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Gibson Les Paul vs Epiphone Les Paul


Konov

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At $1200' date=' the Epiphone elitist IMHO would be a bit better... The pickups in a studio may be a bit better than what they put in the japanese models... but not by much...

[/quote']Stock Elitist pickups are the Epiphone 50SR/60ST humbuckers, made by Gibson, which are simply re-labelled Gibson 490/498 - exactly what is in the Les Paul Studio.

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As was my suggestion earlier. I wouldn't limit myself to just Gibson or Epiphone. You can find a lot of MIJ (Made in Japan) Copies like Burny, Greco, Tokai, Orville, and Edwards or MIJ Epiphones on ebay. For 1100 w/ shipping you can get a really nice MIJ Copy, which are very nice quality, and use better materials than Chinese Epiphones. Plus all the MIJ Copies have the Gibson Headstock, which is nice.

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Stock Elitist pickups are the Epiphone 50SR/60ST humbuckers' date=' made by Gibson, which are simply re-labelled Gibson 490/498 - exactly what is in the Les Paul Studio.[/quote']

 

That is the first time I have ever heard that... where do you get this information ? Or are you just assuming...

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As was my suggestion earlier. I wouldn't limit myself to just Gibson or Epiphone. You can find a lot of MIJ (Made in Japan) Copies like Burny' date=' Greco, Tokai, Orville, and Edwards or MIJ Epiphones on ebay. For 1100 w/ shipping you can get a really nice MIJ Copy, which are very nice quality, and use better materials than Chinese Epiphones. Plus all the MIJ Copies have the Gibson Headstock, which is nice.[/quote']

 

Let's not forget the Guild Bluesbird... Made in USA and IMHO a nicer guitar than Gibson/Tokai etc...

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As was my suggestion earlier. I wouldn't limit myself to just Gibson or Epiphone. You can find a lot of MIJ (Made in Japan) Copies like Burny' date=' Greco, Tokai, Orville, and Edwards or MIJ Epiphones on ebay. For 1100 w/ shipping you can get a really nice MIJ Copy, which are very nice quality, and use better materials than Chinese Epiphones. Plus all the MIJ Copies have the Gibson Headstock, which is nice.[/quote']
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I'm carrying it over from a post at the Epiphone forum... I can find it again' date=' but I don't know how long it will take.[/quote']

 

no problem... Keep in mind I am not saying you are wrong... but I would really like to see the source... Anyway, I swaped out my elitist Dot pickups for Gibson 57 Classics and I heared a difference... Significant enough for me to be glad I changed the pickups... But then again that may be because the 57 bridge is not as shrill as the 498T... who knows...

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Found it, quicker than I thought I would. It's not an official word from Epiphone/Gibson, by anymeans, but this, coupled with the facts of the pickups - both Alnico V and around 8k - is convincing enough for me.

 

Original Post

 

Everything I've heard is that the Epi Elitist 50SR/60ST pickups are the same as Gibson's 490R/498T combo' date=' and having compared them to a couple of Gibson Studios I have to say that I haven't heard anything to contradict that information. So, decent pickups, nothing stellar like '57 Classics or BBs, but nothing to be ashamed of either, although one of my more jaded guitar buddies finds them to be a bit [i']strident[/i]. And all finished in nickel too.
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I've owned 2 epi standards (which I sold) and currently have a Gibson LP studio. We could debate all day over gibson vs. epiphone but people that have the money to get a Gibson usually do it. Ever hear someone with a Gibson tell someone who is buying or has an epiphone, "...yeah epiphones are great guitars....they're just as good as gibsons"? When I finally bought my gibson I had people say, congrats on the guitar. Not that one is better than the other because you can certainly find a lousy Gibson but as always there are pros and con's. Choose wisely.

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When purchasing my LP Studio Worn, I tried Epiphones as well. I didn't like them at all ... from playability to quality. It was really palpable. I agree with one of the posters who said that just seeing an Epi headstock would put a negative vibe on each session for him. I'm inclined to agree ... had I bought an Epi, I would have been lusting for a Gibson EVERY TIME. Perhaps it's an issue of good marketing, but I really feel that way. Since I would not have been happy if I'd purchased something else, I got a Gibson.

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Can't tell the difference?

Don't pay the difference.

 

 

 

Fact - Lower quality electronics.

This means the pots will likely fail at some point, if the selector doesn't go first.

Not an expensive fix, but some wood must be removed to fit better parts in it.

 

Pickups seem to hold up okay.

 

Wood is some sort of mystery from God-knows-where in the Pacific Rim.

Most Epiphones I've seen are stable where construction is concerned, and play decently.

Just don't think for a second that much time is spent selecting the best tone woods.

 

Paint is enamel of some sort, varies from guitar to guitar. Usually applied decently and wears well.

 

Resale value is usually sh!t, you buy a new one and it's yours until you give it away.

 

 

 

Reality -

A set of pickups, pots, selector, and some wiring will set you back $300 if you do it yourself.

Factor that into the price if you want to seriously compare a Gibson to the Epi.

And you still have an Epiphone when you're done.

 

 

 

Opinion - I don't buy ANYTHING made in China unless I have no other choice.

A guitar is a luxury, even a toy.

I don't NEED it bad enough to help sink the USA even more with a trade deficit to an enemy of our nation.

 

If I needed a kidney transplant to survive, and the only one was in China - okay.

Anything less than that, I'm reading the labels on everything I buy.

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I am considering buying an explorer 1958 Korina by Epi because they are neat and the price is so low now (350-499).

 

But, knowing me, I'll probably have a pro luthier set it up and put in new pups.(150-350 extra spent)

 

Sooooo, I can locate used US made Gibson Explorers on craigs list for $650-1200

 

 

 

Lastly to the OP, I have never heard of a $800 epi guitar. If you have 800 for a guitar, don't buy an epi. Get a used real les paul, new fender HWY 1 or a motor cycle!!!

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My Epiphone Les Paul Custom has amazing sound for the money ($500 CAD for a newly used with Hard Case) but it does not compare in the quality workmanship department to my recent purchase of my new Gibson Les Paul Push Tone ($1700 new and on sale with hard case and spare pick ups - regular $2500 - MSRP $4449). One of the obvious differences in quality is the fret board. My Epi LP needed work on seven frets (approximately $10/fret) to eliminate buzzing sounds. Other minor quality issues are clean up under the cover plates (switch and capacitor access) as there were shavings from the cut out process. Tone and volume controls were not tightly mounted. The input jack was not tightly mounted either. It seems for certain items coming from China the attention to details is somewhat lost (30 seconds with a vaccum for example).

 

I will not sell my Epiphone as I love the sound and it is my first guitar. It also looks pretty slick in alpine white, gold harware and black pick guard. Plus I plan to install a bigsby tail piece (another thread). If you're patient (if you have a decent gutiar to keep you busy) and keep dropping by your favourite guitar shop(s) you will find a nice deal as well:-"

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my opinion its all preference. if you can deal with the epiphone quality and enjoy the sound, playability, etc. then thats what you get. yes, try and try and try ALL the guitars as many times as you need to to figure out what you like because in the end, its your money, your time, your sound as well. i personally have been "tainted" by the quality of a gibson and i nitpick if i pick up an epiphone. there are other guys that prefer epiphone so to each his own. hope you find your guitar and good luck

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Lastly to the OP' date=' I have never heard of a $800 epi guitar. If you have 800 for a guitar, don't buy an epi. Get a used real les paul, new fender HWY 1 or a motor cycle!!![/quote']

You're apparently not actually looking, then. There are currently three Epiphone Les Pauls that sell for $800, and five other Epiphone (electrics) that sell for between $800 and $1000.

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The guitars in that range (with the exception of the artist signature models that are aimed at a very niche market) are getting great reviews. Some people would rather have the Gibson, others would rather have a guitar with diffierent features - the Prophecy Les Pauls and the Tribute. What I've seen of the Tribute (there are 1960 and 2010 versions) has been very good. Both are constructed very well. The 1960 is more of a classic design, as far as features go, while the 2010 has the asymmetrical neck from the 2008 Gibson.

 

Plus, if you're looking at Les Pauls, I don't think a Fender is really a consideration. On the previous page of this thread, people said that Burny and Greco and Tokai Les Paul copies were good alternatives to a Gibson - why can't a similarly-priced Epiphone?

 

I don't own any Les Paul, though... I just report what I see.

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The guitars in that range (with the exception of the artist signature models that are aimed at a very niche market) are getting great reviews. Some people would rather have the Gibson' date=' others would rather have a guitar with diffierent features - the Prophecy Les Pauls and the Tribute. What I've seen of the Tribute (there are 1960 and 2010 versions) has been very good. Both are constructed very well. The 1960 is more of a classic design, as far as features go, while the 2010 has the asymmetrical neck from the 2008 Gibson.

 

Plus, if you're looking at Les Pauls, I don't think a Fender is really a consideration. On the previous page of this thread, people said that Burny and Greco and Tokai Les Paul copies were good alternatives to a Gibson - why can't a similarly-priced Epiphone?

 

I don't own any Les Paul, though... I just report what I see.[/quote']

 

I would assume, that's due to the quality of the matierals being used...China's known for using cheap low-quality matierals....so that would be my guess...

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What you can do is pull the specs of the Epi you are considering and compare those specs to the Gibby specs you are considering. Put them side by side and make your decision. The quality issue should definitely be a priority in your comparison. (usually, pups, pots, caps, switches, jacks are some of the main differences in quality). My friend just purchased the Gibson LP Studio in Alpine White and it is sweet ride. If you're going to spend 800 - 1000 I recommend the Gibby. [thumbup]

 

Here are the specs:

approximately $1200.00 CAD new

Traditional Hand-Carved Top and Swamp Ash Chambered Body

'50s Rounded Neck Profile

22-Fret Rosewood Fingerboard with Classic Trapezoid Inlays

Gibson's 490R and 498T Pickups

Chrome Nashville Tune-O-Matic Bridge and Keystone Tuners

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Funny thing........my Epi LP custom was advertised as a mahogony body and Henry says the species is Nato.

Family: Leguminosa

Nato is a South American hard wood, similar to mahogany. It's the current "budget" wood. That doesn't mean that it is a bad or cheap wood. At one time, mahogany was considered the cheap alternative, and nobody knew how well it would do in the long run. Now mahogony is considered a 'fine' wood. Could Nato be the next mahogany? Only time will tell.

 

The guitar still sounds pretty darn good but it ain't a Gibson.

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You Get what you pay for, end of discussion.

I have never owned an Epi, nor do I intend to.

every one I ever have tried I just can't get a good sound out of.

so I vote Gibson 100%

Besides if you got 800 saved whats a couple weeks to throw another 3-400, and get the real deal?

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This is my concern as someone in the hunt for a good electric right now. I hope to God that there is a "technical" and "quality" difference between the two. Because if not, people that buy US are getting ripped off.

 

I want to buy an American guitar, because I'm an American. However, when I look at the car industry, it kind of irks me. I think the labor unions made it so employees got more than they really deserved, and the customer pays for it in the end. And possibly the company themselves. Is this happening in the guitar industry? I don't know. If there are quantifiable things like better hardware, and fit and finish, attention to detail, etc, than I see no problem with the Americans asking more for their guitars. If they really are better, than they should be more expensive. But if it's the case that they're the same crap but we just cost more as people in the US, I don't like that at all. It seems like that is not the case, considering what you guys are saying. And that is comforting. And that may just force me to wait a little longer and buy a real one.

 

What about used though? Should we use the same theory? Have the US made ones always been better?

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This is my concern as someone in the hunt for a good electric right now. I hope to God that there is a "technical" and "quality" difference between the two. Because if not, people that buy US are getting ripped off.

 

I want to buy an American guitar, because I'm an American. However, when I look at the car industry, it kind of irks me. I think the labor unions made it so employees got more than they really deserved, and the customer pays for it in the end. And possibly the company themselves. Is this happening in the guitar industry? I don't know. If there are quantifiable things like better hardware, and fit and finish, attention to detail, etc, than I see no problem with the Americans asking more for their guitars. If they really are better, than they should be more expensive. But if it's the case that they're the same crap but we just cost more as people in the US, I don't like that at all. It seems like that is not the case, considering what you guys are saying. And that is comforting. And that may just force me to wait a little longer and buy a real one.

 

What about used though? Should we use the same theory? Have the US made ones always been better?

Oh no you ditn't...(sic) heheh, trying to keep it light. But you just struck a nerve, and couldn't be more wrong. (Keep in mind I am Detroit born and bred, and have seen the depression the local economy is currently in first hand and it's ugly). While we here were in a recession 5 years ago (or at least suffering classic symptoms of one), when the rest of the nation finally joined us, we only sunk further into the funk.

 

Now I will admit there is an element of truth to what you imply went on with the UAW (seen it first hand too, been in many UAW plants over the years, as I work in construction, and we do the work in those plants when they are shut down for holidays, changeover, or renovation/additions/alterations etc. The entitlement mentality of some of the UAW is unconscionable (I myself am union, but not UAW).

 

BUT (and it's a HUGE but!), your post would seem to imply that wages in China and the US should be the same (they are not even close- if the average Chinese worker got even the US minimum wage- which is what, like $7.25 an hour? {which btw = $15,080 per year at 40 hr/wk with no time off- and that's the minimum wage} They'd be thrilled! The average wage in China for 2009 for a city Dweller was $2700. Could one live on that on the USA? Nope. At even our minimum wage, could an auto worker afford to buy the cars they build? Nope. What about housing?

 

You need to understand that there are cultural as well as economic differences. The US auto industry provides a product of exceptional value, especially when you consider the paltry wages earned in other parts of the world (where products are often made purely for export, or industries are often propped up or subsidized by their government to encourage export). Henry Ford had a vision with the Model T. Wanted his employees to actually be able to afford to buy what they were building. Personally, I think that's a great idea.

 

Either way, politics aside, imports are less expensive than domestic goods in many cases. And it's not always due to quality. But it does matter to the trade balance, and economy of the country in which you live. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against the Chinese or their products. But in many cases, I choose the American product over theirs. In the case of guitars especially, where it is a "luxury", I'll buy the best I can afford. In general terms, Gibsons are superior to Epiphones. Are the Epi's really professional quality as Henry says? Some of them I'm sure are. Others, not so much. And the materials? Some corners are surely cut (already established I think). On even the top end models, is the finish poly or nitro? I don't know, that's why I ask. I suspect poly. And nitro finishes is purportedly one of the single highest cost items of producing a Gibson guitar.

 

Buy what you want, it's your money and your music. But don't try to tell me the average American worker should try to get by on $2700 per year. And why don't we leave political, hot button topics such as this off the board completely? It's a guitar Forum. Let's simply talk guitars (to include "value" if you wish). But lets leave the politics of wages/unions and such out of it!

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You make good points and I am sorry if I offended. I am glad you at least acknowledged my viewpoint. Very good of you. You're right, we can't compete with those wages. It is a dilemma. So much junk comes from China and I try not to buy it also. But it's sneaks into our homes in many ways.

 

The question is, do I save up to buy an American. I am also still debating about Fenders. And I'm not sure I want to pay American prices for one when a Mexican built one could serve me well. I'm not so sure about the epiphone models. All I know is as a Father, Husband, and NOT a professional player, I have to make the right decisions with money, because it could go to use doing something else in my family. That is the case with a lot of people I would assume. It is not an easy decision to wrangle over. The only upside is that if you buy an Epiphone or Mexican or any pacific rim guitar made by an American company, at least the funds are going to the American Company. I bought a Ford Focus for my last car. There are a lot of really good Import cars in that category that we could've looked at, but I wanted to buy American. I'm not sure if that one is built here though. I think it's built in europe or something. You may know better.

 

Thank you for your input.

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