Upgrade with better pickups

[Lerxst1281733995]

their split tele humbucker pups suck eggs IMHO.

 

I have the Fatbody and Vintage '62 in my current Tele and love them to pieces... I was considering the "Lil' Puncher" humbuckers in another Tele I'm building... What did you find wrong with them?

[carverman]

This strikes me very much as a "I can't afford a Gibson but I can afford insert big name brand of choice pickups' date=' so my modded Epi's better than your modded Epi!"

[/quote']

 

Oh yeah, who says so?

 

Arf!! This thread is really getting interesting!

I just finished completely rewiring my "trick pony" Epi LP Custom.

Did some battery case routing, moved the stock Neck p_up to the bridge,

installed a Sustaninac which has an active

SC/HB p_up/driver..and two push-pull pots to twirl and play with.

 

Now I have so many sounds coming out of 'er..I'm confused!

But that l-o-n-g--g--g 25 second (or more) sustain.

She wails..she screams, ..my ears will never be the same.

What have I done?...I've turned this gentle run-of-the-mill Epi

LP into a wailing, screamin banshee.

[RotcanX]

Well, it's good to have opinions, but they should be based on experience as opposed to speculation. I have yet to try a GFS pickup so I have nothing to say about them, other than that a lot of the forum members seem to be satisfied with them. However until I actually try one out myself I'll reserve judgement. IMHO the original post here was nothing more than a waste of bandwidth.

 

Now excuse me while I go dig my car out of my driveway.

[garyelcrrt1281733995]

RotcanX said: Now excuse me while I go dig my car out of my driveway.

 

I grew up in west Penn., and remember 25 below Farenheit, 5 foot drifts, sleet and hailstones as big as golf balls. That's why I moved to Calif. in 1970. I've been in snow 3 times since then - none of them voluntarily.

 

You have my most sincere condolences.

 

Now excuse me while I go watch a basketball game and have a cold Pilsner Urquell...

[st3v3ss]

I'm always looking for a good value in anything guitar oriented and have tried GFS on many occasions in three different guitars. I know lots of people that really like them but they did not do anything for me at all tonal wise. I've gotten rid of all the set's I've had and they have terrible resale value as they're not pricey to begin with. YMMV

[layboomo]

 

I have the Fatbody and Vintage '62 in my current Tele and love them to pieces... I was considering the "Lil' Puncher" humbuckers in another Tele I'm building... What did you find wrong with them?

 

 

I have used the 62's and the fatboys and I agree they are great. The lil puncher isn't what I was talking about it's this one http://store.guitarfetish.com/visphuclfest.html . I put a set in a tele deluxe and was VERY unimpressed....thin and whimpy!

This fernandes I built up with lipstick tubes and a dream 90 and it absolutely ripped......killer blues tones in every position. All of my comments are limited to the pickups from GFS that I have tried. Some Great,some So-So and some real crap too.

[Lerxst1281733995]

 

I have used the 62's and the fatboys and I agree they are great. The lil puncher isn't what I was talking about it's this one http://store.guitarfetish.com/visphuclfest.html . I put a set in a tele deluxe and was VERY unimpressed....thin and whimpy!

 

Oooh.. My bad... I'll file that away for future reference, though... My original idea was to build a Tele with a humbucker in the neck position... I'll probably end up doing that eventually...

 

Has anyone actually tried the "Lil' Puncher" pups for the Tele?

[JEPI]

RotcanX said: Now excuse me while I go dig my car out of my driveway.

 

I grew up in west Penn.' date=' and remember 25 below Farenheit, 5 foot drifts, sleet and hailstones as big as golf balls. That's why I moved to Calif. in 1970. I've been in snow 3 times since then - none of them voluntarily.

 

You have my most sincere condolences.

 

Now excuse me while I go watch a basketball game and have a cold Pilsner Urquell...[/quote']

 

I'm originally from Massillon, Ohio, 'bout 50 miles south of Cleveland and when I read what RotcanX said, my heart went out to him as well. I read this morning that they, OH, just got 20 inches yesterday. Don't miss that at all.

Pilsner Urquell...THE BEER - My favorite from Pilzen and reported as being the original Pilsner recipe. Makes my Epiphone sound, feel and look fabulous - "even with stock pups"!!!.......lol..........J

[charlie brown]

I see this kind of discussion, a lot, on this and other forums. But, for me...unless the pickups in question are broken,

or really way off specs, I think the bigger/biggest tone difference will be with the Amp! And, of course one's own technique,

or lack there of. I'm not saying this or that brand pick-up, will not make any difference...they can/will, to a certain degree. But

most tone comes from technique, and the amp, beyond the obvious differences between "Fender" sound and Gibson,

or "Solid body vs Hollow or semi-hollow body" guitars. Again...personal preferences, play a big part.

[TWANG]

Well since opinions are like a$$holes and I have both....my $.02 is that GFS makes some very good bang for the buck PUPS and they also make some real sh!t too. Their fatboy tele pickups are some of the best tele pickups I've herd regardless of price....on the other hand the dream 180's were a Big disappointment as was a middle of the road set of strat pickups from them. Their lipsticktubes are decent as is the mean 90 but their split tele humbucker pups suck eggs IMHO. They won't ever get close to a handwound set of WCR's or Florence voodoo's etc...but they don't cost $300 a set either. They fill a niche for modding asian imports and hit a very good pricepoint as most of the stuff on the GFS site does...but it is what it is. Sometimes modding is nothing more than turd polishing...when it's all said and done you have a pretty turd...but a turd none the less. That doesn't mean all asian imports are turds...or even that some turds can't be polished up quite nicely...but lets just keep it real.

 

I'm just repeating your post 'cause everything was covered there.

except the angst!

 

I've had darn good pickups sound no so hot in the wrong darn guitar.

go figger.

[freednighthawk]

I've had darn good pickups sound no so hot in the wrong darn guitar.

go figger.

 

Yeah. Thats a big huge part of it. Some guitars are pickier than even some guitar owners. And one thing I have noticed with GFS is that they tend to do a little better with their fancy and gimic p_ups.

[smokestack]

Nice to come back to nice sensible and good tempered debate after a short holiday ;^)

 

"Upgrading", or rather changing pickups for some with characteristics more suited to your requirements, is an increasingly popular mod with folks looking for a better [or different] response from their guitar.

Even amongst the most respected names in the industry you'll get different opinions as to how important pickups are.

Some gurus will tell you that pickups are everything... that the right pups on a two by four will sound wonderful!

Other folks will hold that the wood and construction of the guitar are what counts... and that no real improvements will result from chopping and changing between different types or brands of pickup.

As with most things, I suspect that the truth is somewhere in between.

Pickups are very simple devices which lend themselves very well to modern cost effective manufacturing processes...so long as the maker has an understanding of the specs and materials which are fundemental to the required performance. And that's the rub.

Time was when the pickups made in Asia or other "offshore" facilities were uniformly poor when compared to the "real deal". This is because the materials and construction varied markedly from the original designs they were visually replicating. Ceramic magnets glued to the back of the flatwork, any old wire stock that could be used, no real thought or understanding of what makes a pickup sound the way it does.

That's now changing in certain areas of the industry and is where the likes of GFS, Giovanni and others are doing good business. We're seeing pickups built in Asia from the right materials, with guidance and specifications provided by folks who know about pickups. The result is that you can now buy at very reasonable cost a genuinely good pickup, voiced in the way you want it.

So are they as good as the SD Antiquities or the Bare Knuckles of this world ? Well unless you think that sand cast magnets or maple spacers are the fundamental elements of pickup design...they aren't too far away ;^).

Pickups aren't "snake oil" . They are the product or electrical and, to a lesser degree degree, mechanical engineering.

Use the right materials and build them to the right spec and they'll sound right.

The question is then ...what's "right" ?

This is where it becomes subjective and where the marketing and hype can take folks for a ride !

 

You have to know and understand how you want the performance to differ. The right choice of after market pickups can then make a very nice difference.

In the context of standard production Epiphone guitars, nobody is then going to tell me that fitting a pair of SD Seth Lovers or Bare Knuckle Stormy Mondays makes better sense than a pair of Wilkinson WVC-Ns ;^) . The performance differences would be more down to the guitar... and the value for money equation is a no-brainer !

 

The bottom line is that we should look at products like GFS pickups as a godsend, make informed choices and don't believe all the hype.

 

[As for Standard Epi pickups...there's nothing wrong with them. It's just that for many tastes, the right decisions might not have been taken in voicing them.]

[Dave]

I think the main difference in similarly designed pickups is output, which is dependent upon the integrity of the windings and the number of turns around a good magnet. High output pickups will provide more drive to the preamp which is interpreted as better sound in some cases and in others, not so good. If your preamp is hot, you might end up slightly overdriven even with the drive knob turned off.

 

If you scope the output of your guitar, you might find that the resultant waveform varies with the sensitivity of the pickup. Some pickups are more sensitive to the harmonics bouncing around in the wood and directed back to the pickup. Some pickups are microphonic and will inject other subtle waveforms that another pickup ignores.

 

Then, there is the ear of the user and how we hear what is played. We don't all see colors exactly the same and we don't all hear sounds exactly the same. How we process what we hear based on our expectations is another important input to the mix.

 

It's still up to the user. What is pleasing to me may not sound good to others. My Pearly Gates LP through my Vox AD50VT is the best sound I've had since I played through my first amp in 1965. I may find something I like better, but for the present, I'm happy. I still think that the price of pickups is set by the popularity and support of the users. If you manufacture the greatest pickups in the world, you can't sell them for $100 apiece until the world declares them to be great. They may beat all others technically, but no one will pay the price until their favorite player raves about them in a magazine advertisement.

[AS90]

I have bought loads of stuff fron GFS, I was just about ready to say how great their pickups were, but then I realized both the pickups I bought are now back in their boxes. The Tele neck pickup lasted 2 days before I re-fitted the original, the Mean 90 was ok but nothing special. Come to think of it the pickup rings I bought for my LP didn't fit properly either. The pots and caps and pickguards etc have been great and I am still planning on buying a neck pickup for my SG project, so I suppose GFS are a bit hit and miss.

[Nickblues1]

I always thought that you get exactly what you pay for with pickups. GFS pickups have been around for a while. With the exception of about two articles, which were self promoted, I have not seen any real reviews on them. I mean real industry related reviews not opinions of everyday people.

 

My money's on the real pickups by the likes of Duncan, Dimarzio, Lawrence, etc. Don't confuse louder output as better sounding pickups. There is a reason GFS cost what they do, and it's not because they use premium parts.

 

Just my opinion on the mater.

[smokestack]

..... There is a reason GFS cost what they do' date=' and it's not because they use premium parts.

 

Just my opinion on the mater.[/quote']

 

There are various reasons...but the biggest is that they are built in the far east.

The very best pups are still probably those lovingly crafted by the likes of SD, Lollar, Bare Knuckle etc.

These makers, at some cost, strive to replicate the finest details of the original designs and manufacturing processes. The result is a beautifully put together and wonderful sounding pickup [if that's your taste].

What you get with the likes of GFS or Wilkinson pickups is all the major elements of correct construction, which substantially define the pickup's performance. What you don't get is that expensive icing on the cake which may or may not produce an audibly better result in a given application.

Arguing the toss about which "Vintage" PAFalike is better than another is rather a pointless discussion anyway.

It depends for a start on which example of the extremely variable originals you were trying to copy !

The nice thing today is that modern production standards and controls enable the makers with understanding to voice pickups in ways which are predictable and to offer different specs for differing tastes. If you want a "soft" sweet and open PAF with Alnico II magnets, you can buy one. If you want an overwound and cutting rocker with Alnico Vs , there are plenty of those too.

[TVT]

I have bought loads of stuff fron GFS' date=' I was just about ready to say how great their pickups were, but then I realized both the pickups I bought are now back in their boxes. The Tele neck pickup lasted 2 days before I re-fitted the original, the Mean 90 was ok but nothing special. Come to think of it the pickup rings I bought for my LP didn't fit properly either. The pots and caps and pickguards etc have been great and I am still planning on buying a neck pickup for my SG project, so I suppose GFS are a bit hit and miss.[/quote']

 

It must be personal choice I guess. How we dial things in on our amps or the tone we crave for that matter. After reading your take on the Mean 90 it proves it to me at least. We all have different taste for tone for sure. For example, to me that's the best thing GFS has is the Mean 90. I love the snarly growl and warm bassy bottom of this pup. Yep, respectfully it's all subjective for sure.

[TWANG]

Donald Brosnac has a book. guitar electronics, a workbook

it's called.

 

learn how the originals were made. what is hype and what is not.

how to modify your guitar electronics

schematics and more included..

 

and a lot of this BS people are putting out.. no offense, will be cleared up for you.

 

there is quality of materials, and quality of construction.

more and more these things are becoming less apparent in some models.

 

I've played three sets of duncan designed pups and epis blew all three away.

I've had I don't know how many import single coils and humbucks in my little shop..

and epis typically sound as good as the best, if not better, and were better made, told easily by looking.

 

wire guage, magnet type, those can vary with the quality.

number of turns. pole piece material.

bottom plate metal thickness and quality..

 

people thought zebras were special but gibson just ran out of matching bezels!

 

fit to mounting rings is a common hassle, with many brands, just due to us or metric measurements.

beyond that, some just are made larger/smaller for who knows what manu. reason.

 

when you pile subjective criteria.. which as you can easily note from this thread.. is huge..

well.. it's all good for the manus, this bickering, eh?

 

I'm gonna drop a name. Kent Armstrong. because I've had so many in my shop and used so many in my own kits and builds.. as well as outright custom sales.. and I've never gotten a bad set.

Is there a better pickup? I don't know what it would have except a different sound that I liked better and frankly, I don't think any of you could choose for me.

 

So as a dealer just let me say.. buy pickups! buys lots of pickups!

and have a good time!

[RSDx]

FWIW, I'm content with the tone/output of my stock Epi pups, for now .........

[TVT]

Donald Brosnac has a book. guitar electronics' date=' a workbook

it's called.

 

learn how the originals were made. what is hype and what is not.

how to modify your guitar electronics

schematics and more included..

 

and a lot of this BS people are putting out.. no offense, will be cleared up for you.

 

there is quality of materials, and quality of construction.

more and more these things are becoming less apparent in some models.

 

I've played three sets of duncan designed pups and epis blew all three away.

I've had I don't know how many import single coils and humbucks in my little shop..

and epis typically sound as good as the best, if not better, and were better made, told easily by looking.

 

wire guage, magnet type, those can vary with the quality.

number of turns. pole piece material.

bottom plate metal thickness and quality..

 

people thought zebras were special but gibson just ran out of matching bezels!

 

fit to mounting rings is a common hassle, with many brands, just due to us or metric measurements.

beyond that, some just are made larger/smaller for who knows what manu. reason.

 

when you pile subjective criteria.. which as you can easily note from this thread.. is huge..

well.. it's all good for the manus, this bickering, eh?

 

[b']I'm gonna drop a name. Kent Armstrong. because I've had so many in my shop and used so many in my own kits and builds.. as well as outright custom sales.. [/b]and I've never gotten a bad set.

Is there a better pickup? I don't know what it would have except a different sound that I liked better and frankly, I don't think any of you could choose for me.

 

So as a dealer just let me say.. buy pickups! buys lots of pickups!

and have a good time!

 

 

 

 

Are you sure you are being subjective here? Sounds more like a sales pitch to me, no offense either but I have lurked this forum before and this isn't the first time you dropped the KA name. As far as Epi stock pups there is nothing wrong with them, depends on the amp we all use and at the end of the day...OUR EARS and the tone we seek. But even being subjective if you think even in your respectful ear that they sound better than Duncan wound pups... perhaps you need...

 

[Ricochet]

I've played three sets of duncan designed pups and epis blew all three away.

 

For the most part I agree with your post. Just one sidenote. From what I understand "Duncan designed" is just what it says. Designed, not made by SD. Now I happen to like real Seymour Duncans, so I just wanted to make sure you made a fair assumption.:-)

[layboomo]

"Arguing the toss about which "Vintage" PAFalike is better than another is rather a pointless discussion anyway.

It depends for a start on which example of the extremely variable originals you were trying to copy !

The nice thing today is that modern production standards and controls enable the makers with understanding to voice pickups in ways which are predictable and to offer different specs for differing tastes. If you want a "soft" sweet and open PAF with Alnico II magnets, you can buy one. If you want an overwound and cutting rocker with Alnico Vs , there are plenty of those too."

 

EXACTLY! What I object to is the notion that all GFS are great or crap simply based on where they come from and how much they cost. They got it right on some models and missed by a mile on others.....it's a case of your milage may vary.

 

" The bottom line is that we should look at products like GFS pickups as a godsend, make informed choices and don't believe all the hype. "

 

Agreed....it just doesn't make much sense to stuff a $300 custom wound set of PUP's in a $400 guitar.

[RSDx]

 

 

" The bottom line is that we should look at products like GFS pickups as a godsend' date=' make informed choices and don't believe all the hype. "

[/quote'] Definitely......and it applies to everything, not just our guitars

[Ron G]

During the process of analyzing my discontent with the sound of my guitar and ultimately choosing pickup replacement (and which pickups to use), I had to sort through a boatload of dogma, hype and arrogance (here and elsewhere) regarding such mods, and try to distill some sort of essence regarding the sound that I was looking for. The black/white, good/bad, right/wrong, etc. stuff was only an impediment to my search for knowledge. Those knowledgeable folks who tried to best describe their experiences were the most helpful to this newbie to guitar mods. Perhaps I'm guilty of overreacting to what I perceived as arrogance and dogma on the part of the original poster of this thread but I still don't like arrogance and dogma.

[Duffy]

I have used GFS parts and found them to be of good quality, like the stainless steel saddles I put on two SX strat copies, and a set of GFS Wilkinson locking tuners. I also put a bridge strat pickup in a sx '57 strat copy that make it sound great; it was a 'lil killer and was 17K and had the gain/sensitivity I needed. The strat was a tune o matic type hard tail. The highest I could raise the stock strat bridge pu was not high enough to get the right volume resulting it being the weakest sounding pup on the guitar. Rather than doing elaborate shimming or whatever to raise the pickup I decided to try a really hot bridge pup as an experiment. The 'lil killer raised up higher than the stock one and the huge level of sensitivity improvement made it the strongest pup on the strat copy. Wow! That guitar sounded great. I have since sold it but I have two SX strat copies, a '57 and a '62 and they both have some GFS parts on them, but stock pups. I might experiment with one of them and put on some GFS pups but they sound good now. My Fender '07 Hwy Ones, sss and hss, sound better but I love the SX's and might try to get some better sound out of them with some GFS pups, or some Fender ones.

 

On the other hand I have put expensive Seymour Duncan humbuckers in several guitars. Two Epi LP standards have them; one has the hot rodded JB bridge and Jazz neck, the other is a std plus top and has nickel plated covered Jb in the bridge and '59 in the neck and I can't say anything but great things about the quality of the upgrade. I got string definition when playing chords, no muddiness, clear blues leads, better smoother distortion, more gain/sensitivity, etc. I'd buy more expensive SD's anytime. But I'll try GFS stuff when I think it is in order.

 

Duffy

Winfield, Pa.

 

"Time goes by like hurricanes and much faster things" (+/-) Allman Bro's