Your viewpoint wanted on Gibson Warranty

[ajsc]

Original thread asked for a viewpoint on Gibson warranty.

I posted my viewpoint.Don't know how clearer I could have stated it?

Sorry you didn't get it .

 

 

What is the difference between Gibson, & Martin Warranty??

I know what the original post said, but fail to see what your reply had to do with answering,

that question!! Just a cheap shot at Gibson, as far as I could see.

Do you really think their warranty policies are affecting sales?

I doubt it!

[ksdaddy]

All of those problems would be solved if Gibson used Schallers. It would add $40 to a $5000 guitar, big whoop. Beats Gotoh, Ping, Korean Klusons and Grovers without even breaking a sweat.

 

I didn't pad that statement or apologize for expressing my opinion. Schallers are good tuners. Don't put cheap hardware on an expensive guitar.

[bohemian]

Gibson should have waranteed the tuners upon the first call. No excuses and willingly. Anything else was not customer service, and not fulfilling the warantee.

 

Anything can be claimed under warraqnty that was not caused by the owner/user.

 

As to using the excuse that players at Best Buy are at fault. Lame. Weak.

Unprtofessional. And not caused by the owner.

 

 

As to Martin. I will no longer own new Martins. My first guitar was a Martin which I bought in 1961, owned a dozen since, half of then new.

When Mike Longworth left Martin, the "real" Martin company died.

I bought 3 new Martins between 200-2005. All three exhibited serious problems, D-18 GE, D-18S and a D16SPD. I mean serious problems.

During my conversation with Martin "customer service" I was informed I was not a custome but an "end user". I suggested they change the name of the department to the "End User Department" from Customer Service.

All three problems reuqired factory, not dealer attention according to them, but I must first allow the local Martin repair person to botch the job. The n they would take it. Repiars would be 4-12 months on absolutely brand new instruments.

 

If I own another Martin it will be a pre 1984.

 

My opinion on new guitar warranties is quite simple. A lifetime warranty is a merchandising ploy. Usually honored on very old guitar so the manufacturer can grandstand.. and here I kno0w of several cases where nthe work wwas done no charge for other than the original owner.. again made public so they could grandstand.

 

Most manufacturing defects will show up within a year or two, certainly before 5 yeras.

 

It is my opinion that the manufacturer should offer a 5 year warranty and make it TRANSEFABLE to subsequent owners for the remainder of the 5 year period.

 

This is what I would call an adult warranty, similar to that offered on new vehicles.

 

Afterall what is waranteed, the owner or the product ?

 

I have seen Gibson play the warranty game over on the Mandolin Cafe forum.. and then of course some junior executive piggie hears about the plight and of course all the bad press, posts that he is the white knight and wills ave the day.. and... yup.. they grandstand and cover what should have been covered without all the BS and make sure that you all know about it. Classless.

 

My take is.. do it and shut up// save the glory seeking for some other enterprise.

 

You lose points when you play the "look at me , look at me" game

 

Just quietly, willingly and professionally cover the claim.

 

BTW recently I called another manufacturer about sloppy tuners on my 1977 bolt on neck product... I explained I was the second owner and only wished to find out if the tuners were available and at what cost.. they sent me new tuners at no charge.. and they didn't even go to the forum and brag about it.

 

That is class... something lacking in new age businesses, more specifically instrument makers.

 

So Gibson, jump out of the mold and be mature and act as if you respect your customers.. something Martin has forgotten about.

[The G]

What is the difference between Gibson' date=' & Martin Warranty??

I know what the original post said, but fail to see what your reply had to do with answering,

that question!! Just a cheap shot at Gibson, as far as I could see.

Do you really think their warranty policies are affecting sales?

I doubt it! [/quote']

 

Not a cheap shot. An opinion. The difference is truly significant.(Why would you comment on my submitted opinion if you didn't know what the differences were?) And yes I do believe, a lifetime warranty (As Martin provides) makes a difference to people purchasing an expensive product.

I take offence in your insinuation of a cheap shot. I'm a huge Gibson fan .I just don't think their warranty coverage compares to Martin.You are turning this into a meaningless red herring. Enuff said !!!

[NevadaPic]

Gibson should have waranteed the tuners upon the first call. No excuses and willingly. Anything else was not customer service' date=' and not fulfilling the warantee.

 

Anything can be claimed under warraqnty that was not caused by the owner/user.

 

As to using the excuse that players at Best Buy are at fault. Lame. Weak.

Unprtofessional. And not caused by the owner.

 

 

As to Martin. I will no longer own new Martins. My first guitar was a Martin which I bought in 1961, owned a dozen since, half of then new.

When Mike Longworth left Martin, the "real" Martin company died.

I bought 3 new Martins between 200-2005. All three exhibited serious problems, D-18 GE, D-18S and a D16SPD. I mean serious problems.

During my conversation with Martin "customer service" I was informed I was not a custome but an "end user". I suggested they change the name of the department to the "End User Department" from Customer Service.

All three problems reuqired factory, not dealer attention according to them, but I must first allow the local Martin repair person to botch the job. The n they would take it. Repiars would be 4-12 months on absolutely brand new instruments.

 

If I own another Martin it will be a pre 1984.

 

My opinion on new guitar warranties is quite simple. A lifetime warranty is a merchandising ploy. Usually honored on very old guitar so the manufacturer can grandstand.. and here I kno0w of several cases where nthe work wwas done no charge for other than the original owner.. again made public so they could grandstand.

 

Most manufacturing defects will show up within a year or two, certainly before 5 yeras.

 

It is my opinion that the manufacturer should offer a 5 year warranty and make it TRANSEFABLE to subsequent owners for the remainder of the 5 year period.

 

This is what I would call an adult warranty, similar to that offered on new vehicles.

 

Afterall what is waranteed, the owner or the product ?

 

I have seen Gibson play the warranty game over on the Mandolin Cafe forum.. and then of course some junior executive piggie hears about the plight and of course all the bad press, posts that he is the white knight and wills ave the day.. and... yup.. they grandstand and cover what should have been covered without all the BS and make sure that you all know about it. Classless.

 

My take is.. do it and shut up// save the glory seeking for some other enterprise.

 

You lose points when you play the "look at me , look at me" game

 

Just quietly, willingly and professionally cover the claim.

 

BTW recently I called another manufacturer about sloppy tuners on my 1977 bolt on neck product... I explained I was the second owner and only wished to find out if the tuners were available and at what cost.. they sent me new tuners at no charge.. and they didn't even go to the forum and brag about it.

 

That is class... something lacking in new age businesses, more specifically instrument makers.

 

So Gibson, jump out of the mold and be mature and act as if you respect your customers.. something Martin has forgotten about.

[/quote']

Amen. Customer service is everything.

[Guth]

Gibson should have waranteed the tuners upon the first call. No excuses and willingly. Anything else was not customer service' date=' and not fulfilling the warantee.[/quote']

 

A company the size of Gibson must carry out some amount of due diligence to remain in business. To just cover any such request without some level of process makes no sense as there a more than a few people in this world who are less-than-honest. In a perfect world, you might have a point, but we don't live in a perfect world.

 

As to using the excuse that players at Best Buy are at fault. Lame. Weak.

Unprtofessional. And not caused by the owner.

 

Agreed

 

It is my opinion that the manufacturer should offer a 5 year warranty and make it TRANSEFABLE to subsequent owners for the remainder of the 5 year period.

 

A transferable fixed-length warranty makes a lot of sense.

 

I have seen Gibson play the warranty game over on the Mandolin Cafe forum.. and then of course some junior executive piggie hears about the plight and of course all the bad press' date=' posts that he is the white knight and wills ave the day.. and... yup.. they grandstand and cover what should have been covered without all the BS and make sure that you all know about it. Classless.[/quote']

 

I'm not exactly sure what the Mandolin Cafe is, but I didn't see any grandstanding taking place here. In the end, Gibson did the honorable thing and the customer was simply reporting the experience from their perspective. I'm not clear on what you're so worked up over in this particular instance.

 

Other than supposedly bringing Best Buy customers into the equation, I really don't know what more a company the size of Gibson could have done in this case. Aside from the initial conversation, it sounds as if a quick resolution was reached. I hope the OP will report back after all is said and done and that they are once again happy with the guitar.

 

All the best,

Guth

[bohemian]

"due dillignece" is corporate yupspeak for "covering your butt" or looking out after your own personal interest before doing the right thing.

 

As a former factory (yes factory ) rep for the manufacturer of the best engineered car in the world, their reputation was built on a quality product and above all customer service .. (that all changed when an American car producer merged and infected them with the US corporate philosophy which eventually led to their break up)

 

I was told all decisions are made WITHOUT taking into consideration the cost of the resolution. My decison should be based only on what is right ,with the customer's interest first. Anything that could not have been caused by the owner/user was covered, either by the original warranty or by "a goodwill decision". I replaced camshafts on 15 year old cars, replaced exhaust systems, engines, new paint, door trim panels. And never were we allowed to "grandstand. Do it , do it quickly, do it quietly. DO IT WITH CLASS... not style.

 

We are all aware of the high price of new instruments, Gibson included, good ones are a good value, average ones.. well , I don't buy them. As to Gibson's ability to pay for or absorb warranty costs, that is a built in cost figure. The job of Gibson "customer service" seems to be how they can minimize jeopardy to our assests, not how can I help this customer.

 

As to grandstanding.. you have justs seen a mild case of this with the situation at hand. Why was this not covered without all the BS. Why only after public exposure to Gibson's decision did the issue get resolved. You don;t get poinbts for doing things under duress or for seemingly personal benefit and exposure. That is self aggrandizing.

ie grand standing.

 

I like Gibson's, my second guitar, which I purchased in 1964, was a 1946 J-45 and I have owned a dozen Gibsons since, including the dreaded Norlin era products.

 

Gibson in my opinion, along with Martin, is at an all time low in customer service.. and respect. How can we distance ourselves form the customer.. the new age way of business management.

I believe that the manufacturer who decides to break the idiotic lifetime warranty tradition and replace it with an adult warranty that is transferrable will come out ahead. If they must, hang on to the "limited lifetime warranty' for the first purchaser and offer a max 5 year transferable warranty to subsequent owners.

 

BTW Sullivan banjos does this.. yes , a transfereble warranty . Yup, the folks that make components for Gibson banjos.

 

Perhaps Gibson could stop suing folks and instead use their resources to satisfy their warranty claims, bolster their customer service and even make some "goodwill decisions" . But that would be an honorable and adult thing to do.

 

It has been my opinion from the beginning of the current regime, that their only "end game" was to elevate the value of their stock and assets and elevate their image and status..... by any means possible..

Niggling about warranty claims , and playing the "look at me" (we actually helped some one but we need points )...

"see us"' .."over here teacher".... infantile games proves my point.

 

I respect and own ( some of ) the product , but have little admiration for the ownership and management.

 

"due dilligence"... gag me.

 

addendum..

Gibson's warranty decisions and customer service affecting new guitar sales..

you bet...

 

That is a definite deterrent to purchase, and prevents me from buying a new AJ which I really, really want. ( and can afford, so this is not blowing in the wind)

When their attitude changes, or the current suits go away, I may reconsider.

 

I broke my position last year and did buy a new Epiphone Elitist Byrdland. Hopefully nothing will go wrong.

[sorad]

On my gibson les paul standard i played it for 6 months then wondered why on vibratos on the 1st string I was slipping off. Land M the gibson retailer was like O its just the nut we can get you another plastic one put I was like Nvm ill get a bone one put in my my luthier, 50 bucks no biggie then when I get it there he says the fret ends were filed at the the wrong angle and so I took it to a few other respected techs and they said the same thing. So I took it to l and M and said can I get this fixed and they said they cant do it under waranty bla bla, but they would contact yorkville I kept bugging them as well finally they said "they are hand made instruments" I said I know that but it was hand made inproperly the guy said theres nothing htey can do. So i ended up getting a refret. Its a wonderfull guitar but customer service crap like this really bugs me, file them properly! I Havent had a problem in 8 years now.

[xxx]

Update:

Roger B made it right with the tuners! Thanks Roger!

[Red 333]

 

Gibson in my opinion' date=' along with Martin, is at an all time low in customer service.. and respect. How can we distance ourselves form the customer.. the new age way of business management.

I believe that the manufacturer who decides to break the idiotic lifetime warranty tradition and replace it with an adult warranty that is transferrable will come out ahead. If they must, hang on to the "limited lifetime warranty' for the first purchaser and offer a max 5 year transferable warranty to subsequent owners.addendum..

 

Gibson's warranty decisions and customer service affecting new guitar sales..

you bet...

 

That is a definite deterrent to purchase, and prevents me from buying a new AJ which I really, really want. ( and can afford, so this is not blowing in the wind)

 

When their attitude changes, or the current suits go away, I may reconsider.

 

I broke my position last year and did buy a new Epiphone Elitist Byrdland. Hopefully nothing will go wrong.[/quote']

 

I bought an ES 335 from a store that was going out of business. It had fallen off a stand and had a crack in the upper horn, so I got it at a considerable discount--about 2/3 off the then-selling price. At that price, I thought that investing some additional money in fixing it was worth it. After calling for an estimate (because I wouldn't presume that such an accident would be covered by the warranty), I sent it to Gibson Repair and Resoration to get it cleated and refinished. Learning that it was a "new" guitar, they completed the work and refinished the guitar FREE OF CHARGE. It was a natural topped the guitar, and they even offered to hide the repair with a sunburst, which would have been for them additonal labor (I elected to keep the top natural).

 

I too, have an Epiphone Elitist Byrdland, which I purchased online. When it arrived from the seller, a pice of binding had broken off of the pickguard. I emailed Epiphone, and they sent a replacement guard in days--no problem.

 

I know not everyone's experience is the same, but Gibson exceeded my expectations with their Lifetime Guarantee. In addition, I have always found thier reps to be polite, responsive, and knowlegeable when I have had occassion to ask questions, especially LaVonne in Bozeman.

 

So the warranty is worth it to me, and has influenced my decision to purchase new from a dealer. As evidence, I have an AJ, J45 TV, SJ TV, Maple Advanced Jumbo (short scale), J45 Vine, J185 Vine, J160E Peace, J160E Standard, Fuller's J35 Reissue, the ES 335, an ES 333, ES 339, Les Paul Studio, two McCartney Texans, an Elitist Texan, Elitist J200, Elitist Broadway, Elitist Byrdland, Elitist ES 335, Elitist Casino, John Lennon Revolution Casino, John Lennon '65 Casino, two Elitist Les Paul Standards, an Elitist SG, Jack Casady Bass, Wildkat, Broadway, Masterbilt AJ 500R, Masterbilt AJ 500M, Masterbilt DR 500M, Masterbilt AJ 500RC, an EL 00, an Epiphone Blues Custom amp, Epiphone Valve Senior amp, two Epiphone Valve Juniors, a Les Paul GA-5 amp, and some other stuff--ALL BOUGHT NEW. Unless I am buying a vintage instrument, I wouldn't buy a recently made Gibson or Epiphone unless it was from a dealer, because I value the warranty (though some of our forum members have some beautiful guitars for sale from time to time that I wouldn't be oppossed to buying).

 

I hope you give the AJ a chance--you might miss out on a fine instrument and many hours of enjoyment otherwise.

 

By the way, the ES 335 was only my second Gibson, so its not like they made some kind of exception for me because I am such a good customer.

 

Red 333

[BigKahune]

Red -

 

That's a couple of great experiences. And a great outcome for XXX.

 

I've been buying Gibson's and Epiphones for years and have had only good experiences when calling for help.

[bkharmony]

Not a cheap shot. An opinion. The difference is truly significant.(Why would you comment on my submitted opinion if you didn't know what the differences were?) And yes I do believe' date=' a lifetime warranty (As Martin provides) makes a difference to people purchasing an expensive product.

I take offence in your insinuation of a cheap shot. I'm a huge Gibson fan .I just don't think their warranty coverage compares to Martin.You are turning this into a meaningless red herring. Enuff said !!!

 

It was indeed a cheap shot, because you just made some vague comment, then refused to explain what you meant. Let me ask you this time: what is the difference between Gibson's warranty and Martin's? Furthermore, why do you think Gibson would sell more guitars if they implemented a warranty like Martin's?

 

If you don't want to be offended, explain yourself. Otherwise, it looks like you either don't know what you're talking about or just want to get people riled up.

[milod]

I guess the thing that would interest me if I worked for Gibson would be to get the exact details on the guitar's travels after leaving the factory. Why would there be plating problems. If there were indeed some "chemicals" of any sort in the air or on people's hands, what effect might one expect and how might one change manufacturing and/or warm purchasers about some external factor.

 

A perfect example - and I think all guitar companies should howl about this one - is Deet in insect repellent. It liquifies finishes. Yeah, I learned the hard way. I hope my howling has saved finishes on other guitars. For what it's worth, I blamed myself, not the manufacturer.

 

But in ways, I think manufacturers should put a bit of a warning about chemicals and such when they sell guitars. Although in the old days, at least, I don't think I saw a set of tuning pegs that didn't have rust on them someplace.

 

As for Gibson folks vs. other companies, yada yada...

 

Seriously, I think regardless of company or policy, there likely are differences between individuals making decisions - and even the same individual on a given day. I could feature somebody with a bad week of bullpookie claims being a bit grumpy and less likely to go for replacing something regardless. Which is why going for a second opinion ain't a bad idea.

 

I sent my Ovation Country Artist back to the factory for a top repair when it was well over 30 years old. I didn't expect a freebie for what life had given the thing even though it was very well cared for. Oddly it was the nylon string guitar that had the problem, not the steel string version of the same age living next to each other. So... was it my fault, the materials' fault, or simply that stuff happens in 30 years of a guitar's life and a particular piece of wood? My "lifetime warranty" was honored. It was pricey to ship, though, for both me and the company.

 

m