Gibson vs Epiphone, the eternal argument

[Nic]

I have always loved my Epi's and appreciated their value, but I always thought that eventually I would replace my Epi's with Gibsons.

 

I've had my eye on a Gibson CS 336 that was available new for $2200. I finally put together the cash and went off to buy it. I also decided to take my Epi LP Ultra II (Modded with SD pups) so i could test the two guitars sided by side, just to make sure the GIbson really was that much superior.

 

I was very surprised to discover that there wasn't that much difference in the tone or the feel. Really no difference in the feel, the Epi craftsmanship was better, but the Gibson tone was a little better, or should I say just a little louder. So I turned up the amp with the LP.

 

Needless to say I walked out of the guitar shop with my EPi, $2200 in my pocket, and a fully cured GAS attack.

[charlie brown]

Well, good for you! That's often the best way to cure GAS! I've had that experience, too...

Although not between Gibson and Epi....just wanting some guitar and then actually playing it,

was enough, to quell the lust, so to speak. ALWAYS a great idea, to go play one first, before

you buy...especially if you're looking at something "on-line!" Try to find it locally, first...so you

can play it. I've saved a bunch of money, simply doing that. Of course, in all fairness, I have

to say that I have lusted even more, for some guitars, after playing them. So, it works both

ways. LOL!

 

CB

[AS90]

I suggest you go and compare your Epi to a Gibson Les Paul, you cant compare two totally different guitars. It takes a few days to really appreciate the difference, I like Epiphones but Gibson Les Pauls and SGs really are a lot better. Epiphone semis are awesome though.

[JefferySmith]

I have always loved my Epi's and appreciated their value' date=' but I always thought that eventually I would replace my Epi's with Gibsons.

 

I've had my eye on a Gibson CS 336 that was available new for $2200. I finally put together the cash and went off to buy it. I also decided to take my Epi LP Ultra II (Modded with SD pups) so i could test the two guitars sided by side, just to make sure the GIbson really was that much superior.

 

I was very surprised to discover that there wasn't that much difference in the tone or the feel. Really no difference in the feel, the Epi craftsmanship was better, but the Gibson tone was a little better, or should I say just a little louder. So I turned up the amp with the LP.

 

Needless to say I walked out of the guitar shop with my EPi, $2200 in my pocket, and a fully cured GAS attack.

 

[/quote']

The last time I went to GC, I took very close looks at the displayed Gibsons. Of course they looked much worse than my Epiphones because of all the fingerprints and bumps from careless shoppers. But I did have two Gibsons that I bought inthe 1960's, and today's Epiphone Elitists have nicer workmanship. Even the non-Elitists look nice, but so do many of the electrics coming out of China and Korea.

 

I have two Gibson Hound Dogs and a Gibson mandolin, but I don't know if I'll ever buy another Gibson electric. I thought my next purchase would be an Elitist Sheraton before they were discontinued, but they have been backordered for an eternity and I am pretty sure that MF will change their "Arriving 9-12-08" to "Discontinued". So, my my next serious purchase will probably be a Heritage H55 (like a 335 with bound f-holes, ebony fretboard). If you still have your $2200, that Heritage is just a smidge more expensive, with a HSC.

[JefferySmith]

I suggest you go and compare your Epi to a Gibson Les Paul' date=' you cant compare two totally different guitars. It takes a few days to really appreciate the difference, I like Epiphones but Gibson Les Pauls and SGs really are a lot better. Epiphone semis are awesome though.[/quote']

The only Gibby that I have been considering of late is a Les Paul Studio. I planned to get a doublecut right about the time of Katrina, but Katrina derailed that. GC had a floor model with the toggle switch broken off. If I owned a guitar store, I would strangle the customers.

[carverman]

[so, my my next serious purchase will probably be a Heritage H55 (like a 335 with bound f-holes,

ebony fretboard). If you still have your $2200, that Heritage is just a smidge more expensive, with a HSC.

 

Aren't those basically "Gibson" clones with different headstock and tailpieces?

But they are made in the old Gibson Kalmazoo factory that started it all and some

former Gibson employees bought from Gibson during the move to Tennessee.

 

Beautiful American made guitars though. Some models (won't mention them

here), look (a bit) like the Gibson ES-175, others like ES-335..and one that could

be even similar to an L5.

There could be some special mojo associated with these though.

I'm sure that Ted McCarty still walks the floors of the old factory overlooking

the production.. There is something mystical about the heritage of these,

made in the old Gibson factory.

[Just Strum]

So' date=' my my next serious purchase will probably be a Heritage H55 (like a 335 with bound f-holes, ebony fretboard). If you still have your $2200, that Heritage is just a smidge more expensive, with a HSC.

[img']http://www.jhalemusic.com/heritageLrgSold/H555FrontBody.jpg[/img]

 

I just downloaded their catalog, there's some serious GAS producer there.

[charlie brown]

Oh, I don't know....I'm not convinced, that OLD Gibson's were any better, than the current crop.

Everyone has this "mojo" thing, for the old guitars, but in fact, there were a lot of not so great

Gibson (and everyone else) guitars, back then. Old guitars (thanks in no small part, to the Japanese)

have taken on mystical proportions, due the the "Vintage" craze, that the Japanese, in particular,

initiated, back in the early to mid '80's. Before then, you could buy ANY Gibson, Fender, Gretsch,

Ricky...whatever, for a "used guitar" price. After the marketing people saw what the Japanese

were willing to pay, for OUR guitars...especially the "Old" ones, all Hell broke loose, and most of US

can't afford OUR guitars, much less our Vintage varieties. Not "blaming" the Japanese, here...just

stating the obvious. Demand (False or otherwise) dictates price...especially in a limited market, as

the old Les Paul's and Fender (Pre-CBS) were. So, Jeff and others, make a good point, in that Epiphone

guitars, are as well made, as Gibson ever was! The difference, really, is original materials, NOT "workmanship!"

The materials, even..for Japan, aren't that different, if at all. In China, yeah...or Indonesia, for sure! But,

given the same materials, they'd produce identical quality...maybe even better? Who knows? Gibson,

and some other "American" companies, needs to decide if they want to sell to the public, or the Elite!

If they want to be "Elitist," then price everything at 10 Grand, up! Make a REAL "Status Symbol!"

Might as well, for all the good they're doing most "working" musicians! I own a BUNCH of Gibsons...BUT,

they were all purchased, when prices (even for "Gibson") were a lot more reasonable. The '61 SG reissue alone,

has gone up over a GRAND, in less than a year! Sorry, but that's NUTS!! Gouging!! SIGHHHHHHHHH!

(End of Rant!)... ;>b

 

CB

[carverman]

Everyone has this "mojo" thing' date=' for the old guitars, but in fact, there were a lot of not so great

Gibson (and everyone else) guitars, back then. Old guitars (thanks in no small part, to the Japanese)

have taken on mystical proportions, due the the "Vintage" craze, that the Japanese, in particular,

initiated, back in the early to mid '80's. Before then, you could buy ANY Gibson, Fender, Gretsch,

Ricky...whatever, for a "used guitar" price.

 

The difference, really, is original materials, NOT "workmanship!"

 

 

The materials, even..for Japan, aren't that different, if at all. In China, yeah...or Indonesia, for sure! But,

given the same materials, they'd produce identical quality...maybe even better? Who knows? Gibson,

and some other "American" companies, needs to decide if they want to sell to the public, or the Elite!

CB[/quote']

 

Well, in the late 60s, Gibson did produce some exceptional electric guitars. I remember the

Johnny Smith L5 Archtop natural with the floating neck p_up coming into our shop. It was

exquisite and the hand carved and hand tapped spruce top, made the strings acoustically

ring clear like bell. There were other examples. Perhaps on their solid bodies that wasn't

the case, but it was pretty hard to find a guitar, (well maybe a real Epiphone Deluxe or

Emperor) that would approach it in workmanship and tonal qualities.

 

Yes, I agree the original materials, carefully aged and airdried maple and old growth

Honduras mahogany had a lot to do with those guitars. Back then if Gibson

stated that the h/w was gold..it was 24K gold plated..not this asian "faux gold "(bronze..whatever)

that they flash on 3 molecules in thickness which then wears off in a matter days.

 

There's still a lot of American and some Canadian guitar companies out there that

make quality instruments, but these smaller companies and luthiers produce a very

limited amount of guitars and in some cases, you will be waiting for several months

or even a year for some models or custom made ones. All the larger outfits,

Epiphone, D'Angelico, (and maybe even Gretsch now) have asian factories pumping them

out by the thousands to keep up with demand.

 

I'm sure it's still the same way now as when I was involved with the Epiphone

dealer in the late 60s..if you don't have the stock hanging on the wall, you will (more than likely)

lose the sale. Most people want it now and not prepared to wait..especially if

it's their first guitar.

[The_Sentry]

I hate to admit this, but I ran a "taste test" with a friend last night after I had modded my Epiphone LP Standard (pictured in avatar), and I played all 3 of my Les Pauls so he could tell me how much of a difference there is (I think there's a mile of difference, but sometimes a fresh set of ears helps...)

 

 

The first guitar I played was the Gibson Les Paul Studio (center) though 2 different amps: The pictured Roland Street Performer and a Line 6 Spider II. I still feel that I was fortunate to get this guitar as they have been MD'd since I bought this, and it also plays and sounds better than other Gibson Studio models that I've managed to test out since buying this guitar.

 

The Gibson offered that deep, throaty thick tone just as it always has. The 490/498's offered up that classic crunch as well as some nifty cleans.

 

Next, I plugged in the LP Custom (left). That guitar has the SD Burstbuckers, but it doesn't have the heft of the Les Paul. (I do prefer the neck on that guitar better.) This guitar has a much brighter tone than the Gibson, which IMHO was always the big difference in terms of tone. The low end and presence isn't as powerful with these guitars, even post-upgrades. But it was a nice counterpoint, and from a lead perspective he stated that this one might not be as difficult to mix in a group environment because there's less competition on the midrange. This guitar has such a bright tone I almost consider it a segueway between the Gibson and an Ash HWY 1 Strat that I also own.

 

Finally, I plugged in the modded LP Standard plus (right) that I ended up dumping a set of Burstbucker Pros into. I don't know if it was the weight, or the looks, but for whatever reason....he stated he PREFERRED that guitar's tone (400 dollars used with some upgrades) to the Gibson. And not only did this one match in presence and low end (and I don't know why this is...it didn't before I dumped those pups in and 3 additional pounds of hardware which makes the guitar top out at around 11lbs in weight), I also had better separation between the strings when applying crunch.

 

To be fair, I'm running Burstbucker Pros in the Epi's and 490's in the Gibson. But at this point? The cheaper guitars are keeping up just fine with the more expensive guitar. Which to be honest, was the whole intention of getting into Epi's in the first place.

 

(PS: As far as archtops? I'd love to get one. But no, I am not going to spend 3000+ dollars on a mail-order mass-produced guitar which is pretty much my only option as far as Gibson goes. For that kind of money I can have someone MAKE me a guitar that will probably be more to my liking, and will probably sound better as well. Just an opinion...)

[carverman]

I hate to admit this' date=' but I ran a "taste test" with a friend last night after I had modded my Epiphone LP Standard (pictured in avatar), and I played all 3 of my Les Pauls so he could tell me how much of a difference there is (I think there's a mile of difference, but sometimes a fresh set of ears helps...)

 

[[/quote']

 

In electric solid bodies, assuming the string, action and intonation are about the same, the pickups

should be about the biggest contributors to the guitar's unique sound. Perhaps the cap values may

have some bearing on it as well, but most LPs use .022 caps.

 

So if you had a $499 Epi LP Custom with upgraded pickups and a $3300 Gibson LP Custom (not the signature series which always cost more), and the p_ups were exactly the same as the Gibson,

would you say that the sound coming out of both should be about the same too?

[The_Sentry]

 

In electric solid bodies' date=' assuming the string, action and intonation are about the same, the pickups

should be about the biggest contributors to the guitar's unique sound. Perhaps the cap values may

have some bearing on it as well, but most LPs use .022 caps.

 

So if you had a $499 Epi LP Custom with upgraded pickups and a $3300 Gibson LP Custom (not the signature series which always cost more), and the p_ups were exactly the same as the Gibson,

would you say that the sound coming out of both should be about the same too? [/quote']

 

Absoulutely not. If you're running the exact same pups, then it does come down to a question of tone woods...and even a crappy Gibson will crush most Epiphones.....

[lpdeluxe]

I own both a Gibson Les Paul Deluxe and an Epiphone Sheraton II, both with Seymour Duncans, and a good friend has a '69 Gibson ES-340, so I can compare, after a fashion.

 

The first issue is price, and Charlie Brown gave a good summary of what has happened to the price of American guitars (I have resented this development, having paid $425 for a '63 Gretsch Chet Atkins in '82 before the "vintage" nonsense came along) but that's history, and we have to deal with the real world as it is.

 

Me, I like blond ES-335 style instruments, and a Gibson is out of my reach. So, should I not play one? Not at all: to me it seems quite rational to buy the Epi -- made to Gibson's design -- and not pay the $2K+ premium. I got my Epiphone for some trading stock and $200, with a hard case; another $200 got me the Seymour Duncans and new electronics and wiring from Stewart-McDonald, before you knew it, I had a good sounding, nice playing and attractive instrument for, let's say, 1/10 the cost of a real Gibson.

 

Now, the ES-340 sounds better, but not $2K better; it also has nicely figured bird's eye wood that you can't see from the audience.

 

Would I like a real Gibson? Sure, but it's not possible.

 

The Les Paul -- I paid $750 for it -- is a different matter. I bought this old road warrior strictly on the basis of its sound. I don't even like LPs! So an Epiphone Les Paul is not something I'm tempted by...but, if I wanted the usual LP sound (mine has the mini humbuckers), I'd sure try one out. Since I'm not into flamed tops it doesn't matter that the Epi is plainer.

 

Without the insanity of the "vintage" mentality, I would own Gibsons, but that aberration in our guitar culture means that, even if I bought a nice Gibson, I would not dare modify it for fear of losing money when I sold (I included the frozen -- but original -- pots with my Gretsch when I sold it for $3100 last year because, otherwise, I would have gotten less for it. That's insane). As it is, I have a lightly modified Sheraton II that sounds good, feels good and looks good.

[carverman]

 

Absoulutely not. If you're running the exact same pups' date=' then it does come down to a question of tone woods...and even a [b']crappy Gibson will crush most Epiphones[/b].....

 

I rest my case then....

"Yur honor, it has been determined through opinion that this here Gibson

guitar surpasses the competitor's similar guitar and is worthy of the asking price."

[carverman]

I own both a Gibson Les Paul Deluxe and an Epiphone Sheraton II' date=' both with Seymour Duncans, and a good friend has a '69 Gibson ES-340, so I can compare, after a fashion.

 

The first issue is price, and Charlie Brown gave a good summary of what has happened to the price of American guitars (I have resented this development, having paid $425 for a '63 Gretsch Chet Atkins in '82 before the "vintage" nonsense came along) but that's history, and we have to deal with the real world as it is.

 

Would I like a real Gibson? Sure, but it's not possible.

 

The Les Paul -- I paid $750 for it -- is a different matter. I bought this old road warrior strictly on the basis of its sound.

Without the insanity of the "vintage" mentality, I would own Gibsons, but that aberration in our guitar culture means that, even if I bought a nice Gibson, I would not dare modify it for fear of losing money when I sold (I included the frozen -- but original -- pots with my Gretsch when I sold it for $3100 last year because, otherwise, I would have gotten less for it. That's insane). As it is, I have a lightly modified Sheraton II that sounds good, feels good and looks good.[/quote']

 

Let's put it this way..that "beat up old road warrior Gibson LP will always be worth more asking price than what

you paid for. Keep it for a few more years and you'll see what I mean. The 83 Gibson LP

Spotlight Special ..only 1100 made.is probably worth big bucks if you could even find one

for sale these days. The custom shop re-issue is around $5300..and even if you had the

dough to buy it, take care of it and play it occasionally, if you keep it mint..in a few years

it will practically double in value..as costs go up and the dollar buys less in real goods.

Look at a $20 bill these days..you can't even buy a bag of groceries today with it today,

but in the late 60s/70s and even 80s, you get get a case of beer easily and have

some serious change left over in your pocket.

 

No matter which Chinese or Korean made Epi you have (even with upgrades), you'll have a hard time getting what you paid for it on the resale market.

That's the way it is..asian made Epis are not collectors items and can't be considered an investment.

Now I don't know about this new Slash model..maybe if they don't pump out to many tens of thousands of them..but if

they do.."fugat 'bout it".

[Gashole]

I'm in agreement with the guys whose rationale is (paraphrasing here) "is a Gibson 1000.00- 2000.00 better than it's Epi counterpart? No way is it-not for any of them. They are inflated way beyond reason. I cannot deny that Gibson is superior in quality, but even speaking of stock Epi's, there's no call for so much disparity in price, beyond a very cynically flavored capitalism. Several people have made the claim in prior posts that Epi is 90% of what a Gibson is. That's gotta be pretty close to the reality, especially with he freedom to mod. ...I consider my Sheraton equal to a Gib 335 in all but wood and neck construction. With mods I'm into it for around a grand. Much less than a 335. I think it looks nicer than a 335 dot too.

 

I have only ever bought one new Gibson. I always have to buy used-they are just too expensive new. I can afford a new Epi though, a few times a year I could realistically, and turn it into the guitar I can't afford...or 90-95% of it anyway. That would get me one lower end new Gibson! I'm not interested in their stipped down Les Pauls really, since I have a very nice L.P. Classic...and my quest for the perfect SG ended with finding the SG Classic(the 5th SG I've owned)...so Gibson really doesn't hold much for me in the future, since their archtops are out of this world pricewise. My 2 EPI's are in fact archtops, 'cos Gibson's archies are just too out of reach for me. As far as "feel" is concerned, they are all so close to equal (my 3 Gibson's and 2 EP's) that I can't tell you which one plays "best". They are all "different" in feel, but each plays very well; I don't have to fight them, hold back, there's no piece I can play on one and then feel weak on another (save for some surfy stuff I'm working up that just has to be on the Wildkat).

 

As for tone, I have my favorite, the SG. But it's a photo finish, the rest are so close. My modded Sherry really has a nicer tone than the Gib Les Paul, or L6S. My Wildkat will soon get a PU upgrade that might make it my next favorite. Even though I'm not 100% happy with the stockers, I have to say I think that guitar is one of the best I've ever owned, and certainly one of the least expensive. I'm not into selling them...these are guitars for me, to be played...not necesarily investments that I expect a return on. Not that that's a bad way to go. Just not where I'm at.

[charlie brown]

Well it's an eternal debate/discussion. I LOVE Gibson guitars...that's never been the issue! BUT...to have to pay

their over-inflated prices, is beyond the pale...for me, anyway. I'd LOVE to have an ES-345, and a VOS '61 SG w/Maestro...

but come on...3 Grand each! LOL!! Maybe, I'll get lucky, and win the lottery, or find some poor soul that has to sell his

guitars to buy food, gasoline, or pay one health insurance premium, and can buy his/her guitar. Otherwise, it will be damn

difficult to justify that kind of expenditure, on any ONE guitar. Maybe "Gibson" needs to have a "Gibson" that's made in China, for us pee ons, and can then concentrate on the "Collectors" or "Rock Star" buyers? LOL!

 

Sorry...another Rant! ;>)

 

CB

[NeoConMan]

I guess I better sell off all my Gibsons NOW before the whole world figures out the Epi is just as good.

When all the Gibson owners find out they've been swindled by paying 3 times as much for inferior American tone woods and electronics, the values will collapse. I'll be out $15,000 overnight.

 

Jeez....

 

I've owned a few Epiphones over the years, the construction was decent for the money.

Pots and switchgear is another subject - and often, the Gibson pieces won't fit without modification.

 

Several friends over the years have bought an Epi, either for themselves or their kid.

I can't tell you how many of them I've installed Gibson or aftermarket electronics in - just to make the guitar work AT ALL!

 

 

Haven't had that trouble in any of the Gibsons I've owned over 15 years, with the exception of one volume pot.

[BluezOldy]

... No matter which Chinese or Korean made Epi you have (even with upgrades)' date=' you'll have a hard time getting what you paid for it on the resale market.

That's the way it is..asian made Epis are not collectors items and can't be considered an investment...

[/quote']

 

That's what was once said about the Japanese knock-offs back in the 80s. With the rising standard of living in China, Chinese-made brand-name guitars will be out of the reach of many of today's market in the not too distant future.

 

In the past couple of years, I've sold a few Japanese guitars made in the 80s and 90s for many times what they originally cost.

 

I would be surprised if the now-discontinued Elitists don't rise in value in the next few years.

[Dave]

I bought my Gibson LP Studio new back in 92 for $500. Even then, a used, scratched up LP standard was around $900. Now, that same studio sells for around $1100 new. I could easily get $800 for the Studio, since it has been out of the house only a limited number of times and doesn't have a scratch on it. It's stock and the gold hardware looks like the day it was made. It's an investment that will continue to increase in value.

 

After mods, I have around $850 in my Epi Lp Custom Flametop. I would have trouble getting what I have in it back out today. Most people would just go buy a new one for $599, but I won't sell it because it is my number one guitar and it plays and sounds like a Custom Shop Gibson.

 

My dentist has a collection of Martins. He can afford to plunk down big bucks for acoustics. but I still prefer my Alvarez.

 

The money I saved is going toward paying off the mortgage so I can retire and play more....GRIN!

[carverman]

 

That's what was once said about the Japanese knock-offs back in the 80s. With the rising standard of living in China' date=' Chinese-made brand-name guitars will be out of the reach of many of today's market in the not too distant future.

 

In the past couple of years, I've sold a few Japanese guitars made in the 80s and 90s for many times what they originally cost.

 

I would be surprised if the now-discontinued Elitists don't rise in value in the next few years.[/quote']

 

Ok, you have a point about the Elitists. I have a "used" Broadway and it is very well made. Since Elitists

are no longer made, I suppose it would be worth a lot more than I paid for it to someone who is interested

in a big archtop like that...maybe even a collector. Certainly today, the Japanese made guitars, some of which

are limited production (Like my $2300 Takamine Hirade classic) are very good quality and will be worth at

least as much as what I paid for it..but the general factory production units, produced in the tens of thousands

may not fetch the price in the future, that you paid for it today. It's the law of supply and demand..if they ain't

making them anymore..they can be considered "scarce" and the asking price goes up accordingly.

 

The Elitists certainly live up to the quality of the Epiphones made by Gibson back in the 60s when they

were produced in Kalamazoo. The only difference would be the labour component.

[lpdeluxe]

 

Let's put it this way..that "beat up old road warrior Gibson LP will always be worth more asking price than what

you paid for. Keep it for a few more years and you'll see what I mean. The 83 Gibson LP

Spotlight Special ..only 1100 made.is probably worth big bucks if you could even find one

for sale these days. The custom shop re-issue is around $5300..and even if you had the

dough to buy it' date=' take care of it and play it occasionally, if you keep it mint..in a few years

it will practically double in value..as costs go up and the dollar buys less in real goods.

Look at a $20 bill these days..you can't even buy a bag of groceries today with it today,

but in the late 60s/70s and even 80s, you get get a case of beer easily and have

some serious change left over in your pocket.

 

No matter which Chinese or Korean made Epi you have (even with upgrades), you'll have a hard time getting what you paid for it on the resale market.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Excuse me, that collector's mentality is exactly what I was ranting about. As a musician, not a collector, I'm interested in the utility of the instrument. In the case of the Epi, since I've got so little into it, I'll always recoup my "investment." Again, as a PLAYER, it's more important to me to have in my hands a guitar I can afford than to pine after some unobtainable pur sang.

 

To repeat what I've said before, I've owned some pretty nice gits, but they are mostly all gone because they didn't function very well as tools. If you doubt me, go gig with a Chet Atkins Country Gent and report back!

 

Edit to make less disputatious:D

 

I've got these arguments down pretty good because I've been carrying on this debate with a good friend with the opposite point of view for what, almost 27 years now! So we get together and work up songs, and argue about Made in USA vs Made in Korea, and on and on, and the only thing we've settled is that he's a better bass player and I'm a better harp player.

[OutoftheBlues]

I own two Gibson's - a Les Paul Standard and a Flying V and three Epi's - a Sheraton a Dot and a Firebird V. I am a gigging musician and I prefer to play the Gibsons in the gigs. The Epiphones cannot match my Gibson's tone and playability and the Gibsons do not continually detune like the Epi's during a 3 to 4 hour gig. Now, I love my Natural Sheraton and play it when rehearsing new stuff, my Dot just doesn't hold up at all in live settings and I'm letting that go. The Firebird looks good and sounds good after I moded the electronics but will only stay in tune for about two songs, think I try some of those locking tuners epi uses. I'll probably replace the Dot with a used ES-335 for our live performances.

[Nic]

I own two Gibson's - a Les Paul Standard and a Flying V and three Epi's - a Sheraton a Dot and a Firebird V. I am a gigging musician and I prefer to play the Gibsons in the gigs. The Epiphones cannot match my Gibson's tone and playability and the Gibsons do not continually detune like the Epi's during a 3 to 4 hour gig. Now' date=' I love my Natural Sheraton and play it when rehearsing new stuff, my Dot just doesn't hold up at all in live settings and I'm letting that go. The Firebird looks good and sounds good after I moded the electronics but will only stay in tune for about two songs, think I try some of those locking tuners epi uses. I'll probably replace the Dot with a used ES-335 for our live performances. [/quote']

 

You must be playing those guitars very aggresively. I'm not sure I understand how one guitar would go out of tune faster than another. Are the tuners slipping? Please educate me.

[charlie brown]

The tuning issue, sounds more like a deffective "nut," than tuners.

Unless there is a real "neck" problem, where it moves a lot...I'd say check the nut,

make sure things aren't binding? As someone in a previous thread said...if it "pings,"

when you tune, that's a dead give-away, for strings binding in the nut. They will, often,

go "sharp," too...when they do that. Anyway...Just a thought...

 

CB