layboomo Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 I have a '97 Joe Pass coming in a couple days and I'm wondering how the pickups are in these. It's a Samick made guitar if that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabar Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 I believe the pickup specs on higher-end Epi's changed sometime in the late 90's or early oughts. I have a '97 Broadway and a '99 Lucille, and an '01 Joe Pass with ostensibly the same humbuckers, but the '01 Joe Pass (also a Samick) pickups sound better to me. The earlier guitars don't sound bad by any means --- I haven't felt it necessary to upgrade so far --- but the Joe Pass has more clarity and seems to respond more to changes in picking, plus it has more note definition when overdriven. I'd say play it for a while with the stock pups and get used to how they sound, then decide if you like 'em or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks! I'm actually really looking forward to this guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricach Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Does anybody know how to date the Joe Pass. I have one and I think its early 90's. Would like to know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Just go here http://www.guitardaterproject.org/epiphone.aspx and plug in your serial # Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 Well got the Joe Pass today and the fit and finnish is very nice......neck and frets are super! It's in great shape and was a good deal with a new guardian hardshell case as well for $330 shipped! I'm not at all in love with the electronics though....the switch is junk as are the pots....pickups just so-so. I was either going to go full on jazzbox with this or blues/rockabilly hybrid with mods and I'm leaning towrds the latter to be honest. A pair of mean 90's, roller/rosewood bridge and a nice cast chrome tail piece to replace that cheesey gold thing. A set of chrome grovers and some nice full size pots with a switchcraft switch and I think it will be a Killer blues hybrid. I've never been big on gold parts on a blond guitar anyhow. The body is thinner on these than I expected and this guitar just wants to drag me in that direction. Am I nuckin' futz! Heres the before pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Well got the Joe Pass today and the fit and finnish is very nice......neck and frets are super! It's in great shape and was a good deal with a new guardian hardshell case as well for $330 shipped! ...snip!...and a nice cast chrome tail piece to replace that cheesey gold thing. Nice looking jazz box, layboomo! Where's that cheesy pickguard? I have a EmpII Joe Pass '95 cherry burst. I agree, that the gold hardware leaves something to be desired, and if you want to change the p_ups, cheesy tailpiece and the tuners, all this stuff is available at GFS at very reasonable prices. Their Vintage 59s come in chrome, they have a nice ES-175 style jazz cast tailpiece, and keystone tuners in chrome or the vintage greenish-yellow shade. You got a super deal on that with the case, because I paid a lot more for mine + shipping on E-B*y last year and cdn taxes at on top of that...but you can't look at just the money aspect when owning these jazz boxes.. They are "classics" as far as I'm concerned..everybit as nice the LOT more expensive Gibby ES-175. Joe Pass played an ES-175 for quite a few years and the reason that the switch was relocated was to make it similar to that model. I also have a '91 EmpII with the switch located in the cutaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Nice looking jazz box' date=' layboomo! Where's that cheesy pickguard? I have a EmpII Joe Pass '95 cherry burst. I agree, that the gold hardware leaves something to be desired, and if you want to change the p_ups, cheesy tailpiece and the tuners, all this stuff is available at GFS at very reasonable prices. Their Vintage 59s come in chrome, they have a nice ES-175 style jazz cast tailpiece, and keystone tuners in chrome or the vintage greenish-yellow shade. You got a super deal on that with the case, because I paid a lot more for mine + shipping on E-B*y last year and cdn taxes at on top of that...but you can't look at just the money aspect when owning these jazz boxes.. They are "classics" as far as I'm concerned..everybit as nice the LOT more expensive Gibby ES-175. Joe Pass played an ES-175 for quite a few years and the reason that the switch was relocated was to make it similar to that model. I also have a '91 EmpII with the switch located in the cutaway. [/quote'] Thanks and I agree they are great feeling/playing guitars.....I don't mean to be negative at all...I just want to fix a few things keeping it from being all it can be! All in all it's a very well made guitar The pickguard is MIA....doesn't really bother me though. Yeah I was looking at GFS and I like your suggestions too. The previous owner stuck the gold ABR-1 on it and it's a cheapie and the posts are too tall. I want something better there for sure. What do you think about the p-90's direction for this? Mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyelcrrt1281733995 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Everybody in jazz' early days used P-90's or Charlie Christian pickups because the humbucker hadn't been invented. Check out, say, Grant Green's albums - my personal favorite is "Am I Blue" but they're all good. Try any jazz guitarist before, 1954? was it? when the humbucker came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Everybody in jazz' early days used P-90's or Charlie Christian pickups because the humbucker hadn't been invented. Check out' date=' say, Grant Green's albums - my personal favorite is "Am I Blue" but they're all good. Try any jazz guitarist before, 1954? was it? when the humbucker came out.[/quote'] Yup I'm quite familiar with the p-90 tone of that era....my question was more about the GFS dream/mean 90's in this guitar.....Anybody put em in a jazzbox? I was also thinking about a 2 vol/master tone and a vari-tone instead of 2 vol/2tone controls while I'm at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyelcrrt1281733995 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Yup I'm quite familiar with the p-90 tone of that era....my question was more about the GFS dream/mean 90's in this guitar.....Anybody put em in a jazzbox? I was also thinking about a 2 vol/master tone and a vari-tone instead of 2 vol/2tone controls while I'm at it. Its not quite what you were asking LB' date=' but the G400 in my signature picture has a GFS Mean90 in the bridge. It is very, VERY close in tone to the factory P-90 in my Gibson SG Junior. Lacks only the last tiny bit of brightness and sparkle which is not so very bad in a jazz context. With the Charlie Christian in the neck, this guitar does very useful jazz tones when rolled about to about 5 or 6 on the tone and volume knobs, and sounds especially good blended with the Mean90. You can run them completely clean to just slightly crunch for the best results in Fender black/silverface amps. And if you like old '60s style OD tones, into my Blackheart head/Eminence 2x12, this thing is an EL84 dream come true for blues fans. It doesn't get really super clean with this setup, but from as clean as it will go up through heavy crunch and into fullblown distortion, the Mean90 is a very good sounding pickup, and its only a [i']little[/i] bit less versatile than the Charlie Christian. And then, we all know what Lennon did with the pickup as well. Here's a picture of Charlie's guitar that I always liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Thanks thats exactly what I wanted to hear garyelcrrt Athough I love the big jazzbox tones I want a bluesy growl at my disposal too....I'm gonna try a set of mean 90's I think....I also had an old Bartolini Hi-A neck pickup kickin' around in one of my parts boxes....hope I didn't sell it or trade it because that might be really cool too in this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyelcrrt1281733995 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Glad to hear it. I think you'll be pleased with it. P.S. and O.T. for those jazz fans who don't know that Charlie Christian is called "Father of the Electric Guitar", that picture in the album cover was from 1939, with Benny Goodman's Orchestra and, style of music and quality of recording aside, Charlie understood the differences between electric and acoustic guitars so instinctively that into the 50's and even 60's, good solid well-known players were directly stealing Charlie's chops because anything else they could play still sounded like strum-strum-strum. And that's your history lesson for the day. Except to add, for those who might want to know, Benny caught a lot of flak for featuring a black guitarist at a time when very few black-and-white together groups existed - though I expect Charlie probably caught just as much, if not more. Still amazes me, a white child of the 60's and 70's just how much racial harmony really does exist amongst musicians (though its not perfect, yet) and how its rarely even noticed these days, and accepted that it should be that way. Gives me hope there will be musicians in the future. Edit P.P.S. Pardon the tone, I'm a Duke fan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Yup I'm quite familiar with the p-90 tone of that era....my question was more about the GFS dream/mean 90's in this guitar.....Anybody put em in a jazzbox? I was also thinking about a 2 vol/master tone and a vari-tone instead of 2 vol/2tone controls while I'm at it. Yes, you could go with the mean 90s, since you want adjustable p-up height and the original style P90s with the dogears wouldn't be as versatile in adjusting the height. and you will need to find a balance in the height between the two p_ups. The other choice would be the P90 soapbars but that means designing and fabricating your own custom rings out of some kind of wood...walnut, but that's a lot more work than the humbucker size mean 90s. The vari-tone idea (similar to the ES-345 "Lucille" sounds intriguing. I think you can get some kind of readable schematic from some of the sites that mention schematics for guitars with varitone, but in most cases you would have to fill in some of the lines and values that have been obliterated. In any case, you would need a 6 to 8 position rotary switch and a 1.5 henry choke. The wiring is not as straightforward as a two volume-two tone setup, nor as neat, but it is do-able with a masonite jig in the shape of the lower bout and the correct hole spacing. The other possibility would be the BluesHawk Schematic..which is available on the LesPaul Forum site. This would use a 5-6 position rotary switch and the same dummy coil (1.5 henr). It's a lot easier to follow and wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Try any jazz guitarist before' date=' 1954? was it? when the humbucker came out.[/quote'] I would say somewhere around 1957, that's when they started appearing on Les Pauls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 Thanks for the input guy's ordered the parts today and I'm committed now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyelcrrt1281733995 Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Thanks for the input guy's ordered the parts today and I'm committed now ! I'm sure you'll be pleased...and always glad to spend someone else's money! :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Thanks for the input guy's ordered the parts today and I'm committed now ! Well at least you're only committed to a guitar. A couple of hundred bucks (or less) for p_ups, a 6 way switch, some vintage wire, 4 CTS pots and an optional dummy coil, and you have a "hot rodded" Emp II. It won't be exactly a Joe Pass anymore, but these archtops make a good platforms for all kinds of in-expensive experimentation. BTW, if you are going for a cap/resistor spread for the 5 way, probably best to avoid the .001uf cap value and start with the next cap value up to .047uf. I think the BluesHawk is similar in some ways to the LP and you are not going to get the treble out of a 3 inch jazz box like you would with a solid body SG type. As far as the 1.5 henry dummy coil, you could use the noise cancelling half of humbucker coil from an old humbucker, but the magnet and pole pieces need to be removed, and the resistance should be pretty close to the Mean 90s. Even then, it's only going to do a mediocre job in reducing hum. It needs to be glued in place somewhere (probably under the bridge p_up) and away from the strings as much as possible. Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 Well at least you're only committed to a guitar. A couple of hundred bucks (or less) for p_ups' date=' a 6 way switch, some vintage wire, 4 CTS pots and an optional dummy coil, and you have a "hot rodded" Emp II. It won't be exactly a Joe Pass anymore, but these archtops make a good platforms for all kinds of in-expensive experimentation. BTW, if you are going for a cap/resistor spread for the 5 way, probably best to avoid the .001uf cap value and start with the next cap value up to .047uf. I think the BluesHawk is similar in some ways to the LP and you are not going to get the treble out of a 3 inch jazz box like you would with a solid body SG type. As far as the 1.5 henry dummy coil, you could use the noise cancelling half of humbucker coil from an old humbucker, but the magnet and pole pieces need to be removed, and the resistance should be pretty close to the Mean 90s. Even then, it's only going to do a mediocre job in reducing hum. It needs to be glued in place somewhere (probably under the bridge p_up) and away from the strings as much as possible. Keep us posted.[/quote'] Actually the neck pickup is reverse wound so I'll get the hum cancelling in the middle position and the mean 90's are pretty well shielded too....really not bad as far as this style pickup goes. I've been rethinking the vari-tone for a couple of reasons. I don't want to go the dummy coil route. .. and I had a blues hawk and only really ever used one setting beside the standard setup. I'm not looking for solid body type tones out of this at all....more of a neck/ warm tone and what I'll more than likely do is a second value tone cap on a push/pull pot for the neck pup tone pot. I've done that in the past on some other guitars and I like it very much. We'll see still time to get myself in trouble before the parts show up : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shartom Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 I bought my Joe Pass about a year ago and have been pleased with it. It would be interesting to hear what it sounds like with P90 pickups. I have a 56 Gold top reissue with P90's and it is a great guitar. It is worth while playing a guitar for a few months before making the decision to do a total rebuild. Robin Ford made that statement in Vintage guitar magazine and I totally agree. I have spent a lot of time tweaking the pickups, setting the action and polishing my Joe. It seems to responde to the TLC, in fact I am using it on a gig tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Actually the neck pickup is reverse wound so I'll get the hum cancelling in the middle position and the mean 90's are pretty well shielded too....really not bad as far as this style pickup goes. I've been rethinking the vari-tone for a couple of reasons...snip!.. and what I'll more than likely do is a second value tone cap on a push/pull pot for the neck pup tone pot. I've done that in the past on some other guitars and I like it very much. I didn't know that the (GFS Mean 90? NECK) was reversewound. It doesn't mention that in the on-line description, but that makes a lot more sense than adding a dummy coil, except that you may pickup a bit more hum (in certain noisy conditions) when the 3-way is not in the mid position. As far as the push-pull tone caps, I have mine installed on the tone controls and use .022uf in the up and .047uf in the down position with the Vintage 59s. There is a slight difference when you pull up on the tone pot, but you need to adjust the tone in any case to get the tone you are looking for. This is a pretty simple mod compared to a 5 way or 6 way tone filter switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 I bought my Joe Pass about a year ago and have been pleased with it. It would be interesting to hear what it sounds like with P90 pickups. I have a 56 Gold top reissue with P90's and it is a great guitar.It is worth while playing a guitar for a few months before making the decision to do a total rebuild. Robin Ford made that statement in Vintage guitar magazine and I totally agree. I have spent a lot of time tweaking the pickups' date=' setting the action and polishing my Joe. It seems to responde to the TLC, in fact I am using it on a gig tomorrow. [/quote'] Yeah thats very good advice...but I bought this with the intent of modding it a bit to be honest. I'm sure it would suit alot of players stock...I just wanted something a little different from the rest. I'm a little diseased that way! : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Actually the neck pickup is reverse wound so I'll get the hum cancelling in the middle position and the mean 90's are pretty well shielded too....really not bad as far as this style pickup goes. Right you are. I just got word back from Jay that his Mean 90 p_ups are RWRP for the Neck, so that opens up a lot of possibilities for retrofits with these SC types of pickups. With the shielding available, the standalone for the neck shouldn't present too much of a problem, unless you have dimmers or florescent lights in the immediate vicinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted April 1, 2008 Author Share Posted April 1, 2008 Well she's finished...forgot what a pain in the *** wiring hollowbodies is ! The Mean 90's Really sound great! The Neck tones are flat out great. I'm quite happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Well she's finished...forgot what a pain in the *** wiring hollowbodies is ! The Mean 90's Really sound great! The Neck tones are flat out great. [endquote] It looks great. Well even if they are a bit of a bear to wire up, it's well worth the effort. The GFS jazz style tailpiece looks real good too. I'm thinking of replacing both of mine on the Emp IIs I'm not that crazy about the standard issue tp, because it falls off unless there is tension on it when restringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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