Goldie Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I see this reference a lot, and I really wonder about this. I've been to that side of the planet several times, and real MOP is cheaper(and much more plentiful) that the fake. Has anybody any real proof, or know first hand whether the Asian guitar makers use MOP or MOT? It's entirely possible that you guys all have the real thing, but just make assumptions because of the cost of the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 It's pretty obviously plastic. In many cases you can see where the square bits didn't quite melt all the way. The swirly effect is also a giveaway. True MOP will iridesce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Yes, there's no mistaking MOT or "pearloid" for MOP.. The difference is pretty dramatic... I tried taking some pictures of the MOP inlays on one guitar I own, and the pearloid inlays on my Casino to provide a reference, but the flash kinda ruined the effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Not sure what Ric used in their guitars but I have owned and sold a lot through the years. The modern "stuff" used for the inlays looks nothing like the vintage "stuff". I have had new and vintage ones side by side, the inlays and the black marks on the bindings on the 360s are modern day immitations of the old material. On Epiphones the early ones from the Peerless plant skipped the swirl thing and just used solid plastic. My Red Casino just had the solid inlays and my Riviera I still own has the solid inlays and not the swirl. My Supernova actually has the nicest swirl inlays, and pickgaurd and truss rod cover of all my standard Epiphones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 my joe pass is very well made and looks like a much more expensive guitar, but the inlays are really poor looking...they are inlayed well but the plastic is "eh"...especially on the the 1st inlay, where you can see what looks like grains of sand... however, my AJ18S-12LH has what appears to be real MOP, or at least looks it...just like this: http://www.elderly.com/items/images/26U/26U-1263_front-detail.jpg the other ones all look good and the headstock inlays appear to MOP (casino, EJ300S, LP standard elitist) what's the fake stuff called, pearloid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 my joe pass is very well made and looks like a much more expensive guitar' date=' but the inlays are really poor looking...they are inlayed well but the plastic is "eh"...especially on the the 1st inlay, where you can see what looks like grains of sand... what's the fake stuff called, pearloid?[/quote'] That's a shame, because my '95 JP still has real MOP, although its just plain old white and not the figured stuff , which has the pearlescence/iridescense in it. I ordered some real MOP from Stew-Mac for both my LP project guitars. The first one I just ordered the LP custom block set, on the second one, I decided to try the parallelogram design (but backwards from G*bson's), and had a choice between white pearl, figured white pearl, gold pearl, black pearl and green abalone. I decided on the figured pearl, which is about 10-15% more expensive. Just like rainforest tone woods, I think that the world's supply of pearl shells large enough to saw into small 1 inch square sheets, is getting scarce and the prices go up accordingly. That makes the real MOP reserved for the more expensive guitars with production types in the under $1K range now being supplied with MOT (pearloid). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I looked again after I posted, the inlays are maybe not as bad as described, but still nowhere near as nice as all the others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRizZ Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I always assumed that the Mother of Pearl / Abalone inlays on my Sheraton II were just that. They certainly look real to me. I have other guitars with really poor inlays - yes Tanglewood Les Paul, I'm talking to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan 58 Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 I agee, my sherry looks like real MOP, and my korean Dean looks like it was cut from a bar of soap.Stan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 On a related topic. I like the LP Customs block inlay, but always wondered about the point of using of a nice slab of ebony(for tone) and then ruining it with the inlays. Btw. Does anyone know if using fretboard-care-products affect this socalled iridescence of real MOP? Specifically the stuff to darken fretboards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRizZ Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Btw. Does anyone know if using fretboard-care-products affect this socalled iridescence of real MOP? Specifically the stuff to darken fretboards? I use Lemon Oil on mine and have so far not seen any effect on the MOP. Also - now you have got me thinking about it, I have just taken a closer look at my 2007 Hummingbird, and the inlays on that do look somewhat suspicious! Although on closer inspection of my Sheraton (1996) I am now 100% convinced of their authenticity. And just to add a bit more confusion, the inlay on the headstock of the Hummingbird does look genuine. Maybe it's just another case of the cost cutting in the newer guitars. Also it goes a little way to adding to the legend of the Samick factory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 See pickguard in picture...M.O.T. Ron'll tell you, RON, WHERE ARE YOU??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 See pickguard in picture...M.O.T. Ron'll tell you' date=' RON, WHERE ARE YOU???[/quote'] Mat, I'm right over here---------------------> Throw the damn pickguard in the garbage already; put it out of its misery. BTW: Are you gonna share that frikken pizza???!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 For a pretzel I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 For a pretzel I will. Want mustard whidat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 On a related topic. I like the LP Customs block inlay' date=' but always wondered about the point of using of a nice slab of ebony(for tone) and then ruining it with the inlays. Btw. Does anyone know if using fretboard-care-products affect this socalled iridescence of real MOP? Specifically the stuff to darken fretboards?[/quote'] The inlay is only about .020 to .040 thick. About the thickness of the outer layer of binding on a guitar. Indenting a 1/4 thick ebony fb isn't going to affect the tone too much, because it's the overall thickness of the neck at the 1st through the 15th and the neck tenon that affects the tone on the LP mostly. Pearloid (MOT) doesn't have any iridescence to speak off . It's just plastic and it will stain if the hard surface layer is scratched. Otherwise no problem with fb conditioners. Fret care products (AFAIK) generally don't affect real pearl. It will show a scratch though but you can easily polish up real MOP with #600 wet/dry paper. Black ebony stain (oil based) doesn't affect it, neither does Gibson brand fingerboard oil unless it's scratched. Real MOP is a very hard substance. Smells like tooth enamel or bone when it is being machined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Not sure what Ric used in their guitars but I have owned and sold a lot through the years. The modern "stuff" used for the inlays looks nothing like the vintage "stuff". I have had new and vintage ones side by side' date=' the inlays and the black marks on the bindings on the 360s are modern day immitations of the old material. On Epiphones the early ones from the Peerless plant skipped the swirl thing and just used solid plastic. My Red Casino just had the solid inlays and my Riviera I still own has the solid inlays and not the swirl. My Supernova actually has the nicest swirl inlays, and pickgaurd and truss rod cover of all my standard Epiphones. [/quote'] I just bought a 2008 Rick 4003 bass, and they've gone back to using the full width inlays, made of (I believe) yet another type of material... (I tried to re-locate the information, but couldn't find it...) They look really nice.. Much better than your typical, synthetic inlays... But you'd think for the price, they could sport ya some real MOP... At least they upgraded the fretboard to bubinga... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear222 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Way ta slip in the good news!! Bravo=d> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I always assumed that the Mother of Pearl / Abalone inlays on my Sheraton II were just that. They certainly look real to me. The Sheraton may very well have genuine MOP/abalone inlays. I haven't got one to verify but it would not surprise me that they go that extra step on these guitars, although there are products such as 'AbaLam' which is laminated from thin pieces of abalone and epoxy: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Inlay,_pearl/Blanks/AbaLam_Inlay_Blank.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Not sure what Ric used in their guitars but I have owned and sold a lot through the years. The modern "stuff" used for the inlays looks nothing like the vintage "stuff". I have had new and vintage ones side by side' date=' the inlays and the black marks on the bindings on the 360s are modern day immitations of the old material.[/quote'] Well, Rickenbacker used a "Crushed Mother of Pearl" inlay in the "Vintage" 360's up until about 1968-69 (I think it was?)....they used to claim that their supplier ran out, or stopped making it, so they went to a different material, that wasn't nearly as interesting, visually. I see they have (at least) gone back to the "Flag" markers going all the way across, the fingerboards, again...on the 2008 models (as well as their "Vintage Reissues")...but, it looks to be either pearloid, or possibly mother of pearl, and not the "crushed" version. But, I haven't actually seen one yet! Ric's, are damn scarce, around here! My Epi "Riviera" (Korean) seems to have MOP inlays, but I can't be sure. My Casino (1966 USA) and Sheraton (USA)both have MOP inlays. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Has anybody any real proof' date=' or know first hand whether the Asian guitar makers use MOP or MOT?[/quote']No. My '03 Elite LP is real MOP inlay and headstock (Rot' disagrees but all my unofficial tests/senses are 99.9 sure). Elite hang tag says real MOP also. While that info could be wrong, it doesn't seem to me like EPI would want to risk a false advertising claim over the extra few dollars it costs for real MOP. So my unproven best guess is: Elites=MOP, Elitists=MOP?, other Epis=??? ...and Ron G..., mustard please..., I'll bring the Molson's and you, me, and Matiac will swap out some pretzel vending, pizza chomping, beer drinking blues! (And I vote we invite this fine --------->Epi-lady with her pink Elite-ist<--------- to join our blues review.) Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 The inlay is only about .020 to .040 thick. About the thickness of the outer layer of binding on a guitar. Indenting a 1/4 thick ebony fb isn't going to affect the tone too much' date=' because it's the overall thickness of the neck at the 1st through the 15th and the neck tenon that affects the tone on the LP mostly. [/quote'] In honesty I can't tell myself. But just wondering with all the discussion of difference in tone by maple versus ebony versus rosewood fretboards... Also since paperthin maple-veneers and a coat of poly seem to affect tone, I certainly would expect block inlays (regardless of material and thickness) to make a difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Comparing different guitars I own, here's what I found. The standard is a lovely flamed maple jumbo acoustic custom-made in 1986, which has abalone, mother of pearl and gold wire inlaid in the peghead to form a large butterfly; smaller butterflies are used for fingerboard position markers and another resides on the heel cap. The luthier was a longtime friend, and his wife did the inlays; I can attest that they are the real thing. There's a three-dimensional quality to the figure in the different kinds of shell, and the figure doesn't repeat. Although the inlay is very precise, each one is obviously made of a number of smaller pieces. Taking a fresh look at my '95 Sheraton II, the inlays look like real pearl and abalone: lots of three-dimensional figure, and each piece noticeably different from the others. The vine inlay on the peghead is made of 14 separate pieces, which I think indicates it is real pearl. I've had some cheapo guitars that had "pearl" inlays and invariably they were a single piece of plastic. The quality is not up to the sumptuousness of the butterfly guitar, but it's excellent looking. My '70 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe uses pearloid, distinguishable by its repetitive figure and relative "flatness" compared to the inlays on the Epi. In fact, the material strongly resembles the pearloid covering on a '40s Supro lap steel I have laying around (this is the use that gave rise to the term "mother of toilet seat" as the stuff came in sheets that could be heated and then wrapped around shaped wood like lap steels and, well, toilet seats). Larry Robinson's The Art of Inlay (Backbeat Books, 2005, available from Stewart-McDonald) has a lot of information about the sources of shell and the methods of cutting, routing and so on, and if you're interested in this sort of work, it's recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Elite hang tag says real MOP also. While that info could be wrong' date=' it doesn't seem to me like EPI would want to risk a false advertising claim over the extra few dollars it costs for real MOP. [/quote']The hang tags speak in extremely general terms. For example the hang tags speak of 'bone saddles'. Obviously this does not apply to a Les Paul. They also claim that Elitists have nickel hardware... yet the tuners are chrome. While it does appear that the headstock inlays on all my Elitists are MOP, the trapezoids on my '04 SG and '06 LP are definitely plastic. I think they are referring to the Sheraton and perhaps the LP Custom when they talk of MOP inlay. However I admit that it's also possible that a '03 Elite used MOP as well; perhaps they 'downgraded' later on. One other point is that if they are trying to mimic genuine Gibsons, then the inlays should be plastic as even the original Gibson LPs/SGs used pearloid. Elitist headstock inlay (MOP): Elitist fingerboard inlay (Pearloid): (you can make out the partially melted plastic squares) FYI: "To produce pearloid, celluloid plastic chunks are swirled together in solvent, cured, sliced into sheets and then bonded to the backing laminates. Dyes may be added to achieve an aged look and the overall size of the "figuring" in pearloid comes as a result of how large the chips are at the beginning of the process." As far as 'false advertising claims' go, all manufacturers are covered in this respect by the standard line: "all prices and specifications subject to change without prior notice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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