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New, curious Epiphone Casino sighting in some very old video footage on a DVD I rented


Notes_Norton

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Hi y'all,

 

Although I don't watch any regular TV (no cable - no antenna - no reception), Leilani and I do rent some DVDs from Netflix.

 

A few nights ago we watched You're Gonna Miss Me : A Film About Roky Erickson. It's a sad story about "the most influential rock legend you never heard of", Rocky Erickson of the 13th Floor Elevators.

 

I recall covering an Elevators song back in the day of Psychedelic Music (a term supposedly coined by Roky), but I had no idea he had such an influence on people like Billy Gibbons, Janis Joplin, Patti Smith and others.

 

If you never heard of the movie, here is the Amazon Link, although I recommend renting it instead of buying it if you can.

 

Anyway, during some of the too short and too grainy clips of the Elevators "back in the day", those P90 pickups were evident. I definitely spied a Casino and a Gibson ES-330 plus another strange guitar -

1) definitely Casino shaped,

2) definitely P90 pickups,

3) a Bigsby and

4) a definite Epiphone headstock.

The weird thing (to me) about it is the headstock had the white outlines like a Sherry, but no "tree of life" or any other inlay in the headstock other than the Epiphone logo. Anybody have any clue on that?

 

Anyway, I enjoyed the flick, got a kick out of seeing the Casinos and ES330s, was saddened by Roky's life and admired his brother for his heroic efforts to help him.

 

Notes

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Weird stuff like that happened from time to time... strange variations that no-one can explain. Similar thing with ES-335s; most have fingerboard binding but some didn't. I would guess that maybe they tried to fancy up the Casino with a bit of headstock trim at one time... or else it was just a trick of the light or whatever restoration process may have been used on the film.

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Bob, that's a strange one. I've Googled his website, the "Thirteenth Floor Elevator" website,

Tried "vintage Epiphone" traces, and there's none like it, to be seen...as of yet, anyway.

Let us know, if/when you find out, exactly what it is. It looks to be like a Casino, but almost

seems like the neck joint, is more like a Riviera (hard to tell, though), and the position markers

seemed "larger" than a Casino's, too. But, you're right...there's no "vine" inlay, so it's not a

"Sheri." I wonder if it was an early "Riviera" with P-90's...or did they ever make one, like that?

It's a mystery, for sure!

 

CB

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...a definite Epiphone headstock.

The weird thing (to me) about it is the headstock had the white outlines like a Sherry' date=' but no "tree of life" or any other inlay in the headstock other than the Epiphone logo. Anybody have any clue on that?[/b']

 

 

13th.jpg

 

There are two different guitars, the top one is the other guitarist's Casino (no Bigsby). The bottom photo shows the guitar with the binding on the headstock that you mentioned. I didn't see a Good close-up of the body on the clip I found.

 

Judging by the black pickguard, I think the top guitar is a Gibson ES-330. The bottom guitar is definitely an Epiphone, white pickguard and you can see the epsilon on the truss rod cover.

 

13thE.jpg

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There's not a good close up in the movie either, and it zips by very quickly. But after recognizing the Casino, that headstock really caught my eye.

 

There's another all NAT Casino in the movie as well and a 330 in the movie with the standard Gibson headstock as well.

 

Some other guitars as well, but since I own both a Casino and 330, they definitely caught my eye.

 

Anybody else see the movie?

 

Notes

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Hi y'all' date='

 

Although I don't watch any regular TV (no cable - no antenna - no reception), Leilani and I do rent some DVDs from Netflix.

 

A few nights ago we watched [i']You're Gonna Miss Me : A Film About Roky Erickson[/i]. It's a sad story about "the most influential rock legend you never heard of", Rocky Erickson of the 13th Floor Elevators.

 

I recall covering an Elevators song back in the day of Psychedelic Music (a term supposedly coined by Roky), but I had no idea he had such an influence on people like Billy Gibbons, Janis Joplin, Patti Smith and others.

 

If you never heard of the movie, here is the Amazon Link, although I recommend renting it instead of buying it if you can.

 

Anyway, during some of the too short and too grainy clips of the Elevators "back in the day", those P90 pickups were evident. I definitely spied a Casino and a Gibson ES-330 plus another strange guitar -

1) definitely Casino shaped,

2) definitely P90 pickups,

3) a Bigsby and

4) a definite Epiphone headstock.

The weird thing (to me) about it is the headstock had the white outlines like a Sherry, but no "tree of life" or any other inlay in the headstock other than the Epiphone logo. Anybody have any clue on that?

 

Anyway, I enjoyed the flick, got a kick out of seeing the Casinos and ES330s, was saddened by Roky's life and admired his brother for his heroic efforts to help him.

 

Notes

Ah yes, the good old 13th Floor Elevators, not one of my favorites of that era, but interesting nonetheless.
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THANX!

 

Notes

 

Bound headstocks did happen from time to time even on the mid/lower end models such as the Casino whether as a course of manufacture or by special request. Stevie Ray Vaughn played a Riviera with such a bound headstock. Jerry is correct about there being two different guitars' date=' an ES-330 (?) and a Casino though like the Casino, the pickguard beveling suggests a more-ornate model than the ES-330. I've collected the "Nuggets" series of recording compilations going back to the original in the early 70's and I also own a copy of "The Psychedelic Sounds of The Thirteenth Floor Elevators" on some small regional Texas label (with a strange, almost home-made, bootleg looking mimeographed cover-not the " psychedelic eye ball "cover of the later major label release which I also have ) so yeah, I've been aware of the Elevators for some time though it seems like every region n that era had that one proto-psychedelic band (Ours in this area was "? and The Mysterians") who claim to have started the genre...there were also the Blues Magoos and The Standells and Bubble Puppy and The Electric Prunes and on an on...I'm rather fond of this era because it's when it all kind of started for me...I'd like to check out that film but I'm not paying $20+ for it...I didn't like that era [i']that[/i] much.

 

...and one of the Elevators' songs, "Monkey Island" I believe was covered by the J.Geils Band/Peter Wolf in the late 70's

 

...and Al's your uncle.

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Yeah, I just noticed that Beveling on the pickguard too, from the above photos.

It does seem to be a Casino, in all other aspects, beside the

fancier pickguard and bound headstock. Very interesting. Makes one wonder

if he special ordered it, or if it was in fact a production model, and...if so, what year?

Be nice if CS (since we know they monitor our posts) would chime in here, and give

us the scoop!

 

CB

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<...> it seems like every region n that era had that one proto-psychedelic band (Ours in this area was "? and The Mysterians") who claim to have started the genre<...>

...and Al's your uncle.

 

I was based out of Bay City about the time "? and the Mysterians" were coming up. I don't remember their names, but they were a group of Mexican gentlemen, and the name was to eliminate anti-Latino bias. You might also remember Terry Knight and the Pack who later became Grand Funk Railroad without Terry.

 

We were doing warm ups for Quite a few headliners back then from Chicago to Detroit, our manager's lawyers were negotiating with Motown, but the deal fell apart over money. It was a very fun part of my life.

 

I was playing mostly sax, some bass, and some keyboard at the time. When I played bass the bassist played second guitar. So I didn't know much about guitar models back then. I do remember covering "Psychotic Reaction" on the Farfisa, playing the psychedelic part with my foot, it was 100% B.S. but the audience loved it. We played music, had our pick of the girls, and they actually paid us for that!!!

 

Notes

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Makes one wonder

if he special ordered it' date=' or if it was in fact a production model, and...if so, what year?

Be nice if CS (since we know they monitor our posts) would chime in here, and give

us the scoop![/quote']

 

If it's not in the current Epiphone catalog, fat chance..

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I think ?'s name was Martinez.

 

Could have been. It's been so long I really don't remember (it was the '60s after all).

 

I do remember they were capable musicians, and they played everything quite fast. A DJ in Flint MI supposedly owned a piece of them and played "96 Tears" until it broke into a regional hit. The rest is as they say, "history".

 

We rubbed shoulders with a lot of bands back then, some of them went on to the big time, most didn't. The level of talent was really hight back then. I really thought we were headed there, and of course I think we should have been, but our lawyers blew the deal. I can't blame them though, I'm sure they did better than we could have, we were just kids at the time.

 

Notes

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The level of talent was really hight back then. I really thought we were headed there' date=' and of course I think we should have been, but our lawyers blew the deal. I can't blame them though, I'm sure they did better than we could have, we were just kids at the time. Notes[/quote']

 

Yeah, I was in a band, in the late 60's that had that potential, too! Only in our case,

a couple of the guys, became more fascinated with "drugs" than music (very

unfortunate, in lots of ways, because they were both very talented musicians), and

that problem eventually led to the breakup of the band! In fact, I almost lost my Casino, too

...due to someone "borrowing it" who was going to sell it, to get "high!"

I have, to this day, never forgiven "Drugs" for that! I have, forgiven the guys,

for sure...but never what drugs did to them, and our "chance!" But, "C'est La Vie!"

 

CB

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I was living in Lansing, Michigan in the late 70's and sharing a house with three guys from Clio, Michigan. One of those guys was Mark Farner's cousin. I knew all their buddies from Clio and that's where Rudy (Question Mark) Martinez lived and continues to live. They all knew Rudy and had lots of stories of his odd and eccentric behavior. He was described as a nice guy but a nut.

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...and one of the Elevators' songs' date=' "Monkey Island" I believe was covered by the J.Geils Band/Peter Wolf in the late 70's

 

[/quote']

 

The J. Geils Band (who briefly changed their name to "Geils") did indeed record a song called "Monkey Island" (from the album by the same name), but it was not a cover of the Elevators' "Monkey Island"..

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The J. Geils Band (who briefly changed their name to "Geils") did indeed record a song called "Monkey Island" (from the album by the same name)' date=' but it was not a cover of the Elevators' "Monkey Island"..

 

[/quote']

Thanx for that. Some band did cover the song but the J Geils song is the only hit my search turned up. I recall the cover and Geils song didn't seem like who it was (it was very punk-y and the Geils Band song was the "there is no life on monkey island thing now that I think about it...which I always took to mean Manhattan Island ) but I'll keep looking. Thanx again.

 

 

...and Al's your uncle

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No problem.. I'm not a big J. Geils Band fan' date=' but I've always loved that song... In fact, that whole album is underrated.. I think it got panned for being a departure from their usual R&B/Boogie/Party-band style at the time..[/quote']

I was a huge J Geils fan in the early 70's and was even at one of the shows they culled for "Live Full House"...it's funny that it came up because we were recently discussing possible new covers to do and some of those like "Homework", Hard Drivin' Man" and "Serves You Right To Suffer" came up...but by '76/'77 when Geil's Monkey Island came out I'd moved on to a pretentious "Jazz Rock Fusion" thing playing long, drawn-out improv things in an eight piece band (loud "elevator" music when you think about it lol) and I was going through a dismissing main stream rock as irrelevant thing (which lasted for about a year until I then again returned to my senses lol)... My band was called "Ground Zero" and in the early 90's my son heard an old recording of ours and said "sweet" and got his jazz-oriented band to cover it calling it "Ground Zero" (our song was called "Pulse" but the cassette box said "Ground Zero" so...) which flattered me but my son's band was a lot better than what we had going on and they did the original very proud with their cover...After 9/11 "ground zero" came to mean something else but I was still pretty proud of that song and that band though admittedly we were a bunch of pretentious snobs who'd have been laughed at by really good jazz players... anyway I did like Geil's Monkey Island as well...It's going to drive me crazy about the Thirteenth Floor Elevator cover though...and I think I seem to recall hearing it on Dr. Demento of all places...anyway...thanx again.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

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I was a huge J Geils fan in the early 70's and was even at one of the shows they culled for "Live Full House"...it's funny that it came up because we were recently discussing possible new covers to do and some of those like "Homework"' date=' Hard Drivin' Man" and "Serves You Right To Suffer" came up...but by '76/'77 when Geil's Monkey Island came out I'd moved on to a pretentious "Jazz Rock Fusion" thing playing long, drawn-out improv things in an eight piece band (loud "elevator" music when you think about it lol) and I was going through a dismissing main stream rock as irrelevant thing (which lasted for about a year until I then again returned to my senses lol)... My band was called "Ground Zero" and in the early 90's my son heard an old recording of ours and said "sweet" and got his jazz-oriented band to cover it calling it "Ground Zero" (our song was called "Pulse" but the cassette box said "Ground Zero" so...) which flattered me but my son's band was a lot better than what we had going on and they did the original very proud with their cover...After 9/11 "ground zero" came to mean something else but I was still pretty proud of that song and that band though admittedly we were a bunch of pretentious snobs who'd have been laughed at by really good jazz players... anyway I did like Geil's Monkey Island as well...It's going to drive me crazy about the Thirteenth Floor Elevator cover though...and I think I seem to recall hearing it on Dr. Demento of all places...anyway...thanx again.

 

...and Al's your uncle.[/quote']Dr Demento, lot's of cool stuff, Hello Mudder, hello Fadder.....

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Dr Demento' date=' lot's of cool stuff, Hello Mudder, hello Fadder.....[/quote']

 

"I'm looking over, my dead dog rover....that I hit with the power mower"..

 

Fish heads, fish heads Roley, polley fish heads"...

 

Back in the 80's that was a Sunday night institution at our house...as big as The Sopranos or Six Feet Under or The Wire became in recent years...but the radio station that carried it changed formats and became an all-sports station and no one else in our radio market picked it up so it's been years...First place I ever heard Weird Al way back in the late 70's..

 

...and Al's your uncle.

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