Single humbucker+coil tap+3 way switch=Kill switch?

[iansmitchell]

If I were to say, take a newer les paul junior and an aftermarket(since stock doesn't) humbucker with 4- conductor wiring, Could I use a 3-way swith so it went Humbucker-none-coil tap or coiltap-humbucker-none?

 

Thanks.

[Biff]

Buy a couple of push-pull pots and save yourself the trouble.

[iansmitchell]

Buy a couple of push-pull pots and save yourself the trouble.

But how would that work as a killswitch?

Plus I REALLY like the felling of using the switch, sweaty hands+pulling=NOT WORKING.

[carverman]

Buy a couple of push-pull pots and save yourself the trouble.

 

Yes, bang on there. On my LP project (the Legacy), I ran 4 wires over to the push-pulls

(tone pot have the push-pulls only) and did the coil splitting. You still need the 3 way to select

neck- combined-bridge, so you don't want to mess around with the wires to the 3 way.

 

However, I did add a separate mini-toggle for phase inversion and

it's got a "kill position" in the middle position..but that's only because that's all

I had at the time.

The mini toggle is ON/OFF/ON. Stew-Mac sells those. (#1221).

It's a bit Gretsch style (kill switch), but some like it. The toggle would have to

go in the control cavity, and that means drilling a 1/4 hole for it.

[iansmitchell]

 

Yes' date=' bang on there. On my LP project (the Legacy), I ran 4 wires over to the push-pulls

(tone pot have the push-pulls only) and did the coil splitting. You still need the 3 way to select

neck- combined-bridge, so you don't want to mess around with the wires to the 3 way.

 

However, I did add a separate mini-toggle for phase inversion and

it's got a "kill position" in the middle position..but that's only because that's all

I had at the time.

The mini toggle is ON/OFF/ON. Stew-Mac sells those. (#1221).

It's a bit Gretsch style (kill switch), but some like it. The toggle would have to

go in the control cavity, and that means drilling a 1/4 hole for it. [/quote']

Well since it's a 1 pickup guitar, there's only 2 knobs. I'd be putting in a selector switch for the coil tap or regular bucker, and since you can't run both at once, one of the positions would be fine for a nice killswitch.

[carverman]

But how would that work as a killswitch?

Plus I REALLY like the felling of using the switch' date=' sweaty hands+pulling=NOT WORKING.

[/quote']

 

The way the switch is wired, you can't really use it as a kill in the mid position..it's

ON(Neck) On (BOTH) on (Bridge)..so it's not intended as a Gretsch style kill switch..

Gretsch use a separate switch for that and the wiring is a bit different from Gibson.

 

What I use for the push pulls is Hipshot o-ring metal knobs . They are sort-of Gretsch

style, but have 3 o-rings..can't slip on those..even after eating KFC.

[carverman]

Well since it's a 1 pickup guitar' date=' there's only 2 knobs. I'd be putting in a selector switch for the coil tap or regular bucker, and since you can't run both at once, one of the positions would be fine for a nice killswitch.[/quote']

 

Ok, if you are only running 1 p_up, then what you can do is use the "bridge" position

which is non-existant and jumper the "neck" tab over to the bridge tab.

One of the middle tabs connect to the output jack and the other middle tab to ground (shield).

 

So when you operate the 3 way in the neck position the p_up is live, when you flick the 3 -way to

the bridge position the p_up is shorted out.

 

EDIT..you still need a push-pull, or a DPDT toggle to split the coils though.

I just can't see how a switchcraft style 3 way is going to do it, because you only have a SPDT switch

with a center on where both p_ups are combined together. For coil splitting you

need to connect the red/white to black or ground, so there is two sets of terminals

required. I checked with the SD wiring diagrams, and I can't see a standard 3 way used that way, but certainly, you

can get a full size DPDT toggle and try it.

 

Is that what you want?

[iansmitchell]

 

The way the switch is wired' date=' you can't really use it as a kill in the mid position..it's

ON(Neck) On (BOTH) on (Bridge)..so it's not intended as a Gretsch style kill switch..

Gretsch use a separate switch for that and the wiring is a bit different from Gibson.

 

What I use for the push pulls is Hipshot o-ring metal knobs . They are sort-of Gretsch

style, but have 3 o-rings..can't slip on those..even after eating KFC.[/quote']

Well I'm not so suer how the wiring would go, and since there's not enough pickups to blend signal, who wouldn't the middle just do one, the other, or nothing?

Hmmmmm...

 

Also, I would be doing so van halen-style fast kill switching, which makes push-pull a LITTLE impractical.

[RotcanX]

Yes, it can be done, and you end up with humbucking, tapped, killed.

 

Cool idea; let me know if you have trouble figuring out how it's wired.

[RotcanX]

 

Ok' date=' if you are only running 1 p_up, then what you can do is use the "bridge" position

which is non-existant and jumper the "neck" tab over to the bridge tab.

One of the middle tabs connect to the output jack and the other middle tab to ground (shield).

 

So when you operate the 3 way in the neck position the p_up is live, when you flick the 3 -way to

the bridge position the p_up is shorted out. You still need a push-pull, or a DPDT toggle to split the coils though.

I just can't see how a switchcraft style 3 way is going to do it, because you only have a SPDT switch

with a center on where both p_ups are combined together. For coil splitting you

need to connect the red/white to black or ground, so there is two sets of terminals

required. I checked with the SD wiring diagrams, and I can't see a standard 3 way used that way, but certainly, you

can get a full size DPDT toggle and try it.[/quote']

You need to think outside the box, c-man. It's doable with only the three-way.

[layboomo]

It's very simple .....hint : A....A+B...B is the standard switch!

 

OK I'll give it to you!

Both coils....ground

One coil....ground

Both coils to ground

[iansmitchell]

Yes' date=' it can be done, and you end up with humbucking, tapped, killed.

 

Cool idea; let me know if you have trouble figuring out how it's wired. [/quote']

 

Well, it'll probably be my first wiring job, depending on whether or not I wanna change the Pickups on my dot for a P-90 (or different brand P-90, liek a mean 90) and a '57 (or similar) anytime soon.

 

How much soldering is required, and what variety of soldering gun should I buy?

[carverman]

It's very simple .....hint : A....A+B...B is the standard switch!

 

OK I'll give it to you!

Both coils....ground

One coil....ground

Both coils to ground

 

Well I do think "outside the box" as they say Rotcanx/Layboomo, but I just can't

see how you are going to achieve 3 different functions on a single pole 3-way

switch..and I do know quite a bit about electronics etc.

 

You have 4 wires to deal with on a humbucker:

Blk can be wired directly to the vol pot tap.

Grn can go to ground..ok...that leaves two wires (red/wht) that need to be

switched. How are you going to do that with a single pole remaining AND

preserve the neck pickup selection on the other pole?

 

Position 1: (Rythmn) Neck p_up ON

Position 2: (Middle) coil tap/split... whatever...two wires to deal with

Position 3: (Treble-non-existant p_up) becomes "Kill"....

so to do that, you can either open the

neck pickup coil circuit or short it out to kill it. If you leave it as open,

you are going to have an open circuit and a lot of buzz....

If you short it out which is the preferred method, then you still have to

deal with juggling the two wires (red/wht) from the two coils, one which

has to be grounded and the other opened.

[carverman]

It's very simple .....hint : A....A+B...B is the standard switch!

 

OK I'll give it to you!

Both coils....ground

One coil....ground

Both coils to ground

 

Ah yes..thinking outside the box...rewire the 3-way to switch grounds rather than

signal as per the traditional Gibby way. That's equivalent to RPN (Reverse Polish

Notation) that H-P uses on their calculators.

 

Ok, so I drew out the circuit to understand the concept, but one thing I haven't been

able to figure out, is how you select the North coil or the South coil individually

with this method.

 

Rythmn pos: Both coils to ground via switch.

Mid pos: Select tap for north or south but not both??

Treble pos: Kill the output

[RotcanX]

Enough suspense. Here's the circuit:

 

 

In the middle position, the second (tapped) coil is shorted out. The humbucking position breaks this short. The kill position isolates the pickup.

 

...and I have no idea what Layboomo is talking about.

[carverman]

Enough suspense. Here's the circuit:

 

 

In the middle position' date=' the second (tapped) coil is shorted out. The humbucking position breaks this short. The kill position isolates the pickup.[/quote']

 

Pretty cool. You learn something everyday as they say. The only question I will pose is is

the "kill"...which just breaks the circuit...if your volume is up all the way, then would you not

have some "noise" still present...the vol pot and the wire is still in the amp's input circuit.

But maybe I've missed something.

[RotcanX]

Well I agree it's not the ideal set-up; technically it'd be better if the input was grounded when in the 'kill' mode but no, there shouldn't be that much noise, since the pickup is isolated; pots don't really create much signal; it'll be no worse than that alternate wiring method used to get individual volume control on a Les Paul. Worst case, just dial the volume down and that'll short the output jack.

[carverman]

Yes, I see your point. A 500k volume is lower impedance than the input impedance of the amp,and

depending on the gain/presence on the amp, turning down the vol will do it.

[layboomo]

Enough suspense. Here's the circuit:

 

 

In the middle position' date=' the second (tapped) coil is shorted out. The humbucking position breaks this short. The kill position isolates the pickup.

 

...and I have [i']no idea[/i] what Layboomo is talking about.

 

That's not the only way it can be done!

[carverman]

 

That's not the only way it can be done!

 

Ok, we are getting quite of bit of mileage out of this one.

So let's throw all the cards on the table and see what other

ingenius ways we can use a switchcraft 3-way.

Layboomo..draw up a diagram of "your way", take a digital pic of

it and post it to photobucket..then we can all see it?

 

(Sorry, I folded up my cards a while ago, but I find it interesting.)

[RotcanX]

True, I can think of another way but this way is the best of the two. Fell free to post an alternate schematic for discussion... mwuah huah huah huah huahhhhhhh...

[layboomo]

I'll draw one up tonite guy's ....I can't do it right now but I'll spill the beans......the center position doesn't have to bring the 2 contacts together....so if you leave them separated you put red and white on one pair black and pos to volume control on the other....so center position is humbucker...down position is single coil and up is kill!

[RotcanX]

the center position doesn't have to bring the 2 contacts together

 

I think I see what you're getting at. Now that's what I call thinking outside the box. Excellent.

[carverman]

I'll draw one up tonite guy's ....I can't do it right now but I'll spill the beans......the center position doesn't have to bring the 2 contacts together....so if you leave them separated you put red and white on one pair black and pos to volume control on the other....so center position is humbucker...down position is single coil and up is kill!

 

Sounds good. pos? What happens to the green? Comments will follow on your diagram.

[layboomo]

OK I got a few minutes and this is doable....red and white are together on on one contact up it's humbucker,middle it's single coil and down it's kill. So you have red and white together and ground on one side and black and pos vol control on the other side......I started second guessing myself It's very much like this but with a second break position for the kill function. And you don't connect the center contacts like a standard LP switch!