northernbluesman Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I hate my guitar! I've had my Dot for awhile now, over a year. I have yet to record with it, I don't play it for more then 2 minutes at a time because I get so frustrated with the large frets that throw a perfectly good chord sharp. What do you folks do? I'm at the point where I'm thinking this guitar is just not for me. I've done the P.I.T.A. complete electronics upgrade to Gibson pups and wire, CTS pots, Switchcraft switch, sprague caps to get the mud out of it. But it still sounds like crap because of the frets. I don't have any luthiers where I live, and shipping it to a luthier and having them remove some life from the frets is going to cost more then the guitar cost. I wish I could return the thing to m123, I'd like my money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 "Tuning problems" such as yours come up often here. You might like to do a search for "tuning" and look at the various threads. A couple of things I'll mention that may help: 1) You might want to try a wound G string. There are also previous threads about that. And possibly a heavier gauge set. 2) A lighter touch, especially if you're used to playing acoustic. I just started playing an electric again after a long hiatus of only playing a small-fretted acoustic (even smaller frets due to 35 years of wear). My new Epi Dot has big frets, too. The above things proved to be the cure. I still have to remind myself to grip more gently. I don't think it's your guitar. tick....tick....tick....waiting for the inevitable stream of setup and intonation stuff sure to come.... and that being said, I had already assumed that you, being an apparently bright person who did all those mods, know the guitar is within factory specs action-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Why didn't you noticed you didn't like the frets before you dumped all that cash into it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Case of "Gibson envy?" :>) Like...you really wanted a Gibson, 335...but, couldn't afford it, or couldn't justify the expense..but, have never been satisfied, even with all the Gibson parts in your Epi? I've seen and heard this...SO MANY TIMES, before. Not saying that this IS your situation....just that it sounds remarkably familiar. If that IS the case...spend the money (or save for it, if you don't have it now), and get the Gibson! But, I don't really think your "Dot" is the problem, here. But, admittedly, I could be wrong. LOL! Also, it takes playing a guitar, for more than 2 minutes at a time, to get into the feel of it. But, if you've made up your mind, you don't like it, and never will...you probably won't (and shouldn't) bother doing more. Anyway...you should do what makes YOU happy....Epi, Gibson, or whatever! LOL! Cheers, CB OK...someone just PM'd me, saying they felt I was unfairly critical of this poster. Sorry... that wasn't my intent, at all. I was just teasing him, a bit...and wondering too, at the same time, if he wasn't feeling the need to get what (maybe) he really wanted, in the first place. We've all been there...I know I have, anyway! So...if I've offended anyone (AGAIN)...Sorry! Friday's don't seem to be my day, here. LOL! Anyway, I have a Gig, tonight, and it's been a very "weird" day...all around, already. So...please take no offense...none was meant, OK? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernbluesman Posted June 20, 2008 Author Share Posted June 20, 2008 Ok so I have more then 2 minutes on this thing, and when I bought it I was playing stuff that was higher up on the neck so the sharp stuff wasn't as apparent up there. And I have been playing a couple of hours a day on my strat (vintage frets) and my acoustic so my hand strength is pretty good right now. It's set up to absolute perfection otherwise. I lowered a new tusq nut almost a millimeter from the stocker and that helped a bit. And it's not Gibson anything, I could care less about brands. I looking for a particular feel and tone from the guitar. I've been messing up perfectly good guitars for almost 20 years now to get them where I want them. I'm just to cheap to buy fret files and too stubborn to learn how to knock about 15% of the height out of these things. And I like to complain. And I think jumbos are dumbos. Just a funny note, I found the one single luthier we have around here, and he works at Walmart in the Tire and Lube Dept., kinda terrifying isn't it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesstringer Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Case of "Gibson envy?" :>) Like...you really wanted a Gibson' date=' 335...but, couldn't afford it, or couldn't justify the expense..but, have never been satisfied, even with all the Gibson parts in your Epi? I've seen and heard this...SO MANY TIMES, before. Not saying that this IS your situation....just that it sounds remarkably familiar. If that IS the case...spend the money (or save for it, if you don't have it now), and get the Gibson! But, I don't really think your "Dot" is the problem, here. But, admittedly, I could be wrong. LOL! Also, it takes playing a guitar, for more than 2 minutes at a time, to get into the feel of it. But, if you've made up your mind, you don't like it, and never will...you probably won't (and shouldn't) bother doing more. Anyway...you should do what makes YOU happy....Epi, Gibson, or whatever! LOL! Cheers, CB OK...someone just PM'd me, saying they felt I was unfairly critical of this poster. Sorry... that wasn't my intent, at all. I was just teasing him, a bit...and wondering too, at the same time, if he wasn't feeling the need to get what (maybe) he really wanted, in the first place. We've all been there...I know I have, anyway! So...if I've offended anyone (AGAIN)...Sorry! Friday's don't seem to be my day, here. LOL! Anyway, I have a Gig, tonight, and it's been a very "weird" day...all around, already. So...please take no offense...none was meant, OK? CB [/quote'] Man, whay are you getting all this heat lately Charlie, you- critical ? nahhh, LOL ! IMO, jumbo frets are not for heavy handed guitar players or guitarists unless you're SRV, especially for rhythm work. I do agree with CB in that if you're unhappy with the guitar, that is not likely to change. I as well don't believe that it is a tuning issue, but again, a search of this forum will provide you with every possible tuning fix available to man if you want to try to chase it down. Good Luck ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cujo Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 Call Elderly Instruments in Lansing and ask what they would charge you to dress your frets down to an acceptable level. I'm sure it would be a good bit cheaper than a total re-fret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 After learning more about you and your guitars, I can see that my advice was useless. Not a problem. Now I think you should take it to the Wal-Mart guy and get it aligned and balanced at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Man' date=' whay are you getting all this heat lately Charlie, you- critical ? nahhh, LOL ! IMO, jumbo frets are not for heavy handed guitar players or guitarists unless you're SRV, especially for rhythm work. I do agree with CB in that if you're unhappy with the guitar, that is not likely to change. I as well don't believe that it is a tuning issue, but again, a search of this forum will provide you with every possible tuning fix available to man if you want to try to chase it down. Good Luck ![/quote'] Oh...there wasn't really any "heat," John...the member that PM'd me, was just a bit concerned, that I might have been kind of "heavy handed" in my response. And, as I explained to him...it's hard, when we can't see each other, to see expression, demeanor, etc....to help us judge if someone is kidding or serious. That's why I included the "wink" symbol, and the "LOL"...hoping those things would keep it "light?" Most that know me, and are used to my "weird" sense of humor (at times), would have known I was not all that serious, here. But, rather than take a chance...I just added the apology, after being made aware, that there MIGHT be a misunderstanding? No big deal...but thanks, for your concern, bud. I appreciate that. And, believe me, IF I ever DO get "serious," everyone will have NO doubt...LOL! But, I much prefer to keep things "light and fun," whenever possible. Maybe it seems kind of "Pollyanna," and that aggravates some? Who knows? LOL! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I think you need to adjust your technique. Lighten the grip or pressure from a finger or two when chording. Changing to a heavier stringgauge may help, but I'd call that a poor solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I didn't see any particulars like string guage or whether it's just a problem on the open chords. If it's everywhere, it's may be that you have installed strings that are too light for the jumbo frets. If it's only on open chords, the nut height may need to be lowered. My Gibson LP has always needed the nut to be filed slightly on the 1st string side, I just learned to compensate and haven't gotten around to doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 brother i feel your pain! my wife bought me a casino w/bigsby for christmas couple yrs ago. beautiful guitar but the tuning drove me crazy. at that time i didn't know about this forum. i started to hate the guitar and would just let it hang on the wall because i was so frustrated. finally had a chance to talk to a guitar tech i met and he suggested heavier gauge strings. duh! what do ya know? simple solution and now she sounds as good as she looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockin_Dude Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 All that`s needed is nothing more then a good setup.Any tech can do it hollowbodies setup a little bit different then solid bodies. So you think the frets are causing all your problems,sorry i don`t buy that ..unless there stickin past the neck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickblues1 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Tune the guitar a bit to the flat side - say 5% and try it. I do that because I sometimes put to much of a death grip around the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 when you say heavier guage strings on that casino, what #s are you referring to exactly? thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 NorthernBluesMan, what guage string are you playing? Have you used a tuner to set the intonation? When you pick a string open and then on the 12th fret, are you in tune at both places on the tuner? If you fret in the first few frets and press down hard and then light, does the note change significantly? You indicated that the tuning problem was less obvious on the upper frets. My first thought here is a high nut. Nut height should be .010 or less. .005 is a good setting. Nut height can be checked by fretting at the 3rd fret and using sheets of standard copy paper (.001 each) to check clearance at the 1st. If you can insert a business card loosely (.010), it's too high and fretting open chords firmly will result in sharp notes. A quick check is to fret the 3rd and tap on the 1st. You should have only a hair's width of clearance. The string should be almost touching but you should see a slight deflection when you press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Cookieman - that is one sweet looking Casino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsaslim Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Man, you have hit my nerve on this topic. Personally, I can't stand the 'jumbo' frets that seem to be the rage these days & have been getting ready to take a couple of my guitars down to my tech & have them popped out & replaced with the 'short, narrow' frets I love. To me those jumbo frets are akin to putting speed bumps on a drag strip. I hate 'em. Most of my Epis have 'medium' frets that I can live with but I've got 3 Fender Tele Custom Specials that have extemely fast necks incumbered with these jumbo frets. I can't wait to get the first one back with the small frets & if it works out like I hope I will have it done to the other two. My only concern it that the fret slot in the fretboard may already be too wide & if this is the case I'll have the entire fretboard replaced (with birdseye maple). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 take a couple of my guitars down to my tech & have them popped out & replaced with the 'short' date=' narrow' frets I love.[/quote'] Why don't you have your tech reshape'm(instead of refretting)? A lot less hassle(and money) if you ask me, and you 'save' the fretboard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsaslim Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I will certainly run that option by him. He will do what is the cheapest yet still works. If he can knock 'em down enough to make me happy that will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 A few years ago, feeling bluesy, I decided to send my Taylor in to a reputable Taylor dealer.. and have the frets level crown polish. 140.00 plus shipping two ways. and they did a really lousy job. they did minimum on every step, weren't fast at all, and overcharged me even if it had been decent work. Never again says I. since then I have done every single guitar I've had in my shop, myself. Without a single problem. My shertaon, 15 years old, was getting pretty funky.. some deep spots.. and general wear all up the board.. If I did the same thing as the jerks who did my tayor I would have lost a sh&tload of frets and gotten no action in return. One thing that you can do is use a slighthly smaller crowning file.. regular then slightly smaller. and that leaves a nice curve over the top, but also lowers the fret height a bit.. and you get less of that top of fret to fingerboard string bend that makes jumbo fretted guitars mess you around on intonation. but it's also taking the time to put on new strings.. let them break in a bit.. and then intonating as perfectly as possible.. there's a little bit of magic in this process for even the junkiest guitar... they all have sweet spot for tone, for playability and for intonation.. and no matter what anyone says, off the rack guitars all need a fair amount of consideration there. ricochet has a good point, to me. because I'll do that myself. a combination of proper care, and then the right technique can make your guitar really come alive.. but, as in my Taylor case, a jackass with a reputation will just take your money and then go blank when you ask about tone. I want to say that I sold a guy some prewired controls and I got an email from him saying he had to redo all of it. I was really blown away. I packed it well.. all was tight.. and I can't imagine what could have gone wrong.. but there you go... I'm no genius or mr. perfect.. somehow I got him a raw deal, though I have no idea how. He said he wouldn't mention it in here, which was really gracious.. but it's been eating chunks off my glutes ever since he let me know. I'm trying to figure out something to make up for it... that will also not make me seem incompetent. Sometimes, and quite often, I really hate mail order stuff.. Anyway.. choose a person you can trust, try to find someone close enough that you can talk to them. But most importantly KNOW what the options and procedures are.. buyer beware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookelputz Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Plek. Tulsaslim, a google search of "plek, oklahoma" gave testimonials, blogs, websites. The process works and can be used to accomplish exactly what you want. If there's a machine in Norman, why not Tulsa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 PLEASE don't take this the wrong way.......but I think it has more to do with light gauge strings and your technique than high frets. I'm not saying the guitar couldn't benefit from a fret dressing,but thats not your entire problem In my humble opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsaslim Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Plek. Tulsaslim' date=' a google search of "plek, oklahoma" gave testimonials, blogs, websites. The process works and can be used to accomplish exactly what you want. If there's a machine in Norman, why not Tulsa? [/quote'] Snookelputz, I had no idea there was a Plek machine in Oklahoma. Thanks a million for pointing that out to me. I will certainly make note of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookelputz Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Snookelputz' date=' I had no idea there was a Plek machine in Oklahoma. Thanks a million for pointing that out to me. I will certainly make note of that.[/quote'] You're welcome. I have had 3 Epiphones and 2 Gibsons plekked. I have 2 Fenders and a Gretsch that will get plekked as soon as I figure out how to pay for it. Substantial improvements in each case (and one started with those medium-jumbo things), all have as near to same feel now as I could possible hope for. Tech hit perfection on the 2nd guitar, and did the rest to same specs. Perhaps not so surprisingly, the Epi's all benefited to a larger degree than the Gibsons, but I'm flat out crazy about 4 of them (sold the 1st one - its was good, but not the same as the later ones). The Epi's are a Riviera, a Dot and an LP. The Gibson I kept is an SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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