aero1281734089 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Hello Guys Just wondered if you could help on an issue which has been bugging me. I bought an EPI Black Beauty from ebay but am unsure about its block inlays. They are all plain solid white. I thought these would be pearloid white with a swirling pattern in them. Images on the internet show as the latter type. I then think I have bought a duff copy and not the real thing, although the serial number checks out as does the binding and feel of the guitar. MY son has an EPI LP Standard bought from a main dealer some years ago with the trapezoid patterned inlays. This guitar still looks and plays great. so as a comparison I am a little dis-appointed with the BB's looks. The headstock on the BB reads as "Les Paul Custom". Also should it have read as "Les Paul Black Beauty". Your opinions would be welcome. Thanks & regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munky Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Hmm. Sounds dodgy to me. Post some pics and someone here will be able to give you a definitive answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ef_in_fla Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The inlays on my BB and my LP Custom have a definite pearloid look to them. Post some photos of the entire guitar so we can see what's what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Hello Guys Just wondered if you could help on an issue which has been bugging me. I bought an EPI Black Beauty from ebay but am unsure about its block inlays. I thought these would be pearloid white with a swirling pattern in them. Images on the internet show as the latter type. I then think I have bought a duff copy and not the real thing' date=' although the serial number checks out as does the binding and feel of the guitar. MY son has an EPI LP Standard bought from a main dealer some years ago with the trapezoid patterned inlays. This guitar still looks and plays great. so as a comparison I am a little dis-appointed with the BB's looks. The headstock on the BB reads as "Les Paul Custom". Also should it have read as "Les Paul Black Beauty". Your opinions would be welcome. Thanks & regards [/quote'] Is it the MIC or MIK Epi LP Custom (BB)? Probably shouldn't make much difference, as most of these are plastic now (MOT). I got mine on EBay and it does have the plastic "figured" position markers, but they could be using a more plainer variety of MOT on some of them. I doubt that you going to find real MOP in those now. The older MIK models may have had those at one time, but in recent years, its plastic or better known as MOT (mother of toilet seat)..a pun based on some toilet seat rings manufactured a few years ago that had that "marbelized effect". The only way you are going to get real MOP is to order a set of LP Custom MOP blocks, Stewart-Macdonald does sell these and I got a set for my first custom LP that I made. (#0972 White Pearl @$36 a set, or #5683 gold pearl @$42 a set, or better still some nice green abalone @$50 a set (of 10 precut blocks). Real pearl comes in white (plain) and figured, which is a lot nicer. So besides the cost of the real MOP, you have to either remove the pearloid (MOT) from the fingerboard and epoxy glue in the new blocks, then sand them down flush with the fingerboard, or get a luthier to install them for you at $10 or more per block. MOP is not cheap anymore, so Epiphone have to cut corners somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero1281734089 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Hello Thanks for the replies. I have taken some pictures but cant figure how to insert in the reply. Could somebody let me have the procdure. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Hello Thanks for the replies. I have taken some pictures but cant figure how to insert in the reply. Could somebody let me have the procdure. Thanks The way I insert mine inline is: 1. create an free acct on www.photobucket.com 2. Upload the image (click on reducing it to 480x 640 pixels..or use a tool to reduce the size of the image..the image name should end in ".jpg" (kilobits) and not ".jpeg"..which is in megabits. 3. Once the image is uploaded to your photobucket acct. look underneath the photo to see a line with "IMG code" in it. here's an example:IMG]http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb302/carverDan1/EmpII-JoePass.jpg%% and here's what this line does: 4. Go to Edit in your browser, click on"COPY" to save it into your browser temporarily, 5. Don't quit out of photobucket, but go to the window with Epiphone forums and the reply you are typing to post to this forum. 6. Go in Edit on your browser and click on "paste" to paste the URL (universal resource locator) to your photobucket link with the picture you want to show. 7. If you have actually saved the IMG file from your photobucket acct, it should now appear inline with your posted text when you "post" it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I'm not sure about the TRC. You mentioned the guitar was purchased on Ebay. By any chance was it shipped to you, new, from China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I'm not sure about the TRC. You mentioned the guitar was purchased on Ebay. By any chance was it shipped to you' date=' new, from China? [/quote'] JC The new ones ( LP Custom BB) on MF now show "Gibson" on the the 3 screw TRC. My 2005 MIK (Saien); sn starts with "I"xxxxxx , 3 screw TRC has "Les Paul" in script and "Custom" silkscreened on it. (I bought it on E-Bay). It's anybody's guess what the ones coming out now will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin134 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 trc may read les paulcustom instead of black beauty. mine was bought from a dealer and does say custom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero1281734089 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 I have now uploaded the pictures and hope they show up ok. Pics should give you an idea of my concern on the block inlays. The Epi BB was purchased via a UK selller on ebay with direct shipment from China.I received the Epi booklet and warranty card with it. Guitar has 3 humbuckers so I assume it is a BB. Just cant understand why it does not have the shimmering effect inlays unless it is a dud. Any further comments would be appreciated Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero1281734089 Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Further to my earlier info, I have just checked the serial number again. It says the guitar was made in the Epiphone plant in Qingdao, China in January 2007. I bought it in April 2008. Seems like a long time between manufacture and final sale. I guess anybody can stamp a duff serial number on a headstock. So in my case it is difficult to seperate fact from fiction, but I suppose thats the risk from buying on ebay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The reason I asked if it was shipped from China is because there are several sellers on Ebay that sell fakes. They are shipped directly to you from China, via a seller somewhere else. I can't be sure about this one, but I have to tell you that red flags are going up for me. Could you take some more pics, the headstock and a pic of the serial number. It is easy to put a legit serial number on a fake. Some of the fakes I have seen use a different font and color for the serial number. The tuners don't quite look like the Grovers that Epi puts on. It could be the light, but the washer under the nuts look like there is a slight circular indentation around the nut. The washers should be flat. That just doesn't look right to me, but then again it could be the light. I also see what you mean about the inlays, even though they aren't "pearl" and are pearloid, they usually have some kind of a shimmer to them. Who was the seller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Further to my earlier info' date=' I have just checked the serial number again. It says the guitar was made in the Epiphone plant in Qingdao, China in January 2007. I bought it in April 2008. Seems like a long time between manufacture and final sale. I guess anybody can stamp a duff serial number on a headstock. So in my case it is difficult to seperate fact from fiction, but I suppose thats the risk from buying on ebay. [/quote'] Tuners (Jinho asian Grover style) and TRC silk screen printing look exactly like mine, which from the "I" serial number was "supposedly" made in the Saein factory in Korea 06/05. I got mine on E-bay and was concerned that it was a fake initially, but the sn seemed to indicate that it was "possibly or probably" made in Korea. Mine was made in June of 05, and I bought it last August (07) so that's about 2yrs of lying around in a warehouse somewheres. As far as the markers..they are probably metallic looking plastic. EDIT: if you go to "the LesPaulForum and look at the Gibson version of the Les Paul Custom BB, you will notice that the TRC gas only "Les Paul Custom" on the the two screw Gibson style TRC...so the "black beauty" is a moniker given to the 3 pickup version of the Les Paul Custom as far as I can tell. http://www.lespaulforum.com/slubarticle/custom/custom.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The older MIK models may have had those at one time Nuh-uh. Some of the older Epis used a metallic-looking silvery plastic. Now they use the MOT stuff. Maybe they used the silvery stuff since it would more closely mimic MOP. Even Gibson only put MOP on the Customs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 The Epi BB was purchased via a UK selller on ebay with direct shipment from China.I received the Epi booklet and warranty card with it. I'm sorry. We had several threads on this in the past. 'Shipping direct from China' is almost garanteed fake. We'll need some more pics to be sure. If it's any comfort to you. You're not the first, nor will you be the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Nuh-uh. Some of the older Epis used a metallic-looking silvery plastic. Now they use the MOT stuff. Maybe they used the silvery stuff since it would more closely mimic MOP. Even Gibson only put MOP on the Customs. Thanks RotcanX. This got my curiosity going..so I used a exacto knife edge to test the edge of one of the position markers on the MIK Samick '95 Joe Pass..it's confirmed as metallic looking plastic...not even as good as the older version of MOT that had at least a random marble effect to the grain in the plastic. My 2005 Epi LP does at least have that. I'll fix up my previous post to remove all reference to actual synthetic pearl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I used a exacto knife edge to test the edge of one of the position markers on the MIK Samick '95 Joe Pass..it's confirmed as metallic looking plastic...not even as good as the older version of MOT that had at least a random marble effect to the grain in the plastic. So now we have to distinguish between real MOT or fake MOT?? Or is it original MOT and VOS Reissue MOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 So now we have to distinguish between real MOT or fake MOT?? Or is it original MOT and VOS Reissue MOT? Let's call it "man made materials" to distinquish from all those poor shellfish that have been harvested, eaten and their shells being sold for premium prices. Like everything else, when production can't keep up with demand..substitute for cheaper materials when possible and keep going. "Real" on asian made guitars seems to be a misnomer..like that "faux gold" that they apply to everything and it wears off after a couple weeks. "Real asian mahogany "wood in the bodies is another ... or is it some mystery wood? As long as it looks good, available at discounted prices, and available in unlimited quantities on line or E-B*y...will the buying public really care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero1281734089 Posted September 1, 2008 Author Share Posted September 1, 2008 Hello JCwillow/Carverman I have attached a few more photos of the headstock, the body and the serial number. The guitar was bought from an ebay seller called Chrishop83, who surprise surprise, is no longer registered. As regards the washer issue, my son's epi standard has small flat silver washers but my BB has larger raised washers. I have opened up the 3 pickups and they are all engraved epiphone on the metal underside. see photo of one of them. Incidentally, I was in a guitar shop today, an Epi LP Standard in sunburst caught my eye, saw it was being sold as secondhand, and it had plain inlays just like mine !!!!! What is going on????? Let me have your comments. Thanks & regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
booster Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I have a wine red custom with the same EE type serial number as yours, but the inlays on mine have the swirls in them and look totally different to the inlays on yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Nice pics. I put up a pick of the headstock of a BB from MF. Notice the difference. The diamond comes down much lower. Three white lines in the inlay around the headstock. TRC is different, not just the name but where the screws are. Quite an angle on "Epiphone" on yours. I hate to say it, but I think you may have purchased a fake. In the future I would recommend NEVER buying from someone that is shipping directly to you from China. I have seen several companies selling Gibson, Fender, Epiphones, etc. for about $300 new - FAKES. If it looks to good to be true, it probably is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aero1281734089 Posted September 1, 2008 Author Share Posted September 1, 2008 Hi JC Thanks for the comment and your pics. I have just checked the headstock on a few BB's offered on ebay UK right now, and they are fairly similar to mine. Also looked up the Thomann website. This is a great site, can get pinsharp closeups and 360 degree rotation on certain guitars so you can see virtually all aspects of a body. Problem is that this seller is so dammed expensive. The headstock on that BB is similar to what I have. The obvious conclusion as you rightly mentioned is that if you really want a specific model, then get it from main dealer, so you dont waste time afterwards thinking is it real or is it fake. My next purchase wont be from ebay, thats for sure. Many thanks to all the contributors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ef_in_fla Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Neither of my customs have a headstock that looks like the one posted by jcwillow. Both are closer to aero's, but have the TRC from jc's. Here's one from Sweetwater: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Aero, the headstock of your guitar looks exactly like my LP Custom and that's a certified fake. The binding is even sloppier looking on yours. The Epi stamp on the pickups is looking very suspicious and is missing the F(front) or R(rear) designation to the left. A pic from the controls-routing and the neck PU cavity could reveal some more. Thomann is among if not the cheapest in Europe. If I'd found it any cheaper I'd be very suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Hello JCwillow/Carverman I have opened up the 3 pickups and they are all engraved epiphone on the metal underside. see photo of one of them. Incidentally' date=' I was in a guitar shop today, an Epi LP Standard in sunburst caught my eye, saw it was being sold as secondhand, and it had plain inlays just like mine !!!!! What is going on????? [/quote'] The p_ups look like mine.."authentic" Epiphone asian clones, but mine have the F & R designations stamped and a sticker to indicate the type of pickup and where it is suppose to go on the Epi LP Custom or a DOT. I worried about it being a fake as well when I first got (E-Bay), but after doing some mods to it..I don't worry about it anymore..it's playable and can be a lot of fun with my electronic sustainer installed in it. Welcome to todays reality, Aero. Epiphones made in asian countries will have some compromises in materials to keep the selling price down.,,which appears to be going up. Plastic inlays, mystery wood (alder?), faux gold..that isn't real gold and rubs off as soon as you polish it a few times. But...it's still a half decent LP and it still is playable once the frets are set up, ...so if it were me, I'd wouldn't lose any sleep over it, worrying about these minor things that I have no control over.:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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