John, Paul, George, Ringo, and Epiphone!!!!!!!!!!

[JefferySmith]

 

That's true but even more for a J160E.

 

I have one as it is the only way to get the "And I Love Her" dry almost unplugged electric tone but lets face it the J160E sucked as an acoustic and sucked as an electric it does neither well. If the Beatles had not picked them and played them they would be in the joke columns in Guitar Player magazine as one of the worst executed ideas ever by a major guitar maker.

I have to admit that I thought it was a freak of a guitar until I saw Lennon playing one. Then it was not only acceptable, it was "fab"!

[Ron G]

They deleted the posts referring to complaining to corporate!!!!! Cute.

[byrds1965]

Well' date=' while it lasts, I have a question. There's been a lot of dicussion, over the

last few decades, as to which guitar was responsible for the "Day Tripper" intro,

and solo work. Some claim it was the Sonic Blue Strat, other's George's SG, others,

his ES-345, and still other's John's Casino. I've read recently, that John played the

Intro, and the Solo! If that's true, it didn't say which guitar he used. Any ideas, or

facts, you might care to share? I've seen numerous discussions on this and no one

seems to have a definitive answer. I know in their "promo" films, for that song, George

is seen with his (new at the time) ES-345. Andy Babiuk claims it was just for "promo"

films! I think Day Tripper was recorded before George got his SG? Not sure, though..

since I wasn't there (lol). And, since Lennon is reported to have played the lead, anyway..

Would it be his Casino, or his Strat?! Doesn't much sound like his Ricky, but..."Who knows?"

 

CB[/quote']

 

I have talked to my buddy, the one who does session work, and Tom Hartman though the Google Groups and this has been argued about for years. Hartman is at the end of the Beatles Gear book met them looked into their storage locker at Abbey Road and has owned all the same gear at some point.

 

There are bootlegs with the backing track. The amps are AC100s, John Ric 325, Paul Hofner bass, Harrison his Tennessean Ringo drums. They played the backing track live so there is no doubt Harrison plays the riff and the volume swells during the solo bit as Lennon just slams on the B chord. The riff is overdubbed a second time and the same guitar plays the solo now over the volume swells played by guitar and riff number 1.

 

I would say it is the 345. I don't care what the books say about when he got the guitar it is a HB guitar. This is the loud guitar with some distortion that doubles the riff and I say it is Harrison. Maybe Lennon came up with the riff and the solo, but I would say Harrison played it. Plus the solo does not sound like Lennon no matter what he later said in interviews. Harrison's solo starts on the riff on B in a different voicing then goes to runs and bends. I just don't see Lennon pulling that off in 65. Lennon plays lead on Get Back and is pretty basic stuff plus his The End solo pretty much matches his early style of rhythm based bashing.

 

The loud riff guitar number 2 is not a Casino, J160E, strat, it could be his Country Gent but I would say the ES345. Unless Norman Smith writes a book or the track sheets surface like they did for the Help album which puts the strats on Ticket To Ride thus making the book dates of the strats arrival off by months there is no reason to think Harrison did not get the 345 sooner than the books claim also.

[layboomo]

 

Hijacked??? with Beatles videos??? a little Nilsson and some slight fun' date=' then right back to topic?

 

Well, alrighty then.

 

I wasn't passing any judgement whatsoever....just trying to explain why they deleted it.....I'm always going off topic.... so I'm the last one to throw stones Revolver. It just seems like they kill the ones with a bunch of back to back you tube stuff??

[byrds1965]

 

Epiphone is just afraid that if you hear about the other brands you might just check them out and see how special the Epiphones aren't.

 

I remember back in the early 80s WGN radio gave out free AM transistor radios to Cubs fans to promtoe the Cubs on WGN but they superglued the dial to 720 so you could not ever find out there were other stations on the dial.

[antwhi2001]

My money is on Byrds' take. I have no inside knowledge or research, but that intro and solo sound semi-acoustic-with-humbuckers to my ears. And more George than John technique-wise.

[charlie brown]

Well, there's a lot of evidence (film and photo) that it was indeed the ES-345...but,

as has been stated, it's been a controversy, almost from the beginning! We may

never know, for sure? But, it's a great song, riff...whatever was used. I too, have

an old J-160E (1954 or '55...I'm not sure), that seems to have the solid spruce top,

(as opposed to the plywood top, of mid-late 1955 on)...and the larger bridge adjust-

ment screws. It's not a bad acoustic, really, but nothing to write home about, either.

It does do "The Beatles" thing, realy well, though. So, that alone, is worth it, to me.

Plus, I got it for 400 bucks, when they were going for 2000, at that time. Long story!

I understand that the newer "Bozeman" versions (with the solid top/different bracing) and not the

actual "Lennon" version that's true to his specs, are pretty good guitars. I don't

KNOW that, as I have never played one, or even seen one, honestly...I see mostly

the Epiphone "Lennon" version, around here. But the J-160E was originally going

to be called the "Les Paul" acoustic, or some such...but Les Paul didn't like the way

it would "feed back" so soon, with the solid spruce top, so he had them modify it,

with a plywood top, to diminish that problem (and...effectively kill it's acoustic resonance).

At least, that's the story, I've heard/read.

 

CB

[gvdv]

Well' date=' while it lasts, I have a question. There's been a lot of dicussion, over the

last few decades, as to which guitar was responsible for the "Day Tripper" intro,

and solo work. Some claim it was the Sonic Blue Strat, other's George's SG, others,

his ES-345, and still other's John's Casino. I've read recently, that John played the

Intro, and the Solo! If that's true, it didn't say which guitar he used. Any ideas, or

facts, you might care to share? I've seen numerous discussions on this and no one

seems to have a definitive answer. I know in their "promo" films, for that song, George

is seen with his (new at the time) ES-345. Andy Babiuk claims it was just for "promo"

films! I think Day Tripper was recorded before George got his SG? Not sure, though..

since I wasn't there (lol). And, since Lennon is reported to have played the lead, anyway..

Would it be his Casino, or his Strat?! Doesn't much sound like his Ricky, but..."Who knows?"

 

CB[/quote']

Hi CB,

Where did you read recently that John played the intro. and solo on 'Day Tripper'? Very interested in this.

 

Also, I have never played a J160E or heard one 'in the flesh', but apparently Lennon used that guitar for the recordig of 'I Feel Fine', didn't he? I wonder if this might be the same for 'D.T.', too.

 

Finally, I remember reading a review somewhere in the last few months which basically said that the 're-issue' J160E's were nothing like the acoustics of the same name used by The Fabs, although they were being marketed like that.

 

Kehew and Ryan apparently are working on a book (after their monumental 'Recording The Beatles') - can't remember if it's about all of the instruments the Fabs used or just the guitars, but one of them did say to me in an email that there are quite a few mistakes in the Babiuk book (not sure if this is true for the updated edition).

[charlie brown]

I read about John playing the lead on one of the

Beatles "facts" web-sites...Can't remember which one,

though. But it had to do with the recording of their songs,

which instruments were used, and by which member.

But, just 'cause it's in there, doesn't make it "accurate!" LOL!

As I stated, not only has the instrumentation been the

subject of much speculation, but even WHO played the

"rif," and solo, too. Every book that comes out, says

the previous book has "mistakes!" LOL! I'm sure

Andy did a LOT of research, but even the people he

talked to, couldn't possibly remember every detail,

40 years later. Unless they had it on paper, to refer to,

anything like that, is "suspect," I'd think.

 

It fun to talk about, none the less...

 

CB

[JefferySmith]

Hi CB' date='

Where did you read recently that John played the intro. and solo on 'Day Tripper'? Very interested in this.

 

Also, I have never played a J160E or heard one 'in the flesh', but apparently Lennon used that guitar for the recordig of 'I Feel Fine', didn't he? I wonder if this might be the same for 'D.T.', too.

 

Finally, I remember reading a review somewhere in the last few months which basically said that the 're-issue' J160E's were nothing like the acoustics of the same name used by The Fabs, although they were being marketed like that.

 

Kehew and Ryan apparently are working on a book (after their monumental 'Recording The Beatles') - can't remember if it's about all of the instruments the Fabs used or just the guitars, but one of them did say to me in an email that there are quite a few mistakes in the Babiuk book (not sure if this is true for the updated edition).[/quote']

In some of the youtube.com videos, John is seen to play the Gibson for "I Feel Fine", but the video is very obviously dubbed in and John seems to be just picking at a chord. The riff at the beginning of the song and the riff after George's contribution in the middle are different, i.e., John seems to have hit a toggle switch before the refrain. I'm pretty sure John's riff is on the Rickenbacker 325.

[JefferySmith]

Well' date=' there's a lot of evidence (film and photo) that it was indeed the ES-345...but,

as has been stated, it's been a controversy, almost from the beginning! We may

never know, for sure? But, it's a great song, riff...whatever was used. I too, have

an old J-160E (1954 or '55...I'm not sure), that seems to have the solid spruce top,

(as opposed to the plywood top, of mid-late 1955 on)...and the larger bridge adjust-

ment screws. It's not a bad acoustic, really, but nothing to write home about, either.

It does do "The Beatles" thing, realy well, though. So, that alone, is worth it, to me.

Plus, I got it for 400 bucks, when they were going for 2000, at that time. Long story!

I understand that the newer "Bozeman" versions (with the solid top/different bracing) and not the

actual "Lennon" version that's true to his specs, are pretty good guitars. I don't

KNOW that, as I have never played one, or even seen one, honestly...I see mostly

the Epiphone "Lennon" version, around here. But the J-160E was originally going

to be called the "Les Paul" acoustic, or some such...but Les Paul didn't like the way

it would "feed back" so soon, with the solid spruce top, so he had them modify it,

with a plywood top, to diminish that problem (and...effectively kill it's acoustic resonance).

At least, that's the story, I've heard/read.

 

CB[/quote']

I was hoping that the book "Here, There, and Everywhere" would include which guitars were used for which songs, but Geoff Emerick seems to be a bit distant from guitars. In fact, other than saying that Paul used a Rickenbacker bass for some of the studio recordings, he mentions very little of which guitar was used for which song.

[charlie brown]

Actually, that "I Feel Fine" riff, is done out of a barre chord (d) with some "pinky finger" movement,

so it's quite possible he IS playing it, that way. The "feedback" at the beginning was originally done, or discovered

and later added, by John's J-160E leaning against an amp, and when Paul hit his bass guitar's "A"...it made

John's guitar's A string feed back. (This is all in the Anthology)...so, it's quite possible they

used that same guitar, in the recording and/or "live!"

 

CB

[JefferySmith]

Actually' date=' that "I Feel Fine" riff, is done out of a bar chord (d) with some "pinky finger" movement,

so it's quite possible he IS playing it, that way. The "feedback" at the beginning was originally done, or discovered

and later added, by John's J-160E leaning agains an amp, and when Paul hit his bass guitar's "A"...it made

John's guitar's A string feed back. (This is all in the Anthology)...so, it's quite possible they

used that same guitar, in the recording and/or "live!"

 

CB[/quote']

I just wonder if they could get that sound from an amplified acoustic, and wonder how they got two very different sounds from the same amplified acoustic.

[layboomo]

I just wonder if they could get that sound from an amplified acoustic, and wonder how they got two very different sounds from the same amplified acoustic.

 

 

This is George Martin we're talking about after all..........he was a genius!

[charlie brown]

Well, if you listen to it, closely...it's very possibly his J-160E. I have

gotten that same kind of tone, out of mine. And, with the addition

of George's "Tennessean," it might be all they needed? It does

sound "thinner" in the breaks, but that could be attributed to George

playing the lead pickup on the Gretsch, and John not playing at all, or

light chords, behind it...I'll have to go listen, again..LOL! But, it's clearly

double tracked or double leads, at times. The actual Solo...sounds more

like a Gretsch, on the Neck pickup, and is more like "Georges" playing style,

than John's, as well. So..???

 

CB

[flyingfrets]

Some years ago, I stumbled across an exact match for the Day Tripper tone using a Gibson solidbody (an Explorer reissue of all things) with a Bartolini Hi-A pickup at the neck. Neck pup full on, bridge pup a hair over a quarter volume. I think we can safely assume George wasn't using an Explorer, but the tone is definitely from an HB pickup. To my ears, too full to be a Strat, but in fairness, I saw Beatle Juice 6 or 7 years ago, and their guitar player nailed the sound with a Strat, so it's all as clear as mud, eh?

[pohatu771]

I've played it with my Strat through a Fender bass amp, with neck and bridge pickups, and thought it sounded very close to the recording. I've also played it with my friend's SG through my Valve Junior, on the bridge pickup, and thought it sounded just as close.

[charlie brown]

Yeah...LOL...this is the problem...there's probably a lot of ways to get really close, to even "dead on"...

and, let's not forget the "board" mix...too. Who knows what was added, there?

 

CB

[layboomo]

I just wonder if they could get that sound from an amplified acoustic' date=' and wonder how they got two very different sounds from the same amplified acoustic.[/quote']

 

BTW Jeff ...your new avatar....one of the most under-rated guitar players ever...sad in his later years...but a mofo none the less. I saw him blow George Benson of the stage quite easily once....and enjoy doing too!

[byrds1965]

Hi CB' date='

Where did you read recently that John played the intro. and solo on 'Day Tripper'? Very interested in this.

 

Also, I have never played a J160E or heard one 'in the flesh', but apparently Lennon used that guitar for the recordig of 'I Feel Fine', didn't he? I wonder if this might be the same for 'D.T.', too.

 

Finally, I remember reading a review somewhere in the last few months which basically said that the 're-issue' J160E's were nothing like the acoustics of the same name used by The Fabs, although they were being marketed like that.

 

Kehew and Ryan apparently are working on a book (after their monumental 'Recording The Beatles') - can't remember if it's about all of the instruments the Fabs used or just the guitars, but one of them did say to me in an email that there are quite a few mistakes in the Babiuk book (not sure if this is true for the updated edition).[/quote']

 

A J160E has a very woody sound like a fat old hollowbody plugged in. Like the sound on "I Feel Fine" not the tone of DT. You can find the bootlegs of the backing tracks and remember that they are tracked live so all 4 were playing at the same time on that BT you have John Ric, Paul bass, Ringo drums and George what sounds like his Tennessean.

 

They then overdubbed a srong semi distorted 2nd riff solo guitar. I still say ES345. As you can't get an AC100 to distort at studio volumes I'm betting Norman Smith let the board on the U47-48 mic pad go into slight clipping and going to tape not digital you get that nice compressed distorted sound you can't get today on digital it would just be spitty. Geoff was not the only one to get killer sounds but he never wrote a book.

 

The J160E is confusing you have several out. The new stock line Gibson is an X braced solid top guitar and is really a souped up J45 with a P100 PU. Sounds nice acoustic but will not sound like the Beatles. The Lennon Peace out now has a plywood top, ladder bracking and a P90. This is what they had in the Beatles and does sound like a J160E. The final one is the same as the Lennon sig but in the heritage series. Mine is burst and Gibson told me mine was left from the burst Lennon run but no sig but all the same stuff.

 

Wanting that tone because of the Beatles I bought that one. It sounds like a loud unplugged electric and plugged it is not great but that is the only guitar that can nail that tone. Like I said if those songs were not famous and that tone such a part of them the J160E would be in the joke columns like Ford and the Edsel. It designed as a do everthing model and in reality it did it worse than either thing it was trying to be. The Beatles saved it from being a joke and even Harrison would not touch his after Pepper. He still had his but I really doubt he played it after 1967. I have not heard every Harrison solo track but that guitar would jump right out and I have never heard it on anything he did later on.

[byrds1965]

I just wonder if they could get that sound from an amplified acoustic' date=' and wonder how they got two very different sounds from the same amplified acoustic.[/quote']

 

CB is right it is the J160E. Lennon plays the riff out of barre chords. The solo is doubled by Harrison they both are playing the same thing. I know it is mono but you can hear Lennon's sloppy picking and Harrison's sharp execution if you listen hard you'll hear a bit of lag or phasing effect on the guitar solo.

 

On Anthology you can see them do the song on NME live and Lennon does play the J160E plugged in and Harrison uses his Tennessean and that is the same sound as the record. Later on Lennon played it on Casino and Ric and didn't bother in concert to plug in his J160E. One show he plays the Ric for "I'm a Loser" instead of the J160E. Help he plays his Ric on the recording he played that acoustic 12 string. Since he knew a J160E sounds nothing like an acoustic plugged in why bother.

 

A J160E sounds like an electric plugged in a very woody old fat hollow body. Trust me I own a plywood J160E with a P90.

[flyingfrets]

A moment of unfettered silence so I can insert a word from our sponsors...

 

EPIPHONE, EPIPHONE, SIS, BOOM, BAH!!! ROCK 'N ROLL & LOUD GUITARS, RAH, RAH, RAH!!!

 

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[byrds1965]

Hi CB' date='

Where did you read recently that John played the intro. and solo on 'Day Tripper'? Very interested in this.

 

.[/quote']

 

That quote comes from the Playboy interviews. I have the paperback book that has the complete interviews done for that 1980 issue and is in the section where they go through the songs one by one asking who wrote did what. Lennon is quoted as saying on DT "That was mine the riff solo whole thing......."

 

Lennon is also quoted in the same place on "And Your Bird Can Sing" ........."Not mine, piece of rubbish"

John knew he wrote the song but obviously did not like it so I would not put too much faith in some of the answers he gave in 1980 now if it had been 1998 when you were really looking back on your career. 1980 was still too soon to have that kind of reflection on the past.

[JefferySmith]

 

CB is right it is the J160E. Lennon plays the riff out of barre chords. The solo is doubled by Harrison they both are playing the same thing. I know it is mono but you can hear Lennon's sloppy picking and Harrison's sharp execution if you listen hard you'll hear a bit of lag or phasing effect on the guitar solo.

 

On Anthology you can see them do the song on NME live and Lennon does play the J160E plugged in and Harrison uses his Tennessean and that is the same sound as the record. Later on Lennon played it on Casino and Ric and didn't bother in concert to plug in his J160E. One show he plays the Ric for "I'm a Loser" instead of the J160E. Help he plays his Ric on the recording he played that acoustic 12 string. Since he knew a J160E sounds nothing like an acoustic plugged in why bother.

 

A J160E sounds like an electric plugged in a very woody old fat hollow body. Trust me I own a plywood J160E with a P90.

I've got the anthology but haven't looked at it in a while. Once I start, I'm hooked. That happens also with series "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". Start watching it, and it's like a Twilight Zone Marathon or a Dirty Harry Marathon.

 

I'll defer to the two guys with that Gibby. John does seem to be using it whenever they play that song live (or dubbed live). I thought I found one video on youtube.com with John playing the Rickenbacker 325, but it turned out to be a copycat group (the Beatels?).

[Revolver]

What happened to The Beatles Thread?! Not

enough mention of "Epiphone Electric Guitars"

no doubt?! That's #$%^& amazing!

 

John' date=' Epiphone '65 Epiphone Casino (Sunburst, then "Natural")

Paul, Epiphone Casino, with more "Gibson" like, headstock..(Sunburst)

and Epiphone Texan, acoustic....(Natural)

George, Epiphone Casino, with Bigsby...(Sunburst, later "Natural"...like John's)

 

The Beatles, are more responsible, for Epiphone's success, than any other

SINGLE Act, in History! So, why a thread, about them was deleted, is

incomprehensible, to me! [/quote']

 

I've really been thinking about it, perhaps we were being too hard on the Moderator. This person has got a job to do and is instructed by the company to remove threads when they hit certain areas of discussion and go too far off topic. I don't question Epiphone's loyalty or love for The Beatles, I think it all depends on a threads starting title or intended direction. For example, if it's just aims to talk about the bands history rather than guitar tone using Epiphone's back in the day then it probably does belong on a 'Beatles fan forum', after all this is the 'Epiphone Electric' guitar forum.

 

Again, I am almost positive if the topic genuinely involved Epi's in regards to the discussion of any bands musical creation I know they would have no problem with it, especially The Beatles. With all the great knowledge at this forum, it can only help anyone brand new coming in for the first time to learn about these things they are most excited about. Making music and Epi guitar tone!

 

I am not sucking up here, but I did give it some serious thought and I want to be fair. Now fire up those amps! plug in! and ROCK on! It's a great place!