gvdv Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I recently decided to purchase a Casino and struggled with decisions about which finish to get because I like both the natural (blonde) and sunburst colours. The choice between Elitist model, and the base, Chinese, versions was a more serious dilemma. So, I solved the problem by choosing to buy both guitars! A few days ago I took delivery of a sunburst Chinese Casino, which I will use out of the house, and for recording. In the future, I plan to buy the natural finished Elitist which I will keep for exclusive use at home. Guitar dater (www.guitardaterproject.org) tells me that my guitar was made at the Qingdao Plant (Epiphone), China in March 2008. In terms of my experience of the guitar so far, I have to say that all of the reviews of the instrument(s) which I read in my research prepared me well for the various quirks, idiosyncrasies, and pleasures of Casino ownership. For those who don’t know (and it took me a while to figure this out), the Chinese (and, previously, Korean) made instrument which I have just bought is one of three Casino ‘models’, and is the cheapest in the range. The ‘Elitist’ version is roughly double the cost of the Chinese instrument, with the top of the line natural finished ‘John Lennon Revolution’, and sunburst ‘1965’ Casino ‘range’ being about three times the cost of the Chinese models. You can see all of these models in various different places on the Epiphone website (perhaps Epiphone could append a note to each of the different pages displaying the various models, clarifying this situation for those who are not aware of it, and including links to the other Casino models). As almost everyone says about the Chinese/Korean models, the machine heads/tuners are appalling. Although the Casino was in tune coming out of the box, that state was undone by two minutes of mild playing. Like many others, I plan to replace the machine heads, and I’m quite resentful of the fact that Epiphone sells a new guitar which it knows full-well under performs in this context. In fact, I can’t think of another product I own in which a part of the product is integral to the product’s functionality, and the manufacturer is aware of this and does nothing to address the issue. Shame on Epiphone for this, and shame on us for accepting a sub-standard product. In effect, addressing this vital issue increases the cost of the instrument. I was apprehensive that the finish might contain small scratches under the polyurethane coating, as others have found, but the guitar is absolutely flawless in this regard. Full marks to Epiphone for this. The pickup toggle/selector, while not being the sturdiest I have ever encountered, will do for now, and most importantly to me, it is not buzzing. There is sometimes an audible ‘click’ when I switch to the neck pickup, and if this continues I may have this addressed in the free, one time, setup which the store I bought it from provides for one year after purchase. I hope that they would address this issue in the setup. Both the pickup selector and the jack socket for the guitar lead/cable are securely tightened, and the trapeze tailpiece and bridge are displaying no audible or visual problems, either. I also really like the look of the guitar. The strap lug nearest the guitar’s neck being placed on the back of the guitar, as opposed to on the side, will take a little getting used to, though. Now we come to the big ones, in my book: playability and sound. First, the neck. Once again, as others have said, the guitar is very easy to play. I was a little worried when I read reviews that described (accurately) the neck as being wider than that of a Les Paul, because I find Les Paul necks to be the perfect size, shape and thickness for my fingers and hands. Even though the Casino’s neck is wider than that on an LP, and probably slightly thinner, I find it very easy to play. Maybe not quite like butter, as others have written, but very easy, all the way up the neck. And the neck itself seems to be straight. I am not the most accurate guitarist, and the Casino is very forgiving in this regard. I think that this might be because the frets are slightly wider apart than on my other guitars, but I have not measured this, and so am not completely sure. By the way, as others have noted, the 'E' for Epiphone, cheaply manufactured and stuck on to the lower corner of the pick guard, is coming unstuck (see photo). Once again, shoddy workmanship that could be so easily prevented. In what seems to be an improvement on some of the Made In Korea (M.I.K.) Casinos, I find that there is very little hum from the two P90 pickups, and no hum at all most of the time. Some amp and pick up combination settings do produce a little hum, but this can be almost totally defeated by changing the guitar and amp’s position in relation to each other. Now, bear in mind that I have a Roland Cube 30, not a tube amp, so I have no idea how this kind of problem might play out (pun intended) with tubes. I can sit right next to my amp, and as long as I position the guitar at about 170 degrees to the amp, I can avoid problems on otherwise problematic settings. The sound of the guitar itself is an interesting subject to me. While one can get a great deal of sonic variation in tone, I think that a lot of this is due to the fact that my Roland Cube has a good variety of amp emulations, and tone and gain controls. Having said that, if I use either the British amp emulation, or even better the ‘Tweed’ setting, I get some really great variations in tone. I’m a huge Beatles’ fan, so it’s really fun for me to be able to get some of the sounds that Lennon, Harrison and McCartney coaxed from their Casinos, although I’ve read that the Elitists are closest to their guitars in this regard (McCartney’s was a slightly different model to Lennon and Harrisons’, too). So, where does that leave me? The Casino archtop is my first hollow-body/semi-electric guitar, and as such partly fills a hole in my requirements of what I want in terms of the types of guitar I own. I really like the versatility of being able to play either acoustically (although it is quieter than an acoustic guitar) or electrically. I must say, though, even putting issues like the machine heads aside, I was initially a bit non-plussed by the Casino. It feels somewhat cheap in its construction in comparison to my other (admittedly more expensive) guitars. Definitely not as individual as my Les Paul Standard, or even my Ibanez RS-440 (Strat copy) – but maybe that is to be expected because the Casino is a much cheaper guitar than the others. I have not yet played an Elitist, and I really wonder about the differences in playability, sound, and construction between the two models. In my research, I noticed that some have said that there is a world of difference between the Elitist and Chinese/Korean made Casinos in the areas I’m discussing. I also wonder if part of my initial reactions in this regard were influenced by the fact that I had never really played a hollow body, and was expecting a solidity of construction that may not be possible (i.e., I’m not sure if a Les Paul neck would be too dense for a hollow body in terms of the weight of the neck throwing the balance off between the neck and the body). A few days playing have, however, been quite seductive for me. There’s something about this guitar that is really getting under my skin. Although when strumming I find that the first and second strings ring out more than the lower strings, when one learns to strum more evenly the tonal balance is very attractive – the lower strings are not at all boomy, and it is very easy to fret chords quickly, despite my fears about the neck being wider. The salesman told me that a friend of his who owns a Korean Casino feels that the Chinese instruments are superior, for what that is worth (I heard that when I went to collect the guitar, not before I ordered it, so that comment had no influence on my purchase). Although the Casino felt a bit generic to me at first, and I was disappointed that I didn’t feel more affection for it off the bat, it is really growing on me, and I will definitely keep it. I can't see an option to add photos to this message - clicking the 'image' icon at the top of the message simply seems to insert some code - so I'd appreciate help with this. EDIT After about a week of Casino ownership I noticed that the 3 screws which hold the truss rod cover just above the nut are not screwed in properly. Unfortunately, two of these screws are covered by the strings, so I will have to wait until I change strings in order to address this problem. Comments and questions welcome. GVDV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan 58 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 First HNGD! Now it sounds like you've been playing for a while, so it surprised me that after playing the guitar out of the box your ready to change tuners. Most people on this forum, I think, would say rip those crap strings off and stretch in a set of good strings and then see what you think. I've had 5 epis and still have 4 and have not had an issue with bad tuners. I might just be lucky, but give it a try,good luck. Stan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaulgeorge Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I'm with you Stan, new strings, properly stretched, worked for me. Although I'll be changing them when my gold grovers arrive as part of an attempt at a John Lennon Replica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvdv Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Hi Stan and JohnPaulGeorge, Thanks for the replies. My first thought was that that strings were overstretched or old, but I don't think that that's the case. However, the tuning issues seem to be fewer than when I got the guitar, so maybe you're right. One other thing I didn't say in my review was the that g string seems to stand out at times - almost like the way one new string can stand out if you introduce it into a set that's been played for a while (e.g. if one breaks a string and replaces it without changing the whole set). The other thing I was curious about was how do I post photos? I've got some beauties of this guitar, but can't see how to post or insert them into my message. Thanks, GVDV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbirchett Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Hi Stan and JohnPaulGeorge' date=' The other thing I was curious about was how do I post photos? I've got some beauties of this guitar, but can't see how to post or insert them into my message. Thanks, GVDV[/quote'] Two ways but for either you are going to have to have them hosted somewhere on the internet. Photobucket it what I use but there are others out there. Then you can use the photo Ico at the top of the message screen. It is the sixth icon from the left or the fifth from the right. When you click it, it will insert the html tags for a picture ([i m g][/i m g]). Then you put the url for the picture between the brackets so it looks something like [i m g]http://www.photobucket.com/ ... .jpg[/i m g]. You need to not have the spaces between the i m and g but if I typed them correctly it would attempt to find a picture. The other way is to type in the url with the html tags. Or Photobucket will list the url with the html tags and you can just paste that. For some reason that has no always come out on other forums so I usually use the image icon. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 One other thing I didn't say in my review was the that g string seems to stand out at times - almost like the way one new string can stand out if you introduce it into a set that's been played for a while (e.g. if one breaks a string and replaces it without changing the whole set). A common "complaint" regarding plain G strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvdv Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Two ways but for either you are going to have to have them hosted somewhere on the internet. Photobucket it what I use but there are others out there. Then you can use the photo Ico at the top of the message screen. It is the sixth icon from the left or the fifth from the right. When you click it' date=' it will insert the html tags for a picture ([i m g'][/i m g]). Then you put the url for the picture between the brackets so it looks something like [i m g]http://www.photobucket.com/ ... .jpg[/i m g]. You need to not have the spaces between the i m and g but if I typed them correctly it would attempt to find a picture. The other way is to type in the url with the html tags. Or Photobucket will list the url with the html tags and you can just paste that. For some reason that has no always come out on other forums so I usually use the image icon. Hope that helps. dbirchett, It does help! Thanks very much. GVDV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvdv Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 A common "complaint" regarding plain G strings. I've never had that problem, actuallly, and have been playing for years. Do you think I should switch to a wound string (as I presume that you meant unwound when you said "plain")? GVDV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 adjust pickup height and pole piece height.. but first change strings. wind them correctly on the tuning pegs.. check bushings for tightness.. tighten rear tuner screws. I like to set my bridge pup for maximum tone and volume without breakup.. but that's easier to do on a tube amp.. listen closely and you can tell a difference with SS too, though. Then I balance in the neck pup... each pup height adjusted as you go.. usually, you can then tweak each pup up or down to get that just right combination sound, without hurting either pups overall tone and strength. Sometimes a slight change in cap value can decrease the G strings power a bit.. but it's the same with most guitars and unwound G strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 I've never had that problem' date=' actuallly, and have been playing for years. Do you think I should switch to a wound string (as I presume that you meant unwound when you said "plain")?GVDV[/quote'] Certainly worth a try. There have been many discussions of this topic (there's one going on now); some love 'em, some hate 'em, some have become converts. You'll need to decide for yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff83/TWANGthang/A33.jpg one of those ought to work.. still working on the catalog pics.. coming soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 ooops wrong thread.. was reading several at once and posted pics in wrong one. d'oh! TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Surprised to hear the tuners are that bad. I have 2 MIK casinos and my bandmate has a natural MIC and they seem to be the same guitar. His does feel a bit lighter and the trapeeze is different with a slight bend at the top and slightly thinner steel. The tuning keys on his seem the same as mine. They are not great but do fine. With a Casino I would go to 11s with a wound G and set the intonation and see what you think then. I think they come with 10s and that is way too light. Construction wise as it is a total hollow body unlike a 335 it will seem much lighter but I don't think this is cheap construction. I like my 2 Casinos but in a band setting stick with 335s and SGs as the warmth of a Casino just does not have the cut for the stuff we do so I never play it live or at pratice except when my bandmate got his MIC to compare. I know guys here have the Elitist and MIK or MIC and I did compare them at one point. The Elitist was more solid but just not that great that I wanted to upgrade, but a Casino is not my main guitar. Had a chance at an older MIJ 3 color burst for $500 with case but passed not really knowing what it was and I had just bought my MIK burst. Did not plug that one in but should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 HNGD, pal. A nice review but a bit disappointing though, in the sense that I expected the "Review of New Casino (Chinese)" to be in Mandarin Chinese :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvdv Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 HNGD' date=' pal. A nice review but a bit disappointing though, in the sense that I expected the "Review of New Casino (Chinese)" to be in Mandarin Chinese :) [/quote'] ??, Biff (apparently Chinese for 'sorry') GVDV :):D/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvdv Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 Surprised to hear the tuners are that bad. I have 2 MIK casinos and my bandmate has a natural MIC and they seem to be the same guitar. His does feel a bit lighter and the trapeeze is different with a slight bend at the top and slightly thinner steel. The tuning keys on his seem the same as mine. They are not great but do fine. With a Casino I would go to 11s with a wound G and set the intonation and see what you think then. I think they come with 10s and that is way too light. Construction wise as it is a total hollow body unlike a 335 it will seem much lighter but I don't think this is cheap construction. I like my 2 Casinos but in a band setting stick with 335s and SGs as the warmth of a Casino just does not have the cut for the stuff we do so I never play it live or at pratice except when my bandmate got his MIC to compare. I know guys here have the Elitist and MIK or MIC and I did compare them at one point. The Elitist was more solid but just not that great that I wanted to upgrade' date=' but a Casino is not my main guitar. Had a chance at an older MIJ 3 color burst for $500 with case but passed not really knowing what it was and I had just bought my MIK burst. Did not plug that one in but should have.[/quote'] Hi, I'm sticking with the 10's on the instrument because I have repetitive strain injuries which make it impossible for me to use anything heavier than 11's for more than a couple of hours. Also, I find that I'm pretty weak in the bending department, and 10's suit me just fine. GVDV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvdv Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 adjust pickup height and pole piece height.. but first change strings. wind them correctly on the tuning pegs.. check bushings for tightness.. tighten rear tuner screws.I like to set my bridge pup for maximum tone and volume without breakup.. but that's easier to do on a tube amp.. listen closely and you can tell a difference with SS too' date=' though. Then I balance in the neck pup... each pup height adjusted as you go.. usually, you can then tweak each pup up or down to get that just right combination sound, without hurting either pups overall tone and strength. Sometimes a slight change in cap value can decrease the G strings power a bit.. but it's the same with most guitars and unwound G strings. [/quote'] Thanks for your reply. Everything seems to be relatively O.K. so I'm reluctant to monkey with stuff. The G string is a problem, though. I've never adjusted the pole pieces before and presume that as one unscrews from one side to another this adjusts the angle of the pickup relative to the strings. Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Thanks for your reply. Everything seems to be relatively O.K. so I'm reluctant to monkey with stuff. The G string is a problem' date=' though. I've never adjusted the pole pieces before and presume that as one unscrews from one side to another this adjusts the angle of the pickup relative to the strings. Is that correct?[/quote'] There is not way to adjust P90s the way you are thinking. The 2 screws hold the PU down to the guitar nothing more not like a HB with surround. You adjust the pole pieces, screws on the PU, try to make sure all strings ring at equal volumes. Best done on amp set clean. I think some guys have said they put foam or something under the PU to raise it some. I have never found the need for more than just the pole piece screws on my 2 Casinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 G'day GVDV, Earlier this year I bought a Casino in VS which was made in Korea. Frankly it was the only guitar out of the range of Dots and Casinos in the store that didn't have a problem that was immediately obvious. Yes shame on Epiphone and on the retailer for presenting product in such a shoddy manner. From my observations so far with this guitar, as with all Epi's you should immediately replace the strings, it makes a big difference. Replacing the top nut with one made of bone has made a worthwhile difference too. I ended up getting a luthier to spend some time on this guitar as I wasn't happy with some of the frets but to take it back to the retailer would have involved 8 hours of travelling (return) and I have no confidence in that retailer anyway. It came to pass that 4 of the frets were lifting and that they had to be removed and reinstalled to make things right. Part of the set up the luthier gave my guitar was to even out the sound level on each string by adjusting the pole pieces (6 little screws) on each pick-up. So my Casino so far has cost me in Australian dollars: Guitar $ 980 Hard case $ 120 Luthier $ 90 Total so far $1190 Considering I went initially to buy a Dot ($700) and ended up with a much dearer guitar because of the poor presentation of the other stock, this has become an expensive exercise and one that has consumed all of my "allowance" from before the start of the year until now. Yes we do get screwed on price in this country for Epiphone guitars, but that is old news. Would I do it all again? Yes I would as I just love that bloody guitar! (I have a Roland Cube too) Good luck. Dig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvdv Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 G'day GVDV' date=' Earlier this year I bought a Casino in VS which was made in Korea. Frankly it was the only guitar out of the range of Dots and Casinos in the store that didn't have a problem that was immediately obvious. Yes shame on Epiphone and on the retailer for presenting product in such a shoddy manner. From my observations so far with this guitar, as with all Epi's you should immediately replace the strings, it makes a big difference. Replacing the top nut with one made of bone has made a worthwhile difference too. I ended up getting a luthier to spend some time on this guitar as I wasn't happy with some of the frets but to take it back to the retailer would have involved 8 hours of travelling (return) and I have no confidence in that retailer anyway. It came to pass that 4 of the frets were lifting and that they had to be removed and reinstalled to make things right. Part of the set up the luthier gave my guitar was to even out the sound level on each string by adjusting the pole pieces (6 little screws) on each pick-up. So my Casino so far has cost me in Australian dollars: Guitar $ 980 Hard case $ 120 Luthier $ 90 Total so far $1190 Considering I went initially to buy a Dot ($700) and ended up with a much dearer guitar because of the poor presentation of the other stock, this has become an expensive exercise and one that has consumed all of my "allowance" from before the start of the year until now. Yes we do get screwed on price in this country for Epiphone guitars, but that is old news. Would I do it all again? Yes I would as I just love that bloody guitar! (I have a Roland Cube too) Good luck. Dig [/quote'] Hi Dig, Thanks for your reply. I'm glad that you got your Casion VS sorted out in the end. One thing I forgot to say in my review is that the frets on mine were perfect - beautifully finished with no hard or sharp edges (unlike my very expensive LP standard). In fact the frets were such a non issue for me that I didn't even think about it for a while. I actually like the strings on my guitar, and as I've been playing it and re-tuning, I think that it's probably that the strings were new which has been a part of the problem. The tuners seem to be holding the strings a bit better now, although they're not great, and I will probably change them at some point. Also, the G string is still a bit of a problem, and I may fool around with the pole pieces to change this a bit as I'm finding the G, B, and E strings are a little too prominent, i.e. there is an unevenness of sound which highlights those three strings in comparison to the lower three strings. I don't think that I'm going to go much beyond replacing the tuners in terms of modifying the guitar because once I get over the $1000 (CAN.) mark I will begin to think of moving into the second part of my original plan, i.e. that is to buy a natural (i.e. blonde) Elitist Casino. Thanks once again for your post, GVDV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvdv Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 To follow up on my original post, I have to say that I'm enjoying the Casino VS tremendously. To quote a Who song, "I think it's love". I really am enjoying everything about the guitar; the sound, the feel, the look. The only thing I really don't like is that when I'm sitting down playing, which I do most of the time, I have to shift the body further to my left ('west') in order to allow me to play/fret certain chords so that I get all the strings to ring properly across the neck. This puts the instrument in an unnatural position for me. It's almost like holding a spanish guitar in the proper position because my left leg, as opposed to the right one, is sitting behind the lower horn. Still, it's great, and I highly recommend this guitar. GVDV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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