dubstar Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 "Obviously, this forum has deteriorated quite a bit, since it's (new) inception back in January." I don't agree with this statement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suicidehummer Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I generally don't' date=' but this one got to me. As far as I'm concerned, if you guys want to buy and promote fakes, go ahead!.. it's your money to waste! But at least have a shred of respect for the fine people that gave you this venue to squawk, complain, trade insults, post stupid pics that have no reason to be on this forum, and other such juvenial matters. I think I've had enough.[/quote'] Umm, you didn't notice he hated it? So wouldn't that mean he was promoting Epis if anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Here's my take: We need to nuke the jerks making these fakes' date=' not the threads telling people not to buy them. Just my opinion.[/quote'] I couldn't agree more. Actually I the original post about the G*****n fake wasn't saying to go buy one, quite the opposite. He just said that with quite a bit of work the guitar would be okay. I have really wondered how good/bad these fakes were, but I would never take a chance on one. I thought it was good to read a post about a actual expereince. He knew it was a fake before he bought it. Before coming to this forum a couple of years ago, I would never have been able to spot a fake Epi. However I would have been really speptical about seeing a G****n for $300. This forum has helped me to spot them, and I am grateful for that. As for the threads here, I just pick and choose the ones I want to read, I don't read them all, I don't have the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 ..snip!...about the first post' date=' he did us a service, and said don't buy,witch makes the psst comment void. now if he were on this forum selling that guitar as real then he would have a point "to ban " but this is a place to share our likes and dislikes and that is what he did, that is a far cry from " hay man have i got a deal for you "if you are going to spend 2$ or 20,000$ do your homework and you will be better off does anyone think it'll all go away if we close our eyes tie our hand an button our lips! by talking about it you ARE part of the solution! a warning how would that help on this thread[/quote'] No the fakery won't go away and Gibson/Epiphone obviously have a major concern on their hands. I'm sure there is a proper way of exposing fakes on this forum, and maybe the other poster was trying to accomplish that, but the format of the post could have been better..although he did say to "stay away" in bold letters. My apologies to Big Norm if that was the intention. A warning might help.... such as " Warning: Fake G*bs*n/Epiph*ne evaluation or something to that effect that the evaluation was to expose fakes and not promote them in any way because they seem like bargains compared to authentic ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roswell Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Why does there need to be a warning? It's implied anyway. It's very clear he's talking about a fake, the title even says that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Much to my embarassment I've bought a fake Epiphone Les Paul last year. I hardly even knew they existed before joining this forum. I wished I had read a few of these 'fake or not'- threads. I really love reading about Carvermans guitarprojects, but I don't agree with him on this one. I'll support any thread that will help(if only one person) to distinguish between a real Epiphone and fake-crap. (Fake crap like the set of Burstbucker Pros I bought last month. Almost bought another set of (presumably)fakes last week. Seller wanted to meet some place and when I urged him to send it by parcel he blew it off... I'm really getting sick of these ƒ-holes abusing other peoples naivity) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Carverman (a real first name would be nice, though), Even with everything that's been said so far, I'm still unclear as to what you'd like to see accomplished. Is it - A separate venue for fakes? - A prescribed format for fake threads? - Prohibit threads about fakes? Or what? Ron BTW: I'd really miss your expertise and humor if you left the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 As idiotic as it may sound, I never even considered the existence of fakes until I came here. I love reading the threads and trying to spot the differences. Never needed a warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 Why does there need to be a warning? It's implied anyway. It's very clear he's talking about a fake' date=' the title even says that.[/quote'] Wow, this thread I posted is getting a lot of mileage! Because he's using the facilities of a Gibson/Epiphone forum and there should be a format established if you want to do that. It doesn't matter that it says "Fake Gibson" or whatever. Suppose the poster had a favorable review, then would the buying public still think twice? How many readers or possibly resellers would there be buying these fakes to sell on the online sites.... (not mentioning names anymore). The price does say it all though..fakes are cheap. However, I wouldn't buy one to hang on my wall and joke about it...I'd rather put that money towards a good used Gibson or Epiphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roswell Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Just because this is an Epiphone forum doesn't mean the discussion has to be completely about Epiphone guitars only. He posted a thread about a fake he bought to see how it compared to the original. Many of us have wondered this, and if it turned out to be decent quality, oh well, that's how things work. There's no reason to censor discussion because one user has a problem with what many people consider very helpful and informative posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad1 Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Because he's using the facilities of a Gibson/Epiphone forum and there should be a format established if you want to do that. WHY???? Why must there be a format established for that??? Because he's using the "facilities of a Gibson/Epi forum? So what, what does that have to do with anything?????????? And why would Epiphone/Gibson care???? And why do you care more about what Gibson thinks than the members on here????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I read the whole thread and the fake threads should stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 Carverman (a real first name would be nice' date=' though), Even with everything that's been said so far, I'm still unclear as to what you'd like to see accomplished. Is it - A separate venue for fakes? - A prescribed format for fake threads? - Prohibit threads about fakes? Or what? Ron BTW: I'd really miss your expertise and humor if you left the forum.[/quote'] Thanks Ron. It's Dan..and I've been a Gibson/Epiphone fan/player for over 40 years. To answer your question, Ron, it should be a " prescribed format" for posting reviews on fakes. Pictures are ok, if it shows the poor quality of these fakes compared to the real genuine article. ie: Fake Gibson LP...here's what you definitely don't want to see. 1a. Any perceived promotion of the fake but exposure that it is a fake. 1b. The price..if it's too good to be true..then it is! 2. Headstock trademark violations (front overlay, trc cover and phony numbers/stampings on back) 3. Send an alert to Gibson (or Epiphone if applicable) and let them decide what to do with the source of the faked guitars with trademark violations...they have a factory in China and elsewhere in Asia, so they should be able to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roswell Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 In other words, censor it so that it's displayed negatively towards a genuine regardless of if that's true or not. As for dealing with it, the copyrights are probably only valid in the United States/EU anyway. It's extremely hard to shut illegitimate foreign sources down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Wow' date=' this thread I posted is getting a lot of mileage! Because [b']he's using the facilities of a Gibson/Epiphone forum [/b]and there should be a format established if you want to do that. It doesn't matter that it says "Fake Gibson" or whatever. Suppose the poster had a favorable review, then would the buying public still think twice? How many readers or possibly resellers would there be buying these fakes to sell on the online sites.... (not mentioning names anymore). The price does say it all though..fakes are cheap. However, I wouldn't buy one to hang on my wall and joke about it...I'd rather put that money towards a good used Gibson or Epiphone. This forum debates pro's and con's of a wide range of guitar-related topics; why single out this particular topic? Dubious advice is given freely here about guitar models, pickups, bridges, tuners, nuts, woods, ad nauseum. Ultimately, it's up to the reader to try to make sense of it. Same thing with fakes. It may be interesting to note that a good deal of Epi-bashing goes on here without censorship or the collapse of the division. Dan, I still don't understand why you feel sooooo strongly about this particular topic. And please don't take this too personally, but why do you think the Gibson company needs your help in this matter? Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 It may be interesting to note that a good deal of Epi-bashing goes on here without censorship or the collapse of the division. Dan' date=' I still don't understand why you feel sooooo strongly about this particular topic. And please don't take this too personally, but why do you think the Gibson company needs your help in this matter? Ron[/quote'] Epi bashing (if I may use that term loosely), if done constructively may have a positive effect on the guitar or whatever the issue is through discussion from a wide range of forum members, who actually may have some valid opinions in the matter. As far as the fakery, the Gibson company has been around long enough that it doesn't need my help, but posts done in this manner should be done in such a way that it shows respect for the people that came up with the original idea, and not the blatant copy cat numerous fakers out there that are just interested in a quick buck. I can't retract my original post anymore, so it looks like I will have to "face the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune"..or saber and cutlass attacks on what I was trying to state originally. Look, it's a free world today in this online "global economy", so one can buy whatever one wants like be it genuine or an imposter, real mahogany/maple cap or simulated woodgrain and MDF. But... Why stop there? ..buy some Chinese cars, and other commodities that may be of dubious quality too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Just because this is an Epiphone forum doesn't mean the discussion has to be completely about Epiphone guitars only. Actually' date=' it has to be completely about [b']Epiphone electric guitars[/b]. That is the one given here, and that's why Beatles threads get deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roswell Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Actually' date=' it has to be completely about [b']Epiphone electric guitars[/b]. That is the one given here, and that's why Beatles threads get deleted. I meant that the topic has to be exclusively about it. There are many threads here concerning things relating to them that are still around (e.g. pickguards, straplocks, Bigsbys, etc.) The (current) Beatles thread is still here too :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 I meant that the topic has to be exclusively about it. There are many threads here concerning things relating to them that are still around (e.g. pickguards' date=' straplocks, Bigsbys, etc.) [/quote'] IMO, Talking/asking questions about accessories should be fine, if the guitar they are going on is a genuine Epiphone and the improvements accentuate the playing style or looks of these fine instruments. We've all done that..p_ups, tuners, bridges and even strings. There is a choice to be had with these and the merits/pros/cons should be discussed so that any problems are avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheX Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Too many rules, why can't we talk about other things *and* Epiphones and enjoy each others company because share this one common interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Strum Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Four pages for this????? You don't like the music, change the station. It's as simple as that. If something bothers "you" (as in anyone), don't read it. You have people that want to ban string threads, people that want to ban this and that. It's conversation, if it doesn't suit you, move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 #1) Asking for Moderator intervention is courting didaster. Has anybody noticed how nice it's been the last coupla weeks or so that threads haven't been deleted? #2) As far as I'm concerned, it's a "fake" if it doesn't say "Gibson" on the headstock and wasn't made in Kalamazoo or Nashville. Look how often members have been disabused of the notion that an Epiphone is a Gibson with a different headstock. As much as we'd love to have absolute and authoritative identification of counterfeits, none exists. But it's good that we are asking and trying. More information is ultimately better than less, or none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 EDIT: As a suggestion to Gibson/Epiphone Admins of this forum' date=' a new rule should beadded to block postings from Carverman! :- [/quote'] There are times where we as individuals need to accommodate the thoughts of others whether we agree with them or not. This forum could easily reduce to a slanging match if we allow it to and isn't it better to let something that annoys you slide right on by without comment? I for one appreciate Carverman's contribution and reject the kind of post that urges someone be blocked without a hell of a better reason than what has been said here. We are supposed to all be adults ~ Dig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietrich Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I've read almost all of these posts (on the 4th page now!) and I can see some of both sides. On one hand, why do we need more rules? No need for me to elaborate on that statement. I'd be just as happy here with an 'anything goes' policy, regarding topics at least somewhat related to Epiphone. But I wonder if what Dan is saying can be explained like this? Giving a lot of thread-space to fake Epi or Gibsons might be the same as giving frequent reviews (pro or con) of Agi!e guitars. We could present the topic however we wanted, but if the result was pages of discussion concerning that brand, then I guess it would be in violation of what Epi prefers. But swinging back again, I'd rather wait to be told to knock it off, than ask for more rules to be put in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I would like to think that Epi completely condones the "fake Epi" threads, just for the lone fact that money spent "accidently" buying a fake could have been spent buying a real Epi. The bottom line is that it is good for the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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