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Did some Epiphone Les Pauls come with long tenon?


Ricochet

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My LP Custom Midnight, an LE with EMGs, has a short tenon, but interestingly enough the routing is for a long tenon, leaving a small gap in the neck PU cavity.

As far as I know all Epi LPs have a short tenon, except for the Slash-LP. Are there any(other than the Slash) Epi Les Pauls with long tenons? Anyone notice this gap in theirs?

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I had mine apart twice changing the pups and later routing a small clearance around the pups to allow them to line up with the strings. I didn't notice the tenon pocket...shoulda taken a picture for later reference.

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My LP Custom Midnight' date=' an LE with EMGs, has a short tenon, but interestingly enough the routing is for a [i']long[/i] tenon, leaving a small gap in the neck PU cavity.

As far as I know all Epi LPs have a short tenon, except for the Slash-LP. Are there any(other than the Slash) Epi Les Pauls with long tenons? Anyone notice this gap in theirs?

 

What? Are we back to the appreciable differences between short and long tenon

again?

My Epi Custom (Saein) has the short tenon and "the gap" and the "mystery wood"

body...but it's got a lot of sustain now..(due to the sustainac driver)..that it just sits there

and wails until you get tired of it and move on..ok, so much for artificial sustain. Good points

and bad points.

 

G*bson has a Gary Moore LP (59 LP Standard with burst buckers), that has the long neck

tenon and that is based on Peter Green's '59 LP standard that had that "special" mojo in it's

neck p_up. Recently on this forum, someone mentioned it sold for over a cool million.

Sustain is helped a lot by overdriven amps and the right p_ups

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What? Are we back to the appreciable differences between short and long tenon

again?

My Epi Custom (Saein) has the short tenon and "the gap" and the "mystery wood"

body

 

 

Nah, just wondering why they bother routing for a long tenon.

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Can you show us a pic of your Elitist LP? Does it have the USA humbuckers?

 

I can't right now as I'm at work & the pics are at home. Awhile back one of the forum members posted some great photos showing the 'long' tenon on elitists vs. the 'short' tenon for Gibbys & 'regular' epis. It may be possible to find it doing a 'search' although I'm not sure it's been posted since the 'new' forum.

 

Yes, it has the 50/60 USA pickups which are identical to the 490/498.

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Yeah we've done this before and I think I remember the general agreement was that short or long really didn't make a difference. As has already been said, its how you use what you've got etc. There's a topic "Neck Tenons" at the Gibby site, where it's clearly discussed that some Gibbys also have short tenons that end right where the fretboard ends and they kick it around all day long the same as we do. (tried to copy just the pics but couldn't. ....Whatever. According to the photos there, my Epi has a long tenon. Whew, Geez, Wow am I glad about that... lol Pretty sure I've posted this before but here's the pic again. BTW, the "gap" that's been mentioned seems to be 'almost' standard....... .............J

 

 

Epiguts007.jpg

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Yeah we've done this before and I think I remember the general agreement was that short or long really didn't make a difference. As has already been said' date=' its how you use what you've got etc. There's a topic "Neck Tenons" at the Gibby site, where it's clearly discussed that some Gibbys also have short tenons that end right where the fretboard ends and they kick it around all day long the same as we do. Whatever. According to the photos there, my Epi has a long tenon. Pretty sure I've posted this before but here's the pic again. BTW, the "gap" that's been mentioned seems to be 'almost' standard.[/quote']

 

 

According to my '59 LP Standard drawing (from Stew-Mac) it ('59) has a long tenon which is 4.25 inches long and extends into the p_up cavity by 1.0 inch. There is about 1/8 inch long glue gap and this may be to allow them to set the neck angle to 4.5 degrees. Whether that makes a difference in sustain would only be resolved with a strip chart

hooked up to the guitar and a few strings at different frets picked to measure the sustain over a comparable '59 with

a short tenon and exactly the same strings and pickups. If the 25% additional length

in the long tenon represents a 25% increase in sustain..then they have something.

But, you can't compare apples (Gibby) to pineapples (Epi), they both play the same way,

but obviously if somebody is willing to pay over a million for a '59 with that special

neck humbucker, then maybe it's more than just marketing..some black magic involved

somewhere..and that's probably why they (long tenons) cost a bit more.

 

So JEPI, if you have an Epi LP with a long tenon, then hang on to it...it may be rare one.

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the "gap" that's been mentioned seems to be 'almost' standard....... .............J

 

 

Epiguts007.jpg

 

 

If that photo represents a long tenon, then the (epi) 56 GT RI I have is along tenon. IIRC, there is only 1/8" gap at the end of the tenon. This is normal for any mortise, it is for excess glue and ease of fit.

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If that photo represents a long tenon' date=' then the (epi) 56 GT RI I have is a long tenon. IIRC, there is only 1/8" gap at the end of the tenon. This is normal for any mortise, it is for excess glue and ease of fit.[/quote']

 

It doesn't quite look like an accurate representation of the '59 long neck tenon, which is

only supposed to have a 1/8" gap. In the picture the gap is much longer than 1/8" based

on the position of the tenon.

 

The less air gap the better, and the longer the tenon, the better the tonal balance and

sustain. If the tenon continued underneath the pickup cavities to just under the bridge

with a thicker carved top, that's even better, since the sound waves should be

longitudinal through the mahogany body, but that's just to expensive to be

practical for most manufacturers with the exception of custom shop luthiers.

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here's the pic again. BTW' date=' the "gap" that's been mentioned seems to be 'almost' standard

[/quote']

 

What you show is the famed in-between tenon...It's indecisively neither short nor long. O:)

A short tenon(like mine) ends with the fretboard.

 

The "gap" I mentioned is not an "air gap" for excess glue to escape. It's an empty routing for a long tenon... 8-[

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The "gap" I mentioned is not an "air gap" for excess glue to escape. It's an empty routing for a long tenon... O:)

 

 

 

You're probably right in this case, but in a blind mortise it's very important to leave a little extra room for glue. Without it,and with sometimes extreme clamping pressures, the hydraulic pressure of the glue can fracture the wood.

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If that photo represents a long tenon' date=' then the (epi) 56 GT RI I have is along tenon. IIRC, there is only 1/8" gap at the end of the tenon. This is normal for any mortise, it is for excess glue and ease of fit.[/quote']

 

Now this I find interesting. A standard production non-Elitist Epi with long tenon. Exactly what I wanted to know. TNX!

 

So my next question would be: Do all '56 GT RI come with extended tenon?

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Just spoke with a Rep from Gibson. 1800 444 2766... Gibson has no "official" pics to show the difference.. Here is a link that explains the difference.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j89iGuz0NzQ and there are a few links here that show how to build the LP.... This is also in the entire thread posted below.

 

Ricochet referred to the "famed in-between tennon", this, in the photos by "Tim A", is shown as a transitional tenon that barely is inside the pup cavity whereas the long tenon extends into the cavity. Note that the "gap" is present in all the photos which probably is for the excess glue aforementioned. You may see that one picture shows a tenon going entirely through the pup cavity and it sure looks like a Gibby to me. (The photo of my Epi shown here as well by my handle over there as "JimeJ" ). Soooooo, it 'seems' clear that what is in my Epi and what RotcanX has posted is indeed long tenon.............J

 

http://forums.gibson.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=2004

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Note that the "gap" is present in all the photos which probably is for the excess glue aforementioned.

 

Nope. It's just a question of simple woodworking. You make the mortise a bit longer to make sure that the tenon will fit properly with the heel of the neck up tight against the body.

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Nope. It's just a question of simple woodworking. You make the mortise a bit longer to make sure that the tenon will fit properly with the heel of the neck up tight against the body.

 

That makes sense AND if there is excess glue that would be a good place for it to go...... lol According to the video explaining the Gibson short and long tenon, ( if its accurate - who is this guy? ) the short tenon doesn't even reach to the end of the fretboard and as he points out, this is typically used in Gibbys except with Historics and such. I can't imagine that Epi tenons would be even less than that. Soooooo, Epi LP set necks are just as good. Right? Seems logical. The wood and pups used may be the more determining factor in the contoversary as opposed to the length of the tenon. With the LP there is sufficient wood-to-wood contact to make a solid bond, supposedly allowing the 'opportunity' for better sustain. On the other hand, G400's and Prophecys would seem to have less wood-to-wood contact and therefore would benefit from the long tenon. I can't recall anyone complaining about the lack of sustain in the Epi, SG styles. You have several SG's. What say you? I'm "guessing" the tenons on the SG's are consistently longer than the LP's. I'd like to see more pics of neck pup cavities and I wonder now if the semi-hollows have long, transitional or short tenons - just for grins.............J

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