, faced with a similar situation - the quality of the guitar and the minimal damage - I would go the same way. (BTW, a luthier might be able to level out that dimple)

 

Of course, your fine guitar and its minimal damage has nothing to do with the how fine the other guitar is or more importantly, how much damage was done to the top.

 

... my friends £1699 guitar had a major F***ing ding in it ...

 

"a major F***ing ding" sounds pretty bad. And even if it's not, if the customer isn't happy, there's nothing wrong with returning it.

[swleary]

Makes the guitar just that much yours IMO. I wouldn't take it back , makes you sound more like a whiner...just sayin

[Yaff]

I agree with all the main points made' date=' and my friend is now very pleased with his guitar, as I am with mine. This was never a stab at Gibson, but an attempt highlight issues found with what is such an iconic and instantly recognisable product ; The Les Paul Standard!!

 

I have to be open as well, I am a Quality Manager in the Electronics Industry, in my daily job, so I do not consider this as complaining, just trying to question things in an open way!! No offense was intended in anyway.

 

Best Regards to all Forum members, and a big thanks to Gibson for producing these beautiful guitars for us.

 

Any photo's of your 2008 Standard Yaff, I'd like to see.

 

 

[/quote']

 

As requested:

 

 

This is one guitar that will stay with me for life.

 

By the way, I removed the pickgard from my Studio Worn Brown and apart from the two screw holes (easily filled in with the natural mahogany finish), no marks. Don`t play it as much, but times would need to be hard for me to let it go. Sounds fantastic when playing AC DC riffs:

 

All the best

[LarryUK]

I personally think that the holes for the pick guard would be expected as you could chip the finish fitting it yourself.

But the damage show above to the face is wrong. Cant Gibson put something under it to avoid damage? A little rubber on the screw thread or a piece of card etc for transit.

They must know some people won't want the guard on.

[BigKahune]

Yaff -

 

Really sharp looking STD. And yer WB Studio is good lookin too. :D

[guitarworld]

Yaff, You certainly have two very stunning Guitars. What burst is the '08, is it heritage cherry? Nice flame and colour.

Thanks for posting.

[Yaff]

Thank you guys, and yes, its a Heritage Cherry Sunburst.

[guitarworld]

I'm really considering getting a Heritage cherry, it'll keep my Iced Tea good company. I really like how it shows up the flame in the top.