Ron G Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I have a basic understanding of pickups, being that the pickup's magnetic field is excited (right term?) by the vibrating string, inducing a signal in the pickup's coil, which is processed by the amp. I also understand how sustain is affected by wood and guitar construction. But since a guitar pickup isn't a microphone, how does a guitar's tone (i.e. unplugged) affect its amplified sound? If I bang/tap on my guitar, nothing comes out of the amp...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 It must be affecting the string vibration in some way then, adding or muting overtones and affecting the notorious sustain probably? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Strum Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I'm not sure if this will answer any part of your question, but interesting info just the same. http://www.jemsite.com/jem/wood.htm I am clueless and I started with Googling "types of wood effect on electric guitar" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 I am clueless and I started with Googling "types of wood effect on electric guitar" I tried that, too and remained just about as clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookelputz Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I tried that' date=' too and remained just about as clueless.[/quote'] If nothing else, all the vibration I feel in the neck and body of a good guitar HAVE to be reflected back into the strings in some fashion or other. Because I have guitars that noticeably prefer to play in particular keys (or, conversely, sound less good in particular keys), and since the vibrations I feel in my hands and body also feels different between those guitars, well, I have to believe that reflection would be colored by those same vibrations; I mean it resonants at different frequencies, and dampens or excites different frequencies - and if I can feel the difference through the soft coupling of my hands and body, then surely the hard coupling of neck/tuner/nut/strings/bridge/body will be even more sensitive. Does anybody have a clue what I just said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Yeah..."Good Vibrations,"....;>) Was that done with Fender's, though? LOL! Well, in all seriousness...I don't know enough about the whole process, to comment, much...except that certain guitars just have more presence, than others. And, contrary to popular opinion, it's not always about wood density, or even "tops" or body wood...in "solid bodies." Those are factors, for sure...but, I have a Gibby LP Custom, that sustains for days...and it's HEAVY! I have a Gibby LP Classic, that's very light (chambered?), and it ALSO sustains forever. So...??? Some have stated, that LP Customs are "darker, heavier" sounding, that the Standards, or Classics. If that's true...it's not that evident, to ME. Of course, I used to stand in front of a Marshall Major Stack, so I may not be able to Hear, the difference, anymore. LOL! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burstbucker1281734065 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I think it works this way: The pickup is excited by the vibrations of the strings and turns them into electrical impulses. This includes the fundamental string frequency as well as many harmonics that go along with the plucked string. The harmonics are colored by the vibration of the guitar body which adds to or colors the harmonics the pickup transduces. It all works together. The wood type and its vibration characteristics change the "color" of the signal and give different tones. Maple is "brighter"; mahogany is "darker". The heavier the guitar the more upper range energy it will absorb while sustaining the lower range energy creating a "darker color" to the harmonics and vice versa. The fundamental vibration frequency of the guitars varies again changing the "color" of the sound. This also extends to the pickups themselves and how the vibrations are "picked" up. This is a bit off the cuff evaluating the physics of a guitar vibrating. There are probably some studies on this around if we can find them. Good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Gibson%20Tone%20Tips_%20It%20All%20Start/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/Gibson%20Tone%20Tips_%20It%20All%20Start/ Very interesting...I missed this, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonk Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I used to have a nice link that went into great detail about this subject. Alas I can't find it now, but here are several link that may explain a few things: http://www.pantheonguitars.com/tonewoods.htm http://www.northstarguitars.com/tonewoods.html http://www.esomogyi.com/tonewoods.html http://www.hohnerusa.com/index.php?1498 http://www.ratcliffe.co.za/articles/bodywoods.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Inductive coupling (the moving of a ferrous metal through a magnetic field) transfers string energy to the pickups. The strings are also mechanically coupled to the body through the hardware. Any string vibration creates a sinusoidal waveform (ampitude that rises and falls as the string moves back and forth) that resonates back and forth through the string and throughout the neck and the body. The wave that energizes the wood is reflected back to the strings and re-absorbed again by the wood. The energy reflected from the wood to the strings adds to the string vibration and transfers to the pickup through induction. This happens over and over until the energy in the string dies out. There is a certain microphonic property inherent in the pickups. If you turn the amp loud enough and tap on the pickup, you will hear the tap through the amp. Some of this is vibration transfer to the wood and some is just from the pickup converting the vibration into electrical impulses. Some pickups exhibit this property more than others. I have heard cheap pickups that would pick up a distorted voice if you spoke into the pickup with the amp cranked and some reverb or delay turned on. You can't hear it if you are talking while it is being produced, but the delay prolongs the sound. This is probably due to loose components in the pup that are vibrating with the voice. You can induce a signal into a pickup using an Ipod or anything that uses earbuds. Just place the earbud on the pickup and move it around to find the sweet spot with the amp turned up a little and the music transfers electromagnetically to the pickup. This is a good way to play a song through your amp for the rest of the band to hear during practice if there's not a player around that can plug into an amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 sinusoidal waveform A.K.A. "Sine Wave"? I always thought a pickup was a microphone designed to hear different frequencies of sound other than the human voice? Then again, I've had guitars with pickups so bad (Jackson Kelly), that you could actually talk into the pickup, most notably the bridge pickup, and it would come in loud and proud through the amp (microphonic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 There are a great many opinions and most of them are wrong. At least, those that dogmatically say "this wood makes a guitar sound like THIS and that wood makes one sound like THAT." Wood varies within species a lot, and while a luthier can select wood to his own particular parameters, in the real world of manufacturing it's not possible to control many variables other than the method of construction and the type of pickups used. Wood vibrates, as pointed out by others, which means that it selectively dampens or does not dampen the vibrations of the string at different frequencies, which in turn affects the response of the pickups. If you play an electric without plugging it in, you can almost always get a pretty good idea of what that guitar will sound like amplified, because its characteristic resonance will be reproduced by the electronics. All this is pretty straightforward: the problem comes in trying to predict what combination of materials will make an electric sound a certain way. Again, a luthier with relatively low production may have a handle on it, but once you get to factory made guitars the tolerances grow...this is why it's important to try before you buy. There are thoroughbreds and there are mutts, and the name on the headstock alone doesn't tell you which is which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Theoretically, a guitar pickup should only 'see' the vibration of the string, which is made from a magnetic alloy (nickel and/or steel) so that the magnetized pole pieces will mimic the vibration of the strings. When you vibrate a magnet inside a coil of wire, that generates an alternating current signal that is an electrical analog of the magnet's vibration pattern. Technically a pickup should not be affected by vibrating wood although there may sometimes be a 'microphonic' component. Nonetheless, the strings are coupled physically to the body, and the body will have resonant frequencies where the strings vibration will be damped or enhanced according to these resonances. So the theoretical sine wave output becomes a much more complex waveform with various fundamental and harmonic frequencies being augmented or diminished by the resonant characteristics of the guitar's body. Naturally the type of wood used as well as the specific piece in use and the actual body construction (e.g. chambered) will have an effect on this, which is why certain woods are better for tone than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolver Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Interesting read. Makes me wonder how significant the differences of woods used between Gibby and Epi's can effect the overall tone. Better wood, better tone. I guess, I answered my own question. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Interesting read. Makes me wonder how significant the differences of woods used between Gibby and Epi's can effect the overall tone. Better wood' date=' better tone. I guess, I answered my own question. :D [/quote'] That makes sense, in a way. But...what IS "better wood?" Are some "Asian" woods just AS "toneful," as woods used here? So, are they "as good," or not? Seems like, if a well known tone wood, whatever it was, or it's country of origin, is used, the "wood factor" in the equation, would be less an question? Different, no doubt, but "better or worse?" I've actually noticed more difference in "finish" and pickups, (especially on Thin line semi's, as opposed to solid bodies), than anything. I guess, what I'm attempting to say, is that even with Gibson, or Fender "premium" wood guitars....they aren't always the same resonance...in fact, they can be quite different, one guitar to another, of the same model! LOL....it's an ongoing argument, discussion, and probably always will be. Some "cheap" guitars sound wonderful, some "high end, very expensive" guitars, sound less so. ????????????? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 The following article is very interesting: Stradivarius Wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 That makes sense' date=' in a way. But...what IS "better wood?" Are some "Asian" woods just AS "toneful," as woods used here? So, are the "as good," or not? Seems like, if a well known tone wood, whatever it was, or it's country of origin, is used, the "wood factor" in the equation, would be less an question? Different, no doubt, but "better or worse?" I've actually noticed more difference in "finish" and pickups, (especially on Thin line semi's, as opposed to solid bodies), than anything. I guess, what I'm attempting to say, is that even with Gibson, or Fender "premium" wood guitars....they aren't always the same resonance...in fact, they can be quite different, one guitar to another, of the same model! LOL....it's an ongoing argument, discussion, and probably always will be. Some "cheap" guitars sound wonderful, some "high end, very expensive" guitars, sound less so. ????????????? CB[/quote'] Get real Charlie and quit trying to find ways to validate Epiphones as being anything more than they are which are guitars made in Asia as cheaply as possible with the cheapest wood and hardware they can find and sold on the basis of a reputation that the present ownership had nothing to do with and made by people who are as removed from the original craftsmen as they are from Martians...and not a single one of the Beatles would ever use one of the current products...and they didn't even really care what guitars they played....want to keep it about Epiphones? I can do that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 The following article is very interesting: Stradivarius Wood I read that too. "Since differentials in wood density impact vibrational efficacy and thereby the production of sound' date=' it is possible that this discovery may explain the superiority of these violins."[/i'] Gee..they needed a CT scanner for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 Get real Charlie and quit trying to find ways to validate Epiphones as being anything more than they are which are guitars made in Asia as cheaply as possible with the cheapest wood and hardware they can find and sold on the basis of a reputation that the present ownership had nothing to do with and made by people who are as removed from the original craftsmen as they are from Martians...and not a single one of the Beatles would ever use one of the current products...and they didn't even really care what guitars they played....want to keep it about Epiphones? I can do that... Except for naming a particular forum member, +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Except for naming a particular forum member' date=' +1[/quote'] and I apologize to that member for his name's inclusion in my little truth telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpdeluxe Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 It's easy to explain how the pickup and wood and strings couple to produce a given guitar's tone. What's much more difficult is to predict how a guitar will sound before you build it. I had a friend who was a luthier who claimed he could build an acoustic guitar to get a specific tone, but he also noted that it didn't depend so much on a specific kind of wood as it did on jiggery-pokery and tweaking as he went. The way I look at it, if I pick up a guitar and like the way it sounds, I'm satisfied with its construction. I prefer the appearance of some woods to another, but the guitar itself represents some complex interactions that affect its tone, and after all -- you're not going to buy a Les Paul, and deciding it needs a little "mellowness", delaminate the maple top and replace it with alder. You're miles ahead to trade it for a guitar that's closer to your preferences. Iconoclast, I don't know what you're offering to this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 It's easy to explain how the pickup and wood and strings couple to produce a given guitar's tone. What's much more difficult is to predict how a guitar will sound before you build it. I had a friend who was a luthier who claimed he could build an acoustic guitar to get a specific tone' date=' but he also noted that it didn't depend so much on a specific kind of wood as it did on jiggery-pokery and tweaking as he went. The way I look at it, if I pick up a guitar and like the way it sounds, I'm satisfied with its construction. I prefer the appearance of some woods to another, but the guitar itself represents some complex interactions that affect its tone, and after all -- you're not going to buy a Les Paul, and deciding it needs a little "mellowness", delaminate the maple top and replace it with alder. You're miles ahead to trade it for a guitar that's closer to your preferences. Iconoclast, I don't know what you're offering to this discussion.[/quote'] Reality. I'll give you a dollar if you can say exactly what species of wood your Epiphone is made from...which I know you can't because the product descriptions are so ambiguous that it would be impossible so please don't come off like you actually have any clue about wood's effect on your particular instrument...by the way...your Les Paul's body wood most likely is alder if it isn't lauan and the maple laminate on top is so thin it has little if any effect on the guitar's ultimate tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Get real Charlie and quit trying to find ways to validate Epiphones as being anything more than they are which are guitars made in Asia as cheaply as possible with the cheapest wood and hardware they can find and sold on the basis of a reputation that the present ownership had nothing to do with and made by people who are as removed from the original craftsmen as they are from Martians...and not a single one of the Beatles would ever use one of the current products...and they didn't even really care what guitars they played....want to keep it about Epiphones? I can do that... Come on, Al...tell us what you REALLY think! LOL! Hey, I'm not defending "Epiphone" or any other maker! Just wondering what REAL effects, ANY tone wood has, beyond another. If you've played as much and as long as you elude to, you've no doubt, come across many a guitar, that was a "Dog," regardless of what was on the headstock, or what it was made of, Right?! I just think there's a lot more to it, than wood! Like maybe the way it's cured, cut, assembled, used together, finish, electonics....even age! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Come on' date=' Al...tell us what you REALLY think! LOL! Hey, I'm not defending "Epiphone" or any other maker! Just wondering what REAL effects, ANY tone wood has, beyond another. If you've played as much and as long as you elude to, you've no doubt, come across many a guitar, that was a "Dog," regardless of what was on the headstock, or what it was made of, Right?! I just think there's a lot more to it, than wood! Like maybe the way it's cured, cut, assmebled, used together, finish, electonics....even age! CB [/quote'] Once upon a time there was an evil corporation who thought they could replace Honduras Mahogany (Swietania macrophylla) with furniture grade mahogany (Swietania mahogani) and no one would notice...as a result sales plummeted and the weight of Les Pauls increased by 35% while the resonant tone decreased by half...it was so apparent that the company nearly went under until it was bought by new owners (equally evil but a bit more business savvy) who made a conscientious effort to use actual tone woods in their guitars and the entire company's fortunes turned around..imagine that. My apologies Charlie...I'm a bit miffed at the moment by a company's total disregard for its loyal customers and its abject ignorance in how it approaches a public forum where they should be cultivating public relations not destroying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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