Notes_Norton Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 I had some business in Miami, and as usual I stopped at a few music stores. This time I stopped in Sam Ash in Margate and Sam Ash in Miami (Florida). Basically I was looking to try a used BluesHawk or something else I haven't put my hands on. Mostly they had the run-of-the-mill Fenders, Gibsons, Epiphones, Ibanezes, ESPs, and everything else you see in most big box stores. In the Epiphone section of BOTH stores, there was a Natural finish Casino. In both stores the top veneer wood of the guitars were actually gray-ish, not the nice honey-colored wood on my Casino and all the other NATs I've seen. The binding was also gray-ish so it didn't stand out at all. A very dull looking guitar. Has anyone else noticed this? Is this a trend or did Sam Ash just get a bad shipment of these guitars? If I were Epi, I wouldn't let a guitar like this out of the factory, I'd put some red or other color stain on it to liven it up a bit (of course, others might like the gray-ish wood). Just curious......... Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafaelh Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Might not be the case here but the "Natural" finish Chinese made Casinos are allot brighter then the Korean made. Korean made have that vintage tint...or at least the ones I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Hope this isn't the case for all Casinos, I have ordered two new ones and waiting for them to arrive...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Sounds like they are still having problems then. I live in the Chicago area. The early Chinese ones I saw at Sam Ash and GC all had a real yellowish tint to the naturals and no figuring on the top ply. There was some but not a lot from a distance it looked like just a solid yellowed piece of wood with no grain in it. Loose screws, pole pieces all different levels pretty much a problem with all the early ones I looked at. The ones they have now at GC and Sam Ash look feel and play well, I wonder if the stores have shipped some of their stock around? You are right though I would not have let the early Chinese Casinos I saw out the door. A lot of places on line also sell the early Chinese bursts which have too much black on them as seconds. The one local store I shop at ordered a few to go with their Elitist and JLs and they showed up with the bad burst paint so the store called their EIP rep who agreed and sent them back. I thought the early Chinese ones had more of a yellow to the finish. My MIK has a pretty clear coat to it with nice brown grain in the top ply. Both my burst and natural came from the I plant which I think off hand is the Saen plant. I have not seen a new MIK Casino in over a year now. Everything at Sam Ash and GC is all China on the Casinos anyway. G400s are a mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Hmmmmm....Well, that makes the Elitist versions, more and more appealing...even with the cost differential. Also, the Elitist Casino's are (from the ones I've seen, anyway) much closer in body shape, and neck joint location, than the others. Some may not care, but to others, that accuracy could be a deciding factor, as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 Perhaps Sam Ash got a bad shipment. I saw a Casino in George's Music (small chain of big box stores) and it looked fine. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epinder Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Sounds like they are still having problems then. I live in the Chicago area. The early Chinese ones I saw at Sam Ash and GC all had a real yellowish tint to the naturals and no figuring on the top ply. There was some but not a lot from a distance it looked like just a solid yellowed piece of wood with no grain in it. Loose screws' date=' pole pieces all different levels pretty much a problem with all the early ones I looked at. [/quote'] byrds1965: I see your from Wheaton. I'm originally from Glen Ellyn. We moved to AZ a couple of years ago. How's the weather? Still have snow on the ground? Just kidding. Great area to live. I miss GE very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Bob I know what you mean, as I had that impression recently when buying my casino....the current natural finish looked, sort of bland. I ended up buying a VS with nice grain and which was much more interesting! Have a good'n Dig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 Bob, I've checked out a lot of natural Casinos (both before and after I got mine), and I've never seen any that have the color and grain that ours do... Before you got your Casino, I thought mine was the only one that had any character at all... Kinda feels good sometimes when I see a natural Casino, and can say "nope... not prettier than mine!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted April 16, 2008 Author Share Posted April 16, 2008 <...>Kinda feels good sometimes when I see a natural Casino' date=' and can say "nope... not prettier than mine!"[/quote'] True, it's nice to know when you got a good deal, but on the other hand, I feel sorry for the guys who have the dull ones. Sure they will probably play as well, but they aren't going to get as much pleasure looking at them. I've seen a few other nice ones, one in George's and when I bought my Casino at GC, there was a new one there that had that honey color as well. It wasn't until I saw these two recent Sam Ash Casinos, that I realized that they all didn't look that good. If I were Epi, I'd save all the good ones to be NATs and stain all the rest. But then, I'm not Epi and I have no idea of all the other things that make up their decisions. I'd rather have a red or even a sunburst than those gray-ish Casinos I saw this week. BTW, I really like the red, but I'm glad I got the Natural. Again, I got real lucky on that deal. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfrets Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 With the Chinese Epis, I've found that the quality depends greatly on which plant they're made in. I've yet to find a DW that wasn't a complete POS, but I'm mightily impressed with my EE LP. Do you know which factory built the "fuglies" you found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted April 16, 2008 Share Posted April 16, 2008 The good looking Casinos I have seen out now in Sam Ash and GC are both EEs. I have yet to see anything marked DW. My bandmate bought a natural finish Dot about 6 months ago and it is an EE. It has kind of the same dull yellow finish with no real grain showing in the top ply. When he puts it in the stand in the basement where we pratice from a distance it just looks solid and yellow. Very strange looking. He also bought a new natural Casino which is also an EE and it has the same clear coat mine has instead of the yellowish tinge to it. We have of course compared ours and there is no real difference. The only thing on his is that the trapeeze seems to be a slightly smaller gauge of steel. He is more of a tone guy than an apperance guy and he is happy. Build quality on both seem the same as my MIK's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Here is a good example from ebay of the early ones I saw. Looks like my bandmates Dot. http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-EPIPHONE-CASINO-Natural-Electric-Guitar_W0QQitemZ110242447036QQihZ001QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acousticworship Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Wow, almost looks like a light colored Goldtop. Definitely not the same as my 06 Peerless made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted April 17, 2008 Author Share Posted April 17, 2008 Here is a good example from ebay of the early ones I saw.<...> Yep, that's pretty much what I saw in Sam Ash. Except it actually looks a little better in the pictures. When I was in Sam Ash, I didn't think to see what factory they were made in. Everybody has their own personal taste (I am not fond of sunburst and don't care for the flame top as the seam down the middle disturbs me), so I suspect that there are people who would prefer the duller, grayer finish. It's just not my cup of tea. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysander Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Wow, that is one UGLY Casino! Not at all like the Chinese one I saw here in town. If they sold them as seconds (thirds?), it might be cool to pick one up and get out the day-glo paint. If it played well and sounded good -- which, considering the state of the finish, is not a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Here is a good example from ebay of the early ones I saw. Looks like my bandmates Dot. http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-EPIPHONE-CASINO-Natural-Electric-Guitar_W0QQitemZ110242447036QQihZ001QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The interesting thing is, most of the photos look like they were taken in florescent light, which gives a much cooler rendition (sometimes "greenish"), but one photo, of the top of the headstock, looks to be shot with "flash," and it's a lot warmer (rendering a more natural color to the wood), than the others. So it may not be as "ugly" a color as it looks, in the photos. A lot depends on "lighting," and what the camera is set for ("white balanced" for...in the case of digital cameras). Also...the serial numbrer appears to begin with EE, which would make it a Quing Dao manufactured Casino. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Also, worth mentioning...the lighting in Guitar Center, and other such stores can be (color wise) pretty bad! Sometimes quite "greenish" or "blueish!" So...If color is critical, one might ask to take it outside, or at least near a non-tinted window, with daylight, to better judge the actual color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 I've discovered in my experiments photographing my own guitars that the type of lighting can make a very big difference, but that Casino had no grain character at all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Yeah, that's pretty sad, for sure! Why would anyone let that plain of a top out of the factory? Even the "bursts" (generally) have more grain in them, than that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfrets Posted April 17, 2008 Share Posted April 17, 2008 Also' date=' worth mentioning...the lighting in Guitar Center, and other such stores can be (color wise) pretty bad!Sometimes quite "greenish" or "blueish!" So...If color is critical, one might ask to take it outside, or at least near a non-tinted window, with daylight, to better judge the actual color. [/quote'] That's a FACT! When I bought my last LP (in February), I was looking for a honeyburst. But we've seen how much that finish can vary in definition from guitar to guitar. I wanted the one that's almost "iced tea" color. Found a few plain-tops with that finish, but I wanted the plus top as well. Finally found one at GC that played beautifully ('07 EE). Looking it over, I thought "it IS a nice finish, but not exactly like I pictured it." I liked it alot, so I bought it. When I went to put it in the trunk of my car, of course I just had to open the case and admire my aquisition. Man! When the sunlight hit it, I was blown away. Yeah, I know it's just a veneer, but the "flame" in the maple stood out so strikingly, it looked like you could've fallen into it and the color looked more like a beautifully faded cherry than the amber / brown I expected. Indoors, it has the warm "tea" color I wanted in the first place. I'm enjoying the hell out of it, and for what it is, I'm very impressed. Not only is GC's lighting not gonna help you get an accurate idea of the real color of a guitar, it isn't very flattering either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 <...snip...>Not only is GC's lighting not gonna help you get an accurate idea of the real color of a guitar' date=' it isn't very flattering either. [/quote'] Hmmm. To think a big box chain like that doesn't know about lighting. I once knew a woman who managed a small, women's clothing store. She was very particular about the kind of lights she bought for the store. The lights had to compliment the colors of the clothing. You would think a guitar store would know the same thing. I would guess that most guitarists are pretty fussy about the way their guitars look. After all, posting pictures in guitar forums seems to be the rule, unlike the sax or wind synth forums I visit where a photo is a rarity. So I would guess that the guitar store (like the clothing store) would sell more inventory if they invested in good lighting. Whether it would offset the additional cost of the lighting is something that I don't know. The two bland Casinos I saw were both in Sam Ash stores. I bought my present Casino in GC (West Palm Beach FL) and it looked good in the store. At that time I also looked at a Casino in Georges (small chain) and it looked good. On the other hand, I think the Sam Ash Casinos were just extremely bland. Even if the color was distorted by the lights, there was very little wood grain on the guitars. If I go back, I'll take them to the window to check them out. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Well, some stores probably Do pay attention to lighting. As you mentioned, it's in their best interest to do so. On the other hand, "lights are lights," to some "less educated" folks, and as long as it's not (too) dark...it's "good enough!" I've been in stores, where the "Acoustic guitar" rooms, which are sealed off for sound, have Tungsten (3200 degrees/Kelvin "warm") lighting, and wood floors and walls, to go with that "home by the fireplace" ambience, and the neighboring electric guitar room has small bluish ("daylight"5600 degrees/Kelvin) balanced bulbs high in the ceilings...if you're lucky. The next room (keyboards) was florescent...2700 to 5000 d/K "bright white!" Which, is probably not as critical, as that for guitars, and their color or natural finishes. Anyway...our eyes/minds adapt, so it's not always easy to spot the differences, when you've been in those rooms, for a few minutes. I'm just saying if color is critical, go outside or by an untinted window, to make those evaluations, providing of course you're allowed that luxury, and there isn't some major brightly color painted wall near by, reflecting that color, to skew the accuracy. If you don't care, all that much, not to worry. Cheers, CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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