poverty Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 ya the cheat method. cut the old wire from the peveious pup.... and splice the new one's together. i need to do it soon. any advice welcome. thanx in advance.. pov..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn1281733995 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 That'll work just fine. Make sure you tape up any exposed wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsaslim Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 ya the cheat method.cut the old wire from the peveious pup.... and splice the new one's together. i need to do it soon. any advice welcome. thanx in advance.. pov..... All the time, brother. All the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 The newer Epi thinlines have a connector on each pickup so it's not really 'cheating' any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poverty Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 so it's not rocket science. I've built plenty diy stomp boxes and swaped pup's in solibodies... but never this. I imagine just match same coloured wires, strip, twist, tape and then proceed to rock on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesstringer Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 so it's not rocket science. I've built plenty diy stomp boxes and swaped pup's in solibodies... but never this. I imagine just match same coloured wires' date=' strip, twist, tape and then proceed to rock on.[/quote'] Sure you can do it this way and the possibly redo it later if it comes undone after said rocking on ! I would suggest still soldering the wires and using shrink tubing if you dont want to pull the other elements. Good luck bro ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobo5432 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I repleaced the pickups in my DOT with 57's... Didn't need to "cheat", it's easy enough to fish out the pots and resolder.... Followed this tutorial: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document?doc_id=100119 Replaced both pickups (and tuning machines) in about 3 hours... and that was my first pup job... Sounds WONDERFUL!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 You must have read my mind! I have ordered some GFS 59s for my Dot and was considering this method. So do I just solder the new PUP wire onto the existing wire that is going through to the pots? Any wire colours to be aware of? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poverty Posted July 1, 2008 Author Share Posted July 1, 2008 I would imagine after stripping ( just the wires ..please) match up same colours. I've not ordered from GFS before but i imagine there is a wiring diagram. When I get time i'll go to that link posted here using proper method. maybe i'll end up doing that. who knows. Let's see what mood i'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsaslim Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 My brothers & I do this all the time. Slip a piece of shrink tube over one line before you splice the wires together & it works just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 yeah, guilty as charged, too... I've been thinking about changing the switch, pots and rewiring the Dot some day, until that happens I'll rock on happily with the GFS Mean 90s which are just spliced and taped... No problems whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankS1281734010 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 hm, never thought of that. glad you brought it up though, i've been wanting to put new pups in my dot. but now i have a question: does it affect the sound at all if i leave a lot of excess pickup wire in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 The resistance, capacitance and the mojo factor of a few extra centimeters/inches of wire is nominal. Still it's possible that you will imagine hearing a difference. To minimize the effect, promise yourself to fix the issue(s) "as soon as possible", enjoy the new pickups and soon forget about it. I just ordered one meter of vintage style braided pickup wire, when it arrives I promise I'll try if I can hear a difference in the sound of a Burstbucker #3 or a Gibson '57 Classic with that one meter (39 inches) extra .. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burstbucker1281734065 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 The only problem I had with excess wire was using pickups with the braided ground around the pickup positive and the excess wire grounded at the wrong places as I replaced the pickguard. I shortened the leads and all was well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Clyde Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 the "cheat " method as you describe it has become the industry standard for guitar techs all over. if done correctly there is nothing wrong with it. just be sure to use heat shrink tubing. it works better and lasts longer than tape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 the "cheat " method as you describe it has become the industry standard for guitar techs all over. if done correctly there is nothing wrong with it. just be sure to use heat shrink tubing. it works better and lasts longer than tape I don't know if I agree with that.......If I was paying a "real tech"....I would expect point to point wiring and no splices just on principle. For me it's worth the extra time to do it right,but I'm a little anal that way to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I just finished wiring up my '95 Sheraton II with Seymour Duncan "Silver" humbuckers (Jazz in the neck position, JB at the bridge). Since it had a noisy pot and a noisy switch I decided to replace the entire harness. I had taken it to my local shop, which as it happened had just finished rewiring a '68 ES-345 Gibson. They not only said NO, they said HELL NO! so I decided to do it myself. Everything goes in and out through the treble f-hole. That means you must use mini pots, and allow enough slack in the harness so you can fish everything through one at a time. On my Epi, the largest part of the f-hole is about 1" x .75". I checked out Mojo Assembly's ES-335 wiring harness, but I was told their pots are 15/16" in diameter. I bought new mini pots from Stewart-McDonald, along with their wiring kit (lengths of multistrand hookup wire in black and white, and another length of small gauge shielded cable), a 3-way switch and an output jack, so I'd have clean attachment points. A little research revealed that Gibson uses .022 value caps on the bridge tone control and .047 on the neck; the closest I could get were .020 and .050, also from Stewart-McDonald. Getting the old stuff out was easy: loosen the strings so you can take off the tailpiece to access the pickups. remove the pickup mounting screws, and use wire cutters to disconnect the pickups. Remove the knobs, undo the nuts, and remove the pots, switch and output jack. I used a bent paper clip to fish the wires out. Once I had the wire I could work the component it was attached to out through the f-hole. I measured the position of the holes in the top for the pots and so on, and transferred them to a cardboard template. I had a set of leather punches around, so I used them to punch holes in the cardboard. Then I mounted the new parts. Remember the orientation: you have to put the pots in from the bottom, or you'll end up with everything wired up backwards! Then it's patience, patience, patience. I wired up the harness in the template, using the sleeves from the original Epi wiring to dress the wires. The pickups required an extra few steps. The SDs have five wires coming out of the pickup: white, red, black, green and bare. I didn't want to put another switch in my little honey, so I soldered the ends of the white and red wires together to convert it into a conventional humbucker. Heat shrink tubing went over the bare metal ends. Since the length for the neck pickup was not long enough for the Sheraton (or at least, didn't give me as much slack as I wanted), I then spliced the green (-) wire into the bare (ground, they would both end up connected to ground anyway) and used some of the white hookup wire to extend it about 5". I did the same with the black (+), this time using the black wire from S-M. I covered each step with heat shrink, so I ended up with a longer jacket with a white and a black wire protruding from the end. Once that was done, I removed the harness from the template and carefully soldered in the black and white wires to the pots, and added a white ground wire from the switch ground to each volume pot. Check continuity with a multimeter, especially the grounds. Otherwise you're taking a chance on doing it all over! After that, I tied string to the shaft of each pot (and the switch and jack, of course), fished the string through the hole for that one using my bent paper clip, then pulled and tweaked and yanked and cussed until each one was mounted in its place with a flat washer and a nut on it. Then it was pulling the excess wire back into each pickup's cavity, mounting the pickups, putting the tailpiece and strings back on, tuning it up, and plugging it in. The result? Lots of experience I won't need (I'll not blithely undertake this job again), and a fine sounding Epi. Quiet pots, a quiet switch, and a sound that much closer to my buddy's ES-340. And now I can take it by the local shop and show it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Yeah it is a patience tester for sure! I just wanted to be clear after re-reading my post...I didn't mean to imply that the cheat method can't yield good results,but rather that I don't think it's "industry standard" replacement method. A clean,soldered and heat shrinked splice should be fine in most applications. If I was going to experiment with several different pickups...some sort of molex type connector like EMG uses would be cool for quick changes. I think that shop said hell no because they know that the amount of time it takes vs what they can reasonably charge for the job isn't a money maker compared to slappin' pickups in a solid body guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I just ordered one meter of vintage style braided pickup wire' date=' when it arrives I promise I'll try if I can hear a difference in the sound of a Burstbucker #3 or a Gibson '57 Classic with that one meter (39 inches) extra .. :D [/quote'] Yes, you should be able to hear a difference. But.... it helps to have either the black beauty or bumblebees in there with the vintage wire...otherwise what is the point of going vintage to extract the last bit of pure tone that is not generally available to the mass guitar buying public of Chinese (or Korean) Epi Les Pauls? Gibson (in their wisdom) knew what they were doing in the 50s. You have to give credit where credit is due. If they had missed it, you along with hundreds of thousands of others, would probably never enjoy playing LPs or the SG. Genius as they say is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration and a lot of luck to have the right product at the right time ..who said that?.. I think it was Thomas Edison...they fired him because his employer thought he was incompetent..dreaming of schemes like lightbulbs and phono-graphs...of all things! Stompin' Tom (our singing icon from the maritimes who uses a board to stomp on while he recites his ditties), had a cute song...called 'The Consumer" "The consumer, they call us, runnin' in the race, Snappin' up the bargains in the ole marketplace, Another sale on something, we'll get it while it's hot, Spending all our money....money we don't got! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Yeah it is a patience tester for sure! I just wanted to be clear after re-reading my post...I didn't mean to imply that the cheat method can't yield good results' date='but rather that I don't think it's "industry standard" replacement method. A clean,soldered and heat shrinked splice should be fine in most applications. If I was going to experiment with several different pickups...some sort of molex type connector like EMG uses would be cool for quick changes. I think that shop said hell no because they know that the amount of time it takes vs what they can reasonably charge for the job isn't a money maker compared to slappin' pickups in a solid body guitar.[/quote'] I can see why the shop said no. Cutting and tinning/soldering 4 wires + shield x 4 is 20 wire connections and that's a LOT of time consuming work...at least a couple of hours. It can go faster if the shop has a molex pin crimp tool, but that's probably too expensive of a tool to use on the odd case where a customer wants plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I think it's pretty lame that a guitar shop would refuse that job...everyone complains about mass produced this and assembly line that, but no one is willing to actually put the time into doing a job in a time proven and effective way...weak! they should just sell guitars online in the original unopened factory boxes and be done with it : ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I think that, if the tech at my local shop hadn't just been through is baptism by fire (rewiring the ES-345) he would have taken on the job, but then he would have charged me by the hour and I might have ended up with quite a bill. In the event, it took me about 3 weeks of thinking, trying things out, pulling everything apart, and finding solutions. If you're used to rewiring solid body electrics, it's a whole new world of hurt. I don't think I'd care to do it as a business, although I'm sure I'd get plenty of referrals. It's painstaking work that punishes errors, and I don't think I could charge enough to make it worth my time, especially given the cost of the replacement pickups. I paid a couple of hundred for the Sheraton, and about the same for pickups and other parts, but had I paid the $660US new Sheratons w/case are going for and the $200 AND the tech's time I'd be better off buying a Gibson ES-335 that (hopefully) already has superior pickups. The Gibson factory (and, no doubt, the Epiphone factories) have specialized tools like long, right-angle forceps for placing the output jack in its hole (for example) but I don't know where I'd find something like that, and besides, I'd rather be playing music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 It's painstaking work that punishes errors' date=' and I don't think I could charge enough to make it worth my time, tech's time I'd be better off buying a Gibson ES-335 that (hopefully) already has superior pickups. The Gibson factory (and, no doubt, the Epiphone factories) have specialized tools like long, right-angle forceps for placing the output jack in its hole (for example) but I don't know where I'd find something like that, and besides, I'd rather be playing music. [/quote'] Don't need no long handle right angle forceceps IMO. I use a collapse-able wire loop that allows me to pull the output jack into its hole and secure with the nut. As far as connectorizing p_ups, it's not that big of a job if you are organized. I cut my p_up wires in two, and install the pins on each wire by crimping with pliers and then soldering for good measure. I have a pin vise, that allows me to clamp each pin secure while soldering. I can do both sides of a molex connector in about 15 to 20 minutes and about another 10 minutes to solder the bare ends to the pots (push=pulls). I've also used the stereo mini jack plugs on the p_ups and jack connectors on the wire to the pots, but you can only connectorize the GRN/BLK that way, the red/white has to stay joined. Overall, it should take much more than an hour to do the 20 connections and resolder the open end back on the pots if one is organized. That's about $60-$75 to connectorize your guitar so you can try any pickups in the future, practically hassle free. Just slacken the strings, remove the 4 pup ring screws and swap p_ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 That's cool. Me, I have a Radio Shack soldering iron, a ball of string, and a bent paper clip! But I'm not interested in swapping out pickups. As I said earlier, I'd rather be playing music.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I replaced the pups in my Dot with above mentioned RS soldering iron, dental floss (it was all I had lying around.. Besides, it made the pots and jack "minty fresh") and a bent coat hanger to retrieve the jack when it slipped inside.. (Tie the string around the threads BEFORE removing the nut! Pants go on the OUTSIDE of the underwear! Socks first, THEN shoes!) It took a very long time... But I wanted to do it "right"... If I were charging money to do this on someone else's guitar, they'd be better off buying another guitar that already has the pickups they want... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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