Mr. E Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 i want to adda 5 rotary switch, but after i heard some recordings i did with a mean 90 i decided to do something different. i got a on/off/on switch, a tone cap, one pot and i wired it for this: vol. pot (full) turns to tone/ bypass vol./ vol (adjustable). i did alittle wiring cause the wiring i had before was for a on/on and i have an on/off/on. here it is: the middle position (bypass) sounds the same as the one with only vol. shouldn't it sound hotter? sorry for the mess on the diagram, i did it in less than 2 minutes help please, thnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shartom Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Not sure what you are trying to do. Run it by us again. Your drawing is too faint to make out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. E Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Not sure what you are trying to do. Run it by us again. Your drawing is too faint to make out. i used this to start off my diagram' date=' maybe this one easier... i DO think it is better to understand than my drawing, lol. Note: the switch and the pot are seperate (no push/pull). its a mini switch AND a pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 i used this to start off my diagram' date=' maybe this one easier... i DO think it is better to understand than my drawing, lol. Note: the switch and the pot are seperate (no push/pull). its a mini switch AND a pot. You are using a push pull switch diagram which is a on-on with the two center terminals common, on a on-off-on dpdt toggle? By adding the red line, it appears that you have bypassed the vol control. If looking at the above diagram, say the top two terminals are "ON1", and say the bottom two are "ON2". The middle position on the mini- toggle switch may be "OFF" but the middle terminals and the red wire are still connected. So from what I can make of it, the top two terminals (ON1) connect the humbucker to one side of the volume and the center tap of the volume goes to the output jack. Flipping the switch the other way (ON2) connects the humbucker to the output jack directly and the tone cap to the centre tap of the volume pot to provide the tone control aspect. EDIT: The only way I can see it working (on1 = volume control, off = full volume from pickup, on 2 = tone control, is to rewire it so that on your particular toggle..the pickup goes directly to the output jack and a wire comes from the output jack to on1 on one side of the switch and common on the other side. In the on1 position the wire from the output jack goes to on2 and the common of one side, the on2 side is left open. On the other side of the switch the output jack goes to common and then to the On2 position which connects to the cap which connects to the center tap of the volume. Only the center tap (variable resistance tap) and one lug that connects to ground is used on the volume pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. E Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 You are using a push pull switch diagram which is a on-on with the two center terminals common' date=' on a on-off-on dpdt toggle? By adding the red line, it appears that you have bypassed the vol control. If looking at the above diagram, say the top two terminals are "ON1", and say the bottom two are "ON2". The middle position on the mini- toggle switch may be "OFF" but the middle terminals and the red wire are still connected. So from what I can make of it, the top two terminals (ON1) connect the humbucker to one side of the volume and the center tap of the volume goes to the output jack. Flipping the switch the other way (ON2) connects the humbucker to the output jack directly and the tone cap to the centre tap of the volume pot to provide the tone control aspect. EDIT: The only way I can see it working (on1 = volume control, off = full volume from pickup, on 2 = tone control, is to rewire it so that on your particular toggle..the pickup goes directly to the output jack and a wire comes from the output jack to on1 on one side of the switch and common on the other side. In the on1 position the wire from the output jack goes to on2 and the common of one side, the on2 side is left open. On the other side of the switch the output jack goes to common and then to the On2 position which connects to the cap which connects to the center tap of the volume. Only the center tap (variable resistance tap) and one lug that connects to ground is used on the volume pot. [/quote'] sorry, i cant picture in my head what you are saying. i haven't slept in 24 hours (10 minutes more and it will be 25 hours). can you be as most specfic as possible. maybe even use the diagram i sent you and just edited it with Paint. i really want to finish this up today do i could go to sleep. help me out. thnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 sorry' date=' i cant picture in my head what you are saying. i haven't slept in 24 hours (10 minutes more and it will be 25 hours). can you be as most specfic as possible. maybe even use the diagram i sent you and just edited it with Paint. i really want to finish this up today do i could go to sleep. help me out. thnx[/quote'] Sorry Mr. E..I don't have Paint on my computer, but I drew it out on a piece of paper, the way... I *think* it should work and took a picture of it..here it is. I haven't actually tried it out myself, but if it was me trying to do the same thing with a mini-toggle (on-off-on) and I wanted the exact 3 functions, I would try it this way...no guarantees that it will work, as I haven't had a chance to test it. My on-off-on mini-toggle is used as a phase switch on one of my custom made LP type guitars , so it isn't quite the same configuration as what you are trying to do..and I don't have a DPDT mini-toggle that is on-off-on right now to test the wiring diagram..just on-offs. EDIT: I just thought of something. Generally, pickups want to see some kind of resistive load..like a 500k vol pot across them. You may need to add a "load" resistor between the output jack and ground, higher than the value of the pot (500Kohm?) because resistors in parallel (pot and load resistor) will halve the value of the pot. Maybe try a 1 megohm resistor to start with..that's the input impedance of most tube amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 OK I'll try again to get you to learn switch functions .......by adding that red line you are wiring the pickup to the output jack regardless of switch position! You need to take a meter and find out what poles are connected in each switch position and then map out your circuit BEFORE you even touch any tools. To put it another way....even though the center 2 poles on your switch may not be connected to anything in the off position,by making that connection with the red wire on that pole you are not doing anything with the switch to break that connection in the other positions.....so your pickup is wired straight through to the jack at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacBratt Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Even I can see what's wrong there, by adding the red wire you short circuited everything and all the pots and caps don't matter at all! At least, that's how I see it. Been a while since I studied the laws of Kirchhoff - and I don't remember if it's the first or the second one either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. E Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 i just tried your wiring and it didnt work quite fine. i double checked everything and i got hum and the switching wasnt quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 i just tried your wiring and it didnt work quite fine. i double checked everything and i got hum and the switching wasnt quite right. Did you ground everything with the shield wire that has the ground symbol (triangle multiple lines)? Did you try soldering a "termination resistor" on the output of the pickup to provide a load impedance of at least 470Kohm?... as it's a lot trickier when the pickup goes straight out to the jack. The pickup is a signal source and this is a high impedance circuit with the amp input impedance being anywhere from 470Kohms to 1meg ohm on some tube amps. A toggle with a "center off" leaves the amp's input hanging wide open = HUM! I just can't see how you are going to get 3 distinct functions on a on/OFF/on toggle. Maybe the push=pull is a better idea. Perhaps use a separate a spst mini toggle to bypass the the volume control and go straight out to the jack with the push pull "in" which should be the normal (vol adjustable position). Leave no inputs/ outputs unterminated..otherwise you are going to get hum..it's unavoidable i n this configuration as the amplifier input (guitar cord) needs to be terminated at all times..or taken to ground via a kill switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. E Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Did you ground everything with the shield wire that has the ground symbol (triangle multiple lines)? Did you try soldering a "termination resistor" on the output of the pickup to provide a load impedance of at least 470Kohm?... as it's a lot trickier when the pickup goes straight out to the jack. The pickup is a signal source and this is a high impedance circuit with the amp input impedance being anywhere from 470Kohms to 1meg ohm on some tube amps. A toggle with a "center off" leaves the amp's input hanging wide open = HUM! I just can't see how you are going to get 3 distinct functions on a on/OFF/on toggle. Maybe the push=pull is a better idea. Perhaps use a separate a spst mini toggle to bypass the the volume control and go straight out to the jack with the push pull "in" which should be the normal (vol adjustable position). Leave no inputs/ outputs unterminated..otherwise you are going to get hum..it's unavoidable i n this configuration as the amplifier input (guitar cord) needs to be terminated at all times..or taken to ground via a kill switch. i think i might just wire it to vol/off/tone. less of a hassle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 i think i might just wire it to vol/off/tone. less of a hassle What carver and I were trying to explain to you is that you are shooting yourself in the foot with the off position on the switch. What you really want is just an on/on dpdt switch....as seen on the original drawing with the push pull/vol/tone control. I'm really not trying to be a jerk,but you are taking a "what happens if I do this" approach instead of understanding the basic switch mechanics. There is a reason why most switches select between 2 options...when you introduce a third position it's alot more involved to make sure the circuit is properly grounded etc...etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. E Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 What carver and I were trying to explain to you is that you are shooting yourself in the foot with the off position on the switch. What you really want is just an on/on dpdt switch....as seen on the original drawing with the push pull/vol/tone control. I'm really not trying to be a jerk' date='but you are taking a "what happens if I do this" approach instead of understanding the basic switch mechanics. There is a reason why most switches select between 2 options...when you introduce a third position it's alot more involved to make sure the circuit is properly grounded etc...etc...[/quote'] i actually want the on/off/on so i could have an OFF position to turn the guitar off and sometimes as a kill switch if i feel like using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shartom Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I think that if you had made that statement in your initial posting a lot of time would have been saved. A simple pull switch on one of the pots would have accomplished the standby function. I was the first to respond to your situation. A simple switch will eliminate the tone pot. I did this on my Tele in order to break glass.......just kidding. You can also bypass the volume pot so that you are running directly from the pickup to the amp. Some guys don't use the guitar's volume pot at all, so this might be a good compromise. I don't think an on/off/on switch will do what you want. Off means none of the above will be selected, and it certainley won act as a stanby switch for your guitar. You might be able to accomplish this with a rotary switch, but is it worth the hassle? Get som sleep, it is the long weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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