iansmitchell Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 No' date=' it is softer than alder. Grained on the surface like mahogany, but soft enough to shave with a knife, rather than splinter. It looks like any old white punk wood, but it is not brittle like the firs or spruces can be, i.e., it doesn't chunk under a blade like a lot of stuff. I think it is scrap wood of the same asian "mahogany" stuff the top and back were made out of. The outside 2 pieces and the center piece are definitely red mahogany, and even though glued together from 6 pieces of wood (not all of which are the same wood) any lawyer could say "solid mahogany body" with a straight face because there is no plywood (or MDF), and it is definitely solid and it definitely has mahogany in it![/quote'] Basswood maybe? Agathis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookelputz Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 I think one or the other is highly likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Gibson only states on certain models(i.e. custom shop) that they use hunduran there. If you ask me' date=' I think they've largely switched to african mahogany at this point in time, if not actually resorting to asian suppliers.[/quote'] Correct. Gibson is part of the Rainforest Alliance which protects harvesting (at least legal) of any Honduras Mahogany still out there. They might still have a bit of it for necks as it is the most stable wood for necks and some for backs/sides of their custom flattops. If you see ribbon striped mahogany on solid bodies, that's the African variety. Gibson still use korina (limba) AFAIK. For a while a few years ago, they used all sorts of interesting woods (Smartwoods), such as Chetchen (alternative to rosewood), They even had a LP Smartwood Standard in '98. Mind you, there is no way any smartwood can compare to flamed maple cap...and some exotic wood LPs made of Mahogany backs, curapay fingerboards and tops made from rare and beautiful exotic wods such as ambay, banara, caricharana, guasa, peroba or tapervya, each harvested from a sustainable forest in Paraguay with some of the proceeds going to the Rainforest Alliance. Stew-Mac is still advertising " traditional South American " for dreadnought back/sides so obviously it is still available at a premium price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfrets Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Just for perspective...how many of us eat hot dogs, bologna or salami...or even better...scrapple? Do you like them? Can you really say you know what the hell's in them? But you eat them anyway, right? One certainly has the option of buying the "premium" bologna for $7.00 a lb and the butcher will even tell you the name of the dachshund he ran through the slicer to get those delectible slices of meaty goodness, but most of us (especially those of us on budgets) buy the $2.99 "God-Only-Knows-What's-In-There" brand. Slap a little mustard on there and you & your "modded" sammich are good to go. Same goes for your guitars...if you're on a budget and "good" will have to do instead of "best," you buy an Epi. You may not know what it's made of, but it'll sound pretty good. You want it to sound a little better? Drop some new pickups in there. If you want to be sure exactly what's in your guitar, and/or you just can't live with anything less than the best, buy the "premium" Gibson. But you know you'll be paying a "premium" price for it. We've debated/questioned/*****ed about what Epi builds their guitars out of at least as long as I've been around this forum and Epi's still not tellin' or changing the practice. Don't expect them to anytime soon either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 No' date=' it is softer than alder. Grained on the surface like mahogany, but soft enough to shave with a knife, rather than splinter. It looks like any old white punk wood, but it is not brittle like the firs or spruces can be, i.e., it doesn't chunk under a blade like a lot of stuff. I think it is scrap wood of the same asian "mahogany" stuff the top and back were made out of. The outside 2 pieces and the center piece are definitely red mahogany, and even though glued together from 6 pieces of wood (not all of which are the same wood) any lawyer could say "solid mahogany body" with a straight face because there is no plywood (or MDF), and it is definitely solid and it definitely has mahogany in it![/quote'] I thought we discussed this a few weeks (months?) ago. It could be Agathis (kauri), which is a waxy wood similar to white pine as it's a conifer. My Epi LP Custom has that wood, softer than alder but certainly not the mahoganies that I'm familiar with like Luan which has a reddish tinge to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 If you're going to buy an Asian guitar (of any brand) you're entering a lottery as far as wood quality goes. Quality is variable but value for money is generally good. That's the problem with Epiphones in the standard line. I am lucky being in the Chicago area and being about 2 miles from both a SA and a GC. Epiphone makes consistant guitars using stock stuff but sometimes you get one that is better than the sum of the parts. I have bought all my high end Gibson/Epiphone stuff from local guys but my G400s when I get them have to go to GC or SA to play all they have and find the best one. My local stores can only usually stock one model at time or maybe one or two in back. I'm like RotcanX in that I have owned several G400s though the years and Gibson SGs. Every time I get a G400 I have to play a pile of them to find one I can deal with. The hollow body stuff doesn't seem to very as much as the solid body stuff. I would feel safe ordering online a Gibson or Elitist if I had too, but not a standard Epiphone model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennW Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 That is what I found beneath this: I recently got two of those, a one with a P-90 and a one with a HB...both are plywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CajunBlues Posted August 6, 2008 Author Share Posted August 6, 2008 Speaking of exotic woods.... Here is my Gibson Les Paul Zebrawood. Its a keeper... I am very glad I bought it... Soon after I took this photo, I installed Gibson 57 Classics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ef_in_fla Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Zebra pickups with Zebra wood. Makes sense. Nice axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sentry Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Hahahahah... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhGJQ6TjrCQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 it's an Indonesian variety of wood that is referred to as 'industrial mahogany' simply because the grain is reminiscent of genuine mahogany. The only 'real' mahogany on an Epi is the veneer of African mahogany that they apply to the back of the body. If you want a real mahogany guitar you need to get at least an Elitist which is solid African mahogany with a solid maple cap. Indonesian or Philipino mahogany are as much a real mahogany as the African or Honduran. But generally speaking Honduran offers the better resonant qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Gibson uses Honduras mahogany pretty much exclusively. They wouldn't be caught dead using the Indonesian stuff. I understand there hasn't been a decent slab of Honduran since the 70s... IMO It's one of the reasons Gibson refrains from specifing what mahogany is used. Currently they will admit to using South-American mahogany at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 So what the f*** is wrong with a solid alder body? I paid good money for a solid alder strat body and got a great result with it. I wouldn't turn my nose up at a solid alder LP body. Also' date=' you can great a great guitar with a 3 piece body (if the wood is good) and a crap guitar with a 1 piece...if that 1 piece is crap. None of this is an exact science. [/quote'] Nothing wrong with alder, but I don't think it will work for a genuine LP-sound. Good point. With 200 species of mahogany, about 60 species of maple IIRC. Different woodquality, woodselection, amount of slabs used, workmanship and construction per each factory... There's just too many factors weighing in to make statements of truth. General assumptions yes, truth definitely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 My Epi LP Custom has that wood' date=' softer than alder but certainly not the mahoganies that I'm familiar with like Luan which has a reddish tinge to it. [/quote'] FWIW It also comes in a white variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Zebra pickups with Zebra wood. Makes sense. Nice axe. Where is the matching strap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smerdlap Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Basswood maybe? Agathis? well if they're really cheap, then they might as well use pine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 When you buy guitars in this price range you pretty much get what you pay for, don't expect expensive wood in an inexpensive guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 If in fact that Dot I owned had an indonesian mahogany center block' date=' I really can't complain since I felt that wood had a lot to do with the great tone and sustain of that guitar.... [/quote']Yeah, I had one of those too. Then I tried an Elitist, which has the 'correct' maple center block. So THAT's what great tone is; the Elitist rings like a bell. Needless to say I sold the dull-sounding Dot post haste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 FWIW It also comes in a white variety. Right. but it's still Luan or Phillipine "mahogany", not the real traditional mahogany which is from the South America of"sweitania" species. Luan also spelt lauan can be any one of several species (~200) from four different genera. They range in color from a very pale tan (white mahogany) to dark cocoa and the grain can range from bold like oak or pine to subtle grain and nearly uniform like mahogany. It can be nearly as light as balsa or almost as dense as teak and duarability varies as well. So the "mystery wood" of our Epis is still remains as "asian variety", because only the factory that made it may know, and maybe only the wood procurer for that factory may even know the genera..or probably they don't care. Epiphone is not the only manufacturer of guitars to have this mystery wood situation..other brands that are made offshore probably are faced with the same dilema. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Correct. Gibson is part of the Rainforest Alliance which protects harvesting (at least legal) of any Honduras Mahogany still out there. They might still have a bit of it for necks as it is the most stable wood for necks and some for backs/sides of their custom flattops. If you see ribbon striped mahogany on solid bodies' date=' that's the African variety. Gibson still use korina (limba) AFAIK. For a while a few years ago, they used all sorts of interesting woods (Smartwoods), such as Chetchen (alternative to rosewood), [/quote'] Actually, incorrect. Honduran mahogany is still widely available but, as part of International trade agreements, any such wood has to be proven to come from plantations as the natural wood growing in forests is protected. However there is a lot of this 'legal' Honduras mahogany available, although it is not considered to be as good as the old growth 'wild' stuff that Gibson used to use. I'm not seeing any African mahogany in Gibson guitars; the pattern would be hard to miss. You pretty much only see African mahogany on Elitists. Gibson uses Korina very seldom these days, as in very expensive limited edition Explorers and Flying Vs in the multi-thousand dollar price range. The standard Explorers and Vs are all mahogany now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 well if they're really cheap' date=' then they might as well use pine :- [/quote'] Pine would really look nice and be a lot lighter, but not as resonant. Wasn't there a link to some guitars made from IKea tables on this forum not that long ago? Hardwoods still seem to be the preferred choice for the bodies, but they do use sitka spruce for close grained tops on acoustics..why not a glue a few spruce 2x2s together and slap on a maple cap and see what comes out? :- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Indonesian or Philipino mahogany are as much a real mahogany as the African or Honduran. But generally speaking Honduran offers the better resonant qualities. No, I'm afraid I can't agree with that. I've posted full information on this previously. In a nutshell, these woods are from completely unrelated species and they are only considered as 'mahoganies' from a trade definition point of view; as far as the lumber industry is concerned they're not even close. Anyone who has marginal experience with the genuine mahoganies can tell at a glance that these woods are not related and are similar to mahogany in only the barest superficial sense. The quarter grain, for example, is completely different and completely lacks the delicate figuring of genuine mahogany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Actually' date=' incorrect. Honduran mahogany is still widely available but, as part of International trade agreements, any such wood has to be proven to come from plantations as the natural wood growing in forests is protected. However there is a lot of this 'legal' Honduras mahogany available, although it is not considered to be as good as the old growth 'wild' stuff that Gibson used to use. .[/quote'] Ok, I stand corrected, Spud. I should have checked up on the plantation Honduras mahogany sources first, I guess. From internet sources, they seem to have some in the Carribean and S.A. Although now it probably takes many years for a genuine sweitenia mahogany tree to grow (30-50yrs?) to get any sizable lumber from it, but with plantation tree management, at least the world's supply for guitars and other uses will still be available for future generations, even if it's becoming more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansmitchell Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 well if they're really cheap' date=' then they might as well use pine :- [/quote'] Some violin makers have in recent years seen pine to be among the finest tonewood for upper midrange and high sounds, while yielding the least nasal tones. So it wouldn't be the worst thing, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Just for perspective...how many of us eat hot dogs' date=' bologna or salami...or even better...scrapple? Do you like them? Can you really say you know what the hell's in them? But you eat them anyway, right? One certainly has the option of buying the "premium" bologna for $7.00 a lb and the butcher will even tell you the name of the dachshund he ran through the slicer to get those delectible slices of meaty goodness, but most of us (especially those of us on budgets) buy the $2.99 "God-Only-Knows-What's-In-There" brand. Slap a little mustard on there and you & your "modded" sammich are good to go. Same goes for your guitars...if you're on a budget and "good" will have to do instead of "best," you buy an Epi. You may not know what it's made of, but it'll sound pretty good. You want it to sound a little better? Drop some new pickups in there. If you want to be sure exactly what's in your guitar, and/or you just can't live with anything less than the best, buy the "premium" Gibson. But you know you'll be paying a "premium" price for it. We've debated/questioned/*****ed about what Epi builds their guitars out of at least as long as I've been around this forum and Epi's still not tellin' or changing the practice. Don't expect them to anytime soon either. [/quote'] I'm liking this analogy....in the "guitar deli" epi is the bologna of guitars and gibson is the pastrami on rye....or something like that! How much is it for a side of cole slaw and a kosher pickle?:- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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