The_Sentry Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Just a comment and a question: I purchased another Epiphone yesterday. Although the seller said they were "Gibson" pickups, I had a suspicion they weren't...and my suspicions were correct. (But you know, it wasn't like I could pull the pups off in front of him and look at the back plate.) I'm still happy with the purchase, though... But there's something I noticed.....through this guitar, which in a left handed model comes with a carved maple veneer top, the pickups sound brighter than they did in the Les Paul Custom....that guitar (which only has a "mahogany" top) sounded really muddy and the high end never really registered well with that pup setup. But on this guitar? After getting it, I jammed with a country artist and dialing in some clean tones...it sounded really, really nice. No, they didn't have that "Gibson" tone per se (and I'm not sure you can get that from the pickups alone) but the overall effect was really clean, bright, and balanced. Am I the only one who has noticed this? And, Epiphone pickups aside (Yeah, I know...people would rather rip them out, but still...) is this a question where they engineered the pickups with guitars that had maple tops? How big of a difference does the maple top make in your opinion not only in terms of sustain, but overall tonality of the guitar? (I hate to admit this...but I may just stick with this setup for a while. I have some gold plated ones I want to slap in there, but they're the same model of pickups.....Ironically, I'm actually pretty happy with the sound of this guitar as-is, and it seems like it would be really great for mellower music vs. my Custom which now has the thumping Burstbucker Pro with Alcino V magnets in it...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansmitchell Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 OUCH MAN!!! You talked about the pickups like half the selling point of this axe, when you put off your LP special II project for it! Anyway, maple is a wood whose density contributes to more treble sustain, where as mahogany tops mostly sustain mid and bassier sounds. the brighter sound is the maple, and the pups are based off of the gibson pups, which are by and large put in maple top guitars, except for the SG, but the SG is not really known for a bright sound or high note sustain, is it? Anyway, I know I usually don't like the red sunburst, but that's not a bad one, the flame maple really looks nice, bet it looks downright sexy under stage lights. Good enough find, but not superb, I'd never call it a straight up ripoff, but I'd tell the guy the wrong pups were in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sentry Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 OUCH MAN!!!You talked about the pickups like half the selling point of this axe' date=' when you put off your LP special II project for it! Anyway, maple is a wood whose density contributes to more treble sustain, where as mahogany tops mostly sustain mid and bassier sounds. the brighter sound is the maple, and the pups are based off of the gibson pups, which are by and large put in maple top guitars, except for the SG, but the SG is not really known for a bright sound or high note sustain, is it? Anyway, I know I usually don't like the red sunburst, but that's not a bad one, the flame maple really looks nice, bet it looks downright sexy under stage lights. Good enough find, but not superb, I'd never call it a straight up ripoff, but I'd tell the guy the wrong pups were in it.[/quote'] Oh, that project will still continue. Although because it's a maple top....the end results might be different. (only difference? I've got tone pots, so I can experiment with different caps on those...) But after getting this guitar...no super huge rush. I may just enjoy it for a month or two as-is. The only thing I think it needs some mismatched gold and nickel plated hardware. (Just like my other one). The poster formerly known as Dave Strat man has a nice look with that gold hardware on his tiger striped LP, but I'm not going to pony up the cash to get everything replaced. All in all? Not a great deal, but not a bad deal. Maple topped LP, SKB case, and I got the locking tuners and straplocks (which I'm beginning to conclude are a must-have on a LP) for 400 bucks. And...I'm still thinking about hitting up my cousin (film student/at least has access to a camera and editing) about filming a youtube video.....This really has me thinking....I'd like to just film a comparison between this guitar (slightly modified), my LP custom (heavily modified), and the stock Gibson on a bunch of different amp settings and ask if people really hear that much of a difference. I don't know if this is a question of just beating myself up over this, and I don't want to dump a ton of money into this guitar....it will end up as the shop guitar....but not before I just put some legitimate playing into it. Anyways...thanks for the explanation on this. It goes a long way to explain the issue with the LP Custom, and to a degree it also explains why Gibson put the same pup configuration in their Les Paul Vintage (Alcino V Burstbuker Pros) which also has a mahogany neck.... EDIT: This thread might be of use to anyone who also has a mahogany topped guitar, and is considering the Gibson 490/498 pickups. You may end up with the same results with those pups....muddy tone because of the top...(And, to be fair about this....before settling in on pickups for that LP custom I went everywhere I could to get as much information as I could...and on the mahogany topped guitars people tended to rave more about the Burstbuckers with the Alcino V magnets, the Angus Young pickups and the Iommi pickups as far as Gibson aftermarket stuff is concerned...) Or...you could just experiment with a 1 meg pot...which might cost you 6 or 7 bucks apiece on a mahogany topped guitar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 The only maple in an Epiphone is in the veneer. Right under that 32nd of an inch is the same mystery 'mahogany' that the rest of the guitar is made of. They get to call it a 'maple cap' because of the maple veneer; this is a standard practice in the furniture industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sentry Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 The only maple in an Epiphone is in the veneer. Right under that 32nd of an inch is the same mystery 'mahogany' that the rest of the guitar is made of. They get to call it a 'maple cap' because of the maple veneer; this is a standard practice in the furniture industry. That's useful information. Thanks, RotcanX. But to be fair about this....even that thin veneer made a difference. It wasn't as easy tagging these as Epi pickups because they sounded different in this guitar vs. the Custom when I first bought that. And yeah, gotta get a hold of my cousin for this video. I don't know if it would even be fair to make assumptions anymore vs. just sampling the same riffs over all 3 guitars on 3 different settings (clean, moderate crunch, heavy distortion) and then ask people to make their own conclusions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansmitchell Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Well, honestly, HOW far can a vibration go from strings to wood and back? Even a 1/32 inch will make a great difference, when it's as dense wood as maple. As for you sentry, I'd love to see that video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncart Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 i have notice a diff in high end from my epi lp100..(is it plywood?) and my epi lp custom(veneer maple top)...the custom is supposed to have the 490/498 pickups..and through my mesaboogie maverick it is unbeleiveable!!! It has the best heavy rock crunch I have ever heard... when through my digitech rp10 with a clean setting...it sounds smooth as silk both tones with a def high end with out the ear bleed freqs....the lp100 however is not a maple top,stock pickups and its very warm ,mellow with out the crisp high end...i ended up swapping the cream/black colored switch plate and pickguards on these two after these shots were taken..... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sentry Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 i have notice a diff in high end from my epi lp100..(is it plywood?) and my epi lp custom(veneer maple top)...the custom is supposed to have the 490/498 pickups..and through my mesaboogie maverick it is unbeleiveable!!! It has the best heavy rock crunch I have ever heard... when through my digitech rp10 with a clean setting...it sounds smooth as silk both tones with a def high end with out the ear bleed freqs....the lp100 however is not a maple top' date='stock pickups and its very warm ,mellow with out the crisp high end...i ended up swapping the cream/black colored switch plate and pickguards on these two after these shots were taken..... .[img'][/img] Dude... All asides.....I really like that black pickguard against that tiger stripe maple top. Hmmm...... (But yeah, I know the feeling. I just did my first major alteration to the guitar today...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 That's useful information. Thanks' date=' RotcanX. But to be fair about this....even that thin veneer made a difference. It wasn't as easy tagging these as Epi pickups because they sounded different in this guitar vs. the Custom when I first bought that.[/quote'] The custom most likely has a plain maple veneer as well. Makes it easier to finish. I know that the Studios have a plain maple veneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Well' date=' honestly, HOW far can a vibration go from strings to wood and back?Even a 1/32 inch will make a great difference, when it's as dense wood as maple. As for you sentry, I'd love to see that video.[/quote'] There's a mechanical coupling from the strings to the guitar body. When you play the wood vibrates. The vibrations travel throughout the body and the body colors the tone. Those vibrations re-energize the strings and then re-enter the pickups. There will be resonance regardless of whether the body is Maple, Mahogany, or plywood. I guess the answer is all the way from one end to the other. The tone will vary with the wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 The veneer on new Epis really is paper-thin and will make no noticeable difference to the tone. The only wood you will "hear" is the low grade mahogany that makes up 99% of the bulk of the body. The performance of Epi stock pups does vary from batch to batch, and factory to factory....different batches of caps and pots may vary too. And of course height of pups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Well' date=' honestly, HOW far can a vibration go from strings to wood and back?Even a 1/32 inch will make a great difference, when it's as dense wood as maple.[/quote'] No. A 1/2 inch maple cap makes a difference. A 32nd of an inch of veneer is about as effective as a thick coat of paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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