epi valve junior (hotrodded) vs Vox AD-30-VT vs Fender blues junior

[mrjones200x]

Hey guys,

 

I own a the Vox, struggling to get the brown sound (If anyone has any settings would be great Van Halen sound ect) so i was looking at getting a Epi valve junior which has already been hotroded with power scaling ect or a fender blues junior.

 

The only thing i can see of obvious is the fender you get a reverb setting which is handy for me as i like to use this settting.

The only real setttings i use from my vox are the reverb delay and chorus. So i;d have to get some pedals for the two other amps.

 

Can play high distortion with the epi with full tone due to power scale but can i with the fender? does it have this function? It says it has a master vol?

 

Any advice between all is helpfull.

 

Cheers

[copper1281734000]

As the brown sound is, be unique, try making your own sound thats signature to you. Don't copy other players sounds. Anyway, it's even impossible to sound like EVH. Different fingers, differents players, you won't sound the same.

 

As far as answering the question goes, the only way to get the true brown sound is to buy a marshall plexi and a variac. But to get close with the vox, pick the uk 70's, crank all the eq's, volume, master volume to max. Adjust the gain as needed. That should get you pretty close and use the output wattage knob on the back to control your volume.

 

As far as the epi and fender goes, I'd say get the epi. I've played the fender one time, and I found it way to bright. I had bass almost all the way up and the treble on 0 and it was way to bright. It could've just been a bad piece of gear, or it just didn't suit my personal preferences.

 

If you got the epi instead of the fender, you'd probably save enough money to buy a good reverb pedal, so I wouldn't worry.

 

And the master volume controls the power amp output. Volume would control preamp distortion, but EVH used lots of power amp distortion.

 

The epi would probably be the best choice, because it would sound the most like a cranked up plexi. You could get the marshall mod and they it would sound even more like a marshall. You vox should get pretty close in tone for that, but nothing sounds like a cranked tube amp. I still think you should stop worrying about sounding like EVH, and just sound good to your ears.

[mrjones200x]

Its not so much trying to sound like him just trying to get a decent distorted tone from my vox. Its ok on the uk 80's with both volumes maxed and add a bit more gain but still sounds thin and fizzy rather than as crunchy as id like. Like his tone in songs like you really got me.

Sounds real thick and crunchy with highs when needed for playing pinch's ect.

 

I genearally play on the 80's setting for most rock stuff and have used the boutique overdrive quite a bit too. You can get a nice rock tone on the metal setting with bass all the way up but need to cut out lots of noise reduction.

 

So would it be wise to get a epi valve junior that has been hotroded or a standard of the shelf one. Theres a company that mod them called rat electronics and its suppose to make the amp sound awsome. but there steep in price compared to an unmodded one.

 

Suppose need to try the fender to see if what you say is true to my ears.

 

Thanks so far

[copper1281734000]

My favorite setting is the max out all the knobs on the boutique clean. It gives a very natural overdrive that sound like a tube amp and interacts with your volume knob. If that's not enought gain for you, try the AC15 or AC30 and crank the volume and gain, but shape the eq the way you want it.

[m-theory]

What is to be the purpose of this new amp? Home practice? Recording? Gigging? Both the vjr and bjr are useable amps in stock form, and both can be made into VERY good amps with some changes. Both will get you a good distorted tone. Neither will get you close to brown, although there are a few pedals that will.

 

Be aware that the master volume in the bjr is NOT post phase inverter, and therefore, will have the tendancy to sound fizzy, particularly at lower volumes. As with any tube amp, the best distorted tones come from overdriving both the preamp AND the output tubes. Then again, if your only prior experience is with solid state, even a low volume bjr will likely be a huge improvement.

 

Output-wise, there isn't a tremendous amount of difference in perceived volume levels of either amp, BUT, you will have a bit more clean headroom with the bjr, which tends to translate into slightly more output, which you would probably notice. Side by side, with both amps cranked, the bjr would be perceptibly a bit louder than the vjr, although speaker selection is a huge contributor to both. The stock bjr speaker is crap, imo, and I'm sure that the stock vjr combo speaker is on par.

 

I personally wouldn't buy a modded vjr, because if you're capable of holding a soldering iron and breathing at the same time, you can modify one yourself, assuming you're fully aware of the proper ways to avoid electrical shock beforehand. All of the knowledge one would need to modify one of those amps to their liking is available here and on the seamps forum.

[Joe G]

Have you tried any of the settings at valvetronix.net?

[mrjones200x]

What is to be the purpose of this new amp? Home practice? Recording? Gigging? Both the vjr and bjr are useable amps in stock form' date=' and both can be made into VERY good amps with some changes. Both will get you a good distorted tone. Neither will get you close to brown, although there are a few pedals that will.

 

Be aware that the master volume in the bjr is NOT post phase inverter, and therefore, will have the tendancy to sound fizzy, particularly at lower volumes. As with any tube amp, the best distorted tones come from overdriving both the preamp AND the output tubes. Then again, if your only prior experience is with solid state, even a low volume bjr will likely be a huge improvement.

 

Output-wise, there isn't a tremendous amount of difference in perceived volume levels of either amp, BUT, you will have a bit more clean headroom with the bjr, which tends to translate into slightly more output, which you would probably notice. Side by side, with both amps cranked, the bjr would be perceptibly a bit louder than the vjr, although speaker selection is a huge contributor to both. The stock bjr speaker is crap, imo, and I'm sure that the stock vjr combo speaker is on par.

 

I personally wouldn't buy a modded vjr, because if you're capable of holding a soldering iron and breathing at the same time, you can modify one yourself, assuming you're fully aware of the proper ways to avoid electrical shock beforehand. All of the knowledge one would need to modify one of those amps to their liking is available here and on the seamps forum.[/quote']

 

Hi, thanks for the replies,

 

Will be used for home practice and that is it, maybe one day might record but not seriously just for own enjoyment.

Have only had experience with a yamaha ga10 (I think) practice amp and my Vox AD-30-VT. Never tried a valve amp yet.

I was thinking of getting just the cab maybe if getting the epi valve junior as i can wire a jack plug to my Vox amp speaker and run the cab through that way. Is that ok to do and will the speaker be up to the job power wise? the epi juniour is 5 watts but as a class A doesnt this mean it'll be as loud as my Vox??

 

Im an engineer so modding one shouldnt be to difficult just thought there was loads and loads to do as regards to soldering ect. Can solder fine by the way. Id really like to be able to play at room volume pushing both the preamp valve and output valve highly to get full tone at an exceptable volume. Would i just need to get power scaling ECT?

 

Can i buy a wiring mod kit or is it easier and cheaper to buy bits and do it from scratch?

 

Mainly id like to know whether my vox speaker will do the trick to run the cab and sound ok or should i just buy the combi?

 

Has the fender blues got any advantages over the epi ecept volume being 15 watts?

 

Any help on pedals to get a brown sound would be great too. Eva to use with my Vox or with epi or fender

 

Thanks again

 

 

Paul

[strangedogs]

a 5-watt Valve Junior will amaze you. Turn it to 10 and the wife and NEIGHBORS will come get ya'! Seriously my VJ gets turned up when my wife goes shopping, etc. Last weekend she came STORMIN' in and told me she could hear me down the block in our SUV with the windows up & the A/C going... It's loud.

 

course my usual response is "THAT'S WHY THEY CALL IT ROCK AND ROLL BABY".

[cGil]

With the mod kits, if you look at it from the parts cost perspective, you're being robbed blind; but what you're really paying through the nose for is just the information you need to do the job, all gathered up nice and neat. You won't often get info needed to do other mods on your own with these kits. But hey, live and learn, right? Many of us got started by installing a mod kit. They all generally have common effect of boosting both confidence and motivation to do your own research, buy your own parts, and do your own mods dirt cheep next time. In the process, you'll learn to troubleshoot, repair, and make amps sound better than when you found 'em. That alone is worth much more than all the money I've dropped along the way on parts. Hey, it's addictive, but it's also productive! What more can I say? :-

 

Gil...

[m-theory]

Just about any tube amp would be a huge improvement over just about any SS amp. A blues jr. would give you a bit more versatility, since it'll actually do reasonable cleans at a useable volume, and it's got a reverb tank. That said, it has some issues that aren't ideal.

 

Things I like about the Blues Jr.:

 

1. small size makes it very easy to tote around

2. decent output makes it very useable for practice or gigging

3. small price makes cost of entry accessible

 

Things I do NOT like about the Blues Jr.:

 

1. The speaker is crap, and must be replaced ASAP

2. The tone stack isn't ideal

3. The output transformer isn't ideal

4. The bottom end can get very mushy/flubby at higher volumes

5. It needs adjustable bias for the output tubes

6. The reverb tank is diminutive, and therefore doesn't exactly produce "surf 'verb."

7. It's an open-back combo...not my favorite at all

 

The good news is that all of those things can be remedied fairly easily, once you get the chassis out. Speaker is simple to replace, tone stack mods aren't massive nor are they at all difficult, the output transformer is useable, if not ideal, the bottom end can be tightened up with tone stack mods and an extra filter cap added, adjustable bias can be added, the reverb tank can be replaced with a better one (Ruby). With those changes, this is actually a very good little amp. With an output transformer change, it can become an awesome amp.

 

 

Things I like about the Vjr.:

 

1. Small size makes it very easy to tote around

2. Small output makes it a strong contender in small venues and settings

3. VERY easy to modify with outstanding results

4. Very small price tag makes cost of entry almost effortless

5. Great tube grind at volumes that won't cause cracks to form in the walls

6. 4/8/16 ohm taps

7. Butt simple

 

Things I do NOT like about the Vjr.:

 

1. Is easily overpowered with a strong drummer

2. Can be too loud for home rehearsal

3. Tube bias is all out of whack from factory

 

 

This amp is incredibly easy to modify, and the proper mods will produce results nothing short of stunning.

 

You can use the speaker in your Vox, but you'll want to be careful about the connection. Tube amp output transformers can be destroyed with a flakey speaker connection. Avoid the flimsy plastic y-cords, and anything that wouldn't be considered road-worthy.

 

I personally wouldn't go the mod kit route, simply because all of the information is so easily available both here and at sewatt, so what you're left with are components that are absurdly overpriced. Once you figure out which direction you want to go with mods, the actual cost of components is almost nothing. I replaced every component in mine for around $20, as I recall.

 

As for brown sound pedals, it doesn't get much better than this one:

 

BSIAB2

 

Try swapping the J201 transistors for 2N5457 for a more "open" sound...this circuit can be a bit "congested" in stock form. Some like it as is, and it does work fine for at-home noodling, but it tends to get buried in a mix, imo, and performs much better with the slighter reduced gain of the 2n5457's. To my ears, that, and a couple of minor tone mods that I made, changed the pedal from a cranked JCM800-ish tone to a cranked plexi-ish tone. Both versions are excellent, however.

[mrjones200x]

Flimsy plastic Y-cords?

 

Are you talking about spade conectors that push onto the tab of the speaker? This is how the vox amp is connected to the speaker.

 

Shall i just solder on the wires?

 

Im off to look at a valve junior head now so hopefully will be coming back with one.

 

Gonna wire two 1/4" jacks to my vox back;

 

1, Speaker out

2, And vox amp out.

 

Too use in like normal vox connect the two and leave or to use with a head connect from head to speaker.

 

Any idea what rating my vox ad-30-vt speaker is in ohms? Looked on it but it doesnt say

 

Thanks

[m-theory]

Flimsy plastic Y-cords?

I'm referring to the Radio Shack consumer patch cables that some use to avoid having to install a jack. My general rule of thumb on anything gear-related is that if it's not something that could be taken on the road and used in front of large crowds at high-profile gigs without absolute certainty of integrity, it's not worth using. With regard to speaker outputs and tube amps, a flimsy connection CAN results in a dead output transformer. I got scolded by my amp tech over this years ago, and it stuck with me. The jack method that you described is the proper way to do this.

 

On your Vox speaker:

 

Power Amp Output: Maximum 30W RMS @ 8 ohms

 

Speaker: 1x VOX original (10 inch 8 ohm)

[mrjones200x]

How about polarity of the speaker?

 

Looked in the back and my vox has 1 black wire and one white to each side of speaker. How can i tell which side will go to which side of jack plug. Anyway of checking with multi meter?

 

Thanks

[m-theory]

Generally, black is negative, and any other color used (green, red, white, etc.) is positive.

[layboomo]

How about polarity of the speaker?

 

Looked in the back and my vox has 1 black wire and one white to each side of speaker. How can i tell which side will go to which side of jack plug. Anyway of checking with multi meter?

 

Thanks

 

Take a small battery ( AA is fine) touch the black wire to - and the white to + if the speaker cone moves toward you white is + if it moves away from you white is - .

[cGil]

Well now there's a tip worth filing away. Thanks!

 

Gil...

[mrjones200x]

Cheers guys.

 

What side of jack plug is + and which is -?

 

I've got a jack socket and i've got one tab which is connected to the long part which springs in as you push in the jack plug and one tab connected to the centre of the socket.

 

Suppose i shold know this really

[cGil]

On a phone plug, the Tip is typically considered "+" and the sleeve is "-". However, that really depends on what it's plugged into, since cables are nothing more than conduits for active circuits. Also, stuff happens at factories, depending on what day of week it is. Might've been a hangover day when your cable was made, and cables can have the wires reversed on one end, so check your cables. Confirm everything with a meter if you're in doubt.

 

Gil...