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the question about the material of guitar


wwzz888

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One year ago i saw some of the guitar’s material was Mahogany/adler which model is Les Paul on the Epiphone's web . But now i see it’s material is Mahogany(it's seems to be of the guitar's material is Mahogany now which model is Les Paul ). i want to konow is the material become to the pure Mahogany now which model is Les Paul? when ? and a pure Mahogany les paul If I buy what I have to look at the factory date? i dont want to buy a Mahogany/adler les paul

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This is one of those questions that is difficult to answer definitively because Epiphone hasn't answered it definitively. Different descriptions say different things at different times. It was once thought that the Plus tops were mahogany/alder and the plain tops were all mahogany because of Epiphone's descriptions. Now they both usually state that they are "solid mahogany," so it is assumed that alder is no longer used.

 

So was the old "mahogany/alder" description a mistake or have they changed their materials? I don't think anyone knows the answer to that because Epiphone has never come out and cleared that up. But for now, in my opinion, if it is anything BUT solid mahogany it is fraudulent, because I called Gibson/Epiphone customer service and had their rep confirm to me that the guitar I bought was solid mahogany before I bought it. (I bought an Ebony Plain Top)

 

(Of course, "solid" mahogany doesn't really mean solid any more because of weight-relieving and chambering, but that's a whole different subject. :-# )

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A small point' date=' but it's "alder." Adler was a harmonica player.[/quote']

 

Good one..ha-ha! Didn't we have this discussion on a thread a while back. What is "pure"

mahogany these days anyway...very few guitars have the good Honduras variety..the tone

wood and neck wood of choice. The mahogany nowdays can be african or even luan.

And what's wrong with alder? If it's good enough for Strats, it should be good enough for

"some" LPs.

 

Of course, it's only Michigan fiddle back maple ..er Canadian flamed maple for me and my

project LP...no wonder somebody recently paid 4 million Russian rubles (or was that $US) for a

1740 Guseppe Guileine violin...andd it wasn't even a Strat--stradivarius.

Something to be said about those traditional tonewoods.

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So was the old "mahogany/alder" description a mistake or have they changed their materials?

......

(Of course' date=' "solid" mahogany doesn't really mean solid any more because of weight-relieving and chambering, but that's a whole different subject. :-# ) [/quote']

 

I've heard the explanation that they used alder in the description "to reserve the right to use alder if mahogany was not readily available at the moment of the manufacture of the guitar" etc. By mahogany they of course mean Lauan, the non-mahogany Philippine wood.

 

It's a miracle no one has sued the instrument makers over the ambiguous material descriptions.

 

And as far as I know, Epiphone LPs do not have any weight relief holes or chambering (excluding the Ultras).

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And as far as I know' date=' Epiphone LPs do not have any weight relief holes or chamering (excluding the Ultras).

[/quote']

 

You got that right Biff. My Epi LP (ebony) weighs in at 10lbs, center core is a possibly luan with some

type of "skin" on it.

 

I'm currently fighting a losing battle to keep the weight down on my project and it ain't easy.

The 3/4 inch carved flamed maple top and the 1/4 inch flamed maple back add considerable weight.

I've had to resort to tupelo, a light wood similar balsa, but better, as the filler core.

I've also had to drill 1 inch holes in areas that won't affect the tone or

sustain on the walnut neck/block. With p_ups and hardware it's about 9.5lbs.

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On the program "Some Assembly Required" they showed Gibson Les Paul guitars being made. The body on a Gibson is 3 (yes, three) pieces of mahogany joined together. My Epi Lp Custom is also 3 pieces of mahogany; you can see the jointing in the wood along the edge on either side of the bottom strap peg. My Epi also has a thin veneer flame top the thickness of which is visible with the pickups out. I can't tell the thickness of the back, but it seems to be veneer and the jointing is hidden by the binding.

 

Being an amateur woodworker, I can tell you that a properly joined piece of wood is stronger than the rest of the plank. As to whether jointing affects tone as opposed to a single, large piece of wood is another question. My sound is the envy of other guitar players that hear me play, so I'm happy.

 

I played my Gibby LP Studio yesterday and the first thing I noticed was that it felt lighter than my Epi LP. I guess there's a difference in density of the mahogany. They both sound great and have equally good sustain, though.

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Check this out Dan' date=' how about guitars made of an IKEA table top...! :)

http://www.zacharyguitars.com/120300pics.htm

 

 

OMG...ROTFLOL! =D>

 

Edit: Not that I haven't seen it before, or done it myself. Tabletops, benches, and toilet seats have all been used to good effect. But to use a household name like IKEA. What would the American equivalent be? Walmart?

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Check this out Dan' date=' how about guitars made of an IKEA table top...! =D>

[[/quote']

 

No thanks! I don't like pine knots in my guitars, although he got it down to 6lbs!

If everybody starts making these things out of plywood/table tops for $1500,

imagine how much a real Gibson or Epiphone LP will be worth in the future.

 

Mind you... if I could find a piece of 2 inch Sitka spruce, a superb tone wood and choice

for expensive flattops/classicals and violins, I would be tempted to make #2 out of S

itka spruce wings instead of flamed maple...who knows what kind of tone might come

from that combo?

Depending on how this one turns out tone wise, I may make one more,

a 3 inch thick semi-acoustic LP type with walnut neck/tone block for next winters project.

I saw Lindsay Buckingham (formerly with Fleetwood Mac)play one of

these custom made , 3 inch thick LP shaped, with a sharp florentine cutaway

and f-holes on the hollow wings.

 

It's a LOT of work and machining, but

I can appreciate a bit better now what Gibson charges for their LPs.

I'm currently estimating about 200hrs + on mine. I will post a pic

when the wings are glued onto the tone block..sometime in the

next week or two.

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.... I can tell you that a properly joined piece of wood is stronger than the rest of the plank. As to whether jointing affects tone as opposed to a single' date=' large piece of wood is another question.

 

I played my Gibby LP Studio yesterday and the first thing I noticed was that it felt lighter than my Epi LP. I guess there's a difference in density of the mahogany. They both sound great and have equally good sustain, though.

[/quote']

 

I agree that a properly joined piece of wood is stronger than the rest of the wood, but NOT if it's endgrain to

endgrain..that is a weakest joint a wood worker can make. Fingerjoints or mitred on angle with the grain is

a much stronger joint and carries resonance better. Now as far as a mortise/tenon joint, that is a very

strong joint as long as there are no air gaps and the glue seam is as thin as possible. My experiment is

a one piece neck/tone block made out of black walnut. No glue joints where it counts. Of course I'm had to

cut out 3/4 slots in the tone block where the P-ups fit, but the bridge area is solid. It's an experiment

in tone/sustain and I got my inspiration from the LP Spotlight Special.

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My Epi LP (ebony) weighs in at 10lbs' date=' center core is a possibly luan with some

type of "skin" on it.[/quote']

 

Mine (same type/color, 2007) is only nine! I'm actually a little jealous, because for me the heavier the better (usually) in terms of my tonal preferences.

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Mine (same type/color' date=' 2007) is only nine! I'm actually a little jealous, because for me the heavier the better (usually) in terms of my tonal preferences. [/quote']

 

Well you may be right there, depending on how you weighed it.

I'm using round dial fish scale and it tends to "exaggerate" slightly,

like all the fish stories we have heard. :-)

 

However, it will suffice for a A vs B weight comparison against my

custom made LP type.

 

As far as weight, I don't think it has a lot to do with the tone..

although there are Strat people out there that may

beg to differ with bolt on necks on solid bodies(maple/alder) or whatever.

 

With the LP Ultra, it's obvious that as long as the bridge

and stop piece are in solid wood (mahogany or even "chromalyte"/balsa,

the rest of it could have as many weight relief holes as swiss cheese and still sound good. From the

nut to the bridge it has to be solid as possible.

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I was a lot more concerned over the material / construction of my guitars when I was spending a grand or more on each.

 

For what I spend on an Epiphone, as long as the guitar sounds & feels right to me, it's more or less a non-issue.

 

Unconventional materials have been used in guitars for years (Dan Armstrong, Travis Bean, Parker). For that matter, didn't Brian May and his father build his guitar out of an old fireplace mantlepiece?

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I'm building a body out of an old set of mahogany chairs.

the backs and seats were padded and wore out.. but the legs arms braces. etc. were all perfect.

I already scabbed the rollers off for a couple of homemade cabs.

 

genuine american mahogany.. stable and straight.. great grain and color.. free at your local junk furniture store or grandmas

junk pile.

 

tone? you bet. it's hardwood. it's tonewood. it's been kept indoors for twenty ears!

a lot of 1 1/2" square sticks.. who knows.. I may leave it unpainted just to tweak the snobs!

 

TWANG

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genuine american mahogany.. stable and straight.. great grain and color.. free at your local junk furniture store or grandmas junk pile.TWANG

 

What part of America did that mahogany grow in ? I know that F*nd*r was experimenting

with injecting dye into some trees that they were growing somewhere in South America,

but that venture turned out to be not too successful.

 

kept indoors for twenty ears? =D>

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You're kidding right?

 

Nope, not kidding. Fender actually injected growing beech trees with dye and called the harvested wood "Wildwood." It was used on Coronado models and acoustics.

 

I've not weighed either, but my Epi Les Paul Custom is considerably lighter than my 95 Les Paul Standard. You can see center seam on the top of my Custom, which looks like just two pieces, but being white I can't tell how many pieces the back is. I figure the back is veneered and the sides are opaque. So no dice there. My Gibby is definitely one piece back, but it's older.

 

What models were Gibson shown using three piece bodies on? These are three piece backs? I know a lot of people were disappointed when Classics started showing up with center joined two piece backs. Standards, to my knowledge, have remained one piece, but are now chambered. I saw a press release for a "Les Paul Traditional" which are supposed to be going back to the old "swiss cheese" weight relief. Wonder if it's those?

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You're kidding right?

 

No, they were actually serious about it. It was in the mid-sixties (I think) when

they tried it. They were called WILDWOOD flattops. Funky colours that were

the result of injecting dyes into the tree. They discontinued them in the early 70s.

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